MS Finding Of Fact Out!

Friday November 5th, 1999

District Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson's finding of fact in the antitrust case arrived today at 6:30pm EST.

Talk about it now at #mozillazine at (you can use our Java IRC client from our chat page). If you want, give us your email address (in the chat - not in our forum) and we'll send the PDF of the finding to you (we're not going to post it to the website). Thanks to Marko Karppinen and Rahul Dave for the PDF.

#1 MS Finding Of Fact Out!

by thelem

Friday November 5th, 1999 4:38 PM

I can confirm is it out and avaliable for download. Unfortunatly the servers are not responding (this I tried no more than 10 seconds after it had been released and I am still trying 10 minutes later). . Lemming

#2 Get yr PDF

by Anon

Friday November 5th, 1999 4:56 PM

#3 HTML Download

by thelem

Friday November 5th, 1999 6:28 PM

You can now download the HTML version of the findings from

I will be looking at the bandwidth and may take it down if it gets too busy, check for replies.

It is 119k, less than half the size of the PDF.

#4 Microsoft is getting spanked!!

by dneighbors

Friday November 5th, 1999 8:11 PM

Its about time. This judge has his game on! Although the appeal process is going to drag out forever, this does hurt Microsoft. Let the class action suits begin!!!! If Win2000 delays more and is unstable as usual this could be great news for Linux and Mozilla both!!!

Open Source Rocks.

#5 MS Finding Of Fact Out!

by Anon

Friday November 5th, 1999 8:19 PM

How about this for "punishment" for MS. No new products can be sold until existing products Excel97, Windows 95/98 are debugged to an acceptable level. < 1 crash per day ???

#6 Write to congress and the senate!

by Anon

Friday November 5th, 1999 8:41 PM

Want to pull a prank on Microsoft? Go to Microsoft's Freedom to Innovate site and send a letter to congress and the senate! That's right! Send a letter in support of the DOJ!!!

#7 Been there, done that, HEHE

by gerbilpower

Friday November 5th, 1999 9:19 PM

That's exactly what I did when the news of MS's so called "Freedom to Innovate" site popped up on Slashdot.

Today is happy day, I got the model kit I ordered online and MS got whipped.


#8 MS Finding Of Fact Out!

by KaiRo

Saturday November 6th, 1999 3:46 AM

Throw down MS actions on the internet! I hope MS will be punished for this overrunnig of the leading browser software. I don't want to explore all the internet, not knowing where I want to go today. I just want to communicate, to navigate to the sites I want 'cause I know where I want to surf today. So let MS bleed for what they've done.

On the other hand, would have Mozilla gone this way without MSIE becoming bigger aand bigger? I don't know. Who cares, it's like it is.

Go Mozilla! To boldly browse like no one has browsed before...

#9 MS Finding Of Fact Out!

by zontar

Saturday November 6th, 1999 8:35 AM

I went to the M$ site to check out their response, and saw the "Freedom To Innovate" pages as well... When I saw the logo they're using, I laughed so hard I damn near choked.

I've had the chance to read a good-sized chunk of Judge Jackson's finding, and I have to say that this guy has really done his homework.

M$ should offer to settle ASAP, but I'm betting it'll try to drag out the inevitable for as long as possible.

I hope this turn of events will help inspire the Mozilla developers -- since it now looks like there may be better chance of getting their final product out to the MSIE-inundated public.

#10 MS Finding Of Fact Out!

by Kovu

Saturday November 6th, 1999 1:16 PM

The funny thing is (Kairo) that I agree, Mozilla may have been the direct result of M$s assault on Netscape, and the fact that AOL now owns Netscape may well be something M$ will live to regret. However, it was shown that N$ would have brought no-M$ APIs to the entire industry but for M$, that could then have let Sun really accomplish the "write once run anywhere" thing, and M$ has been shown to have successfully murdered that potential for four years, and that's just so far. AOL will use IE through 2000, it looks like, so Mozilla will have to bash away at the rest of the IE market with no help from the AOL brand, at least not yet.

