MozillaZine

First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

Saturday October 23rd, 1999

A number of you may have seen newsgroup posts of a new "skin" coming to Mozilla shortly. The design team has been hard at work, and they are planning on landing the new skin early next week. We haven't heard if it will appear in the nightlies at that point, but we'll keep you posted.

Before we get to showing you the new skin, we'll warn you up front that it's not yet in a final state, and any glaring errors are probably being worked on at this very moment.

That said, we have a screenshot of the browser window, and a shot of the address book. Notice the curved ends of the splitter bars and how the address book's toolbar blends into the address list. Also of note is the search button inside the URL bar on the browser screenshot.

There's a lot to see here, and it's sorta hard to come to a conclusion from just a screenshot of in-process work, so I think I'll hold off judgement until I see a final polished version in action...


#1 new skin

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 2:14 PM

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I don't know what this skin will be used for - Netscape final release, an alternative look to show that Mozilla can look like ANYTHING, Mozilla default skin, Mozilla secondary skin - but what I know *I* will use will look something like these skins:

<http://misery.subnet.at/skins/phong.html>

<http://misery.subnet.at/skins/battleangel.html>

#2 Re: new skin

by wheezy

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 2:37 PM

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damn. those skins remind me of kai's power tools... good stuff. perhaps that ought to be on the xptoolkit's todo list :)

#57 New Skin?

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 11:10 PM

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O dear. This can't be happening. I do love the old skin. Help!

#37 new skin

by arielb

Sunday October 24th, 1999 1:35 AM

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I don't think XUL can do non-rectangular windows.

#40 new skin

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 7:34 AM

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I wasn't talking about non-rectangular windows. I was talking about cool, sexy, chrome, high-tech looking metallic type of skins.

#65 skinners

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 7:35 AM

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maybe skinners like misery (also a favorite ;) and $teven will get on board with mozilla...that would really blow the other browsers out of the water...

#3 New Skin

by megaloB <megalob@jps.net>

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 2:40 PM

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As long as the finished product retains the ability to be skinned to death ala winamp, I don't really mind what the chrome around mozilla should look like. But, in it's defense, it has a spacey look that works good for "cutting edge, next generation, <insert buzzword>" software.

#4 Thats nice, but...

by Dan6992

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 2:44 PM

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Well that's real creative and all, but if they expect a smooth transition from Netscape 4.x to Mozilla then they better revert to a more triditional interface that uses the users system colors, font prefs, etc. Maybe they should offer a triditional interface as default, then make a dialog that allows the user to switch dinamicly between some predefined interfaces or one of their choosing.

#5 Thats nice, but...

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 2:56 PM

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I agree 100%.. The default should be very conservative and 4.x like. Soft serious (professional) looking colors like dark greens and blues, white and black. No pink, violet, neon light blue, yellow stuff..

There should probably be some REALLY radical secondary skin just to show that you can change the skin to ANYTHING.

By the way, what's with those double scrollbars in the sidebar? Those are not going to remain like that - right? right?

#11 Thats nice, but...

by MattyT <matty@box.net.au>

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 4:29 PM

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> By the way, what's with those double scrollbars in the sidebar? > Those are not going to remain like that - right? right?

See <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8034> .

#16 Mozilla's skin isn't Netscape's

by Kovu <Kovu401@netscape.net>

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 5:26 PM

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Bear in mind that this is for Mozilla, not Netscape, which (I believe) they said may come with two skins - one traditional, and one to show off the capabilities of the new UI standards. Neither one, I'm quite sure, will be this one. I personally like that color blue, though I can hardly wait until they come up with real buttons and a new toolbar. That one in the bottom left is pre drab.

#6 Neat, but I can't say I like it...

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 2:59 PM

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I think experimenting with unusual designs is great to get some new ideas and break out of the old boring patterns.

Hopefully the final version will use some of the ideas, but settle down to something more attractive.

#7 I like it.

by ERICmurphy <murphye@gmail.com>

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 3:44 PM

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I think it has a lot of potential. You guys dream of something like one of those wild Linux themes, but get real, most people just want something that is useable and look decent, including me.

Thanks for posting this!

#8 Eugene Savitsky

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 4:07 PM

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Thats awfull!!! Is this software for kids? Why don't enclude flowers??? By default should be some more traditionaly interface.

#9 New Skin

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 4:09 PM

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The new skin looks great. While you're at it, I would like to see a "New Message" button on the Browser window. I personally hate to load the 'Messenger' and then click another button just to create a message. John Gutierrez, San Jose CA.

#13 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by luch

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 5:14 PM

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Well, this isn't the good place at all for submitting browser ideas! If you really want to give your idea then submit it as a feature in bugzilla (<http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/>)

#14 wrong link

by luch

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 5:16 PM

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#28 New Message

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 8:34 PM

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Until then, you can just hit Ctrl-M to create a new message. Or at least go File->New->Message.

#10 Eugene Savitsky

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 4:10 PM

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Are you kidding? Thats awfull for serious product!!! Is this software for kids????

By default should be some more traditionaly interface.

#12 Start Trek

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 4:