However, that doesn't mean their won't be Moz versions for ICQ and Compuserve, perhaps, and AOL has already discussed a Netscape Online ISP to go with NS5.0, so minus the AOL brand, AOL actually has pretty big plans for NS, it looks like.

#11 YES!!

by arielb

Sunday November 7th, 1999 12:04 AM

we have a chance now! Judge Jackson agreed with everything basically

#12 MS Finding Of Fact Out!

by Kovu

Sunday November 7th, 1999 12:21 AM

I like how most of the "anti-trust analysts" said that they expected the judge to "give" M$ concessions to promote settlement. $*#@ that! Hose 'em, baby! Break the swine up! I must say, it was worth the wait seeing Gates sniveling on national TV. :) ROAST, M$, ROAST

#13 OK.

by jonde

Sunday November 7th, 1999 3:31 AM

This is what we've all been waiting for! Let's blow m$ big time. I can't wait to see what happens to m$. I hope it's something that really hurts!

#14 Illegal operation

by Anon

Sunday November 7th, 1999 12:39 PM

"This company has performed an illegal operation and must be shut down. If the problem persists, contact your DOJ administrator." ;-)

#15 LOL!!! n/t

by Anon

Sunday November 7th, 1999 1:13 PM


#16 What the punishment should be

by Anon

Sunday November 7th, 1999 1:19 PM

I think the best and simplest solution is for Microsoft to be required to release the source code for all versions of Windows from 3.1 to the present and also for the next five years or so. IE should be included since it is part of the operating system (right Microsoft?).

It could be released in plain text and MSFT could still hold the copyright to prevent piracy. This would put all application providers on a level playing field by exposing all hidden API's and also allowing third parties to fix bugs instead of just MSFT. It would be interesting to see what is REALLY hidden in the OS code.

#17 The hidden things.

by FrodoB

Sunday November 7th, 1999 1:47 PM

I don't know C, so this probably isn't even close, but I think you'll get the point.... ;)

if (date >= 1995) { Windows.version = 4.0; print "Windows 95"; } else if (date >= 1996) { Windows.version = 4.01; print "Windows 95 OSR1"; } else if (date >= 1997) { Windows.version = 4.02; print "Windows 95 OSR2"; } else if (date >= 1998) { Windows.version = 4.1; print "Windows 98"; } else if (date >= 1999) { Windows.version = 4.11; print "Windows 98 Second Edition"; } else if (date >= 2000) { Windows.version = 5.0; print "Windows 2000"; }

Application.quit("Fatal error. You have installed Windows.");


#18 The hidden things.

by FrodoB

Sunday November 7th, 1999 1:49 PM

Ok, ok, the formatting sucked on that. Aargh!

#19 What the punishment should be

by stoecker

Sunday November 7th, 1999 5:08 PM

They would surely (try to, if time is short) remove the critical (read: "evil and unofficial not documented, anti-competition-code") parts that are officially NOT in the system before rekleasing the code... *grmpfl*

#21 Removing the evil bits

by Anon

Sunday November 7th, 1999 9:36 PM

If they remove the evil bits, the compiled product will not be the same. If we want an enforceable ruling, all we need to do is insist that they release all materials necessary for a reasonably skilled software developer to exactly duplicate the Windows distributions using common industry tools (VC++). Then we do a binary diff on the result.

#20 Kovu's Saturday Post

by zontar

Sunday November 7th, 1999 7:22 PM

"What goes around, comes around."

'Nuff said. :-)

#22 But Mozilla needs to get out there

by bfay

Tuesday November 9th, 1999 5:01 PM

We need a Mozilla release very soon. Many friends and several businesses I know are switching to IE or thinking about it because 4.x crashes way too often.

I'm not trolling here--I'm a diehard Netscape fan--but Mozilla needs to release soon or the battle may be lost before it even begins.

By the way, where is the milestone schedule at I have the damnest time finding it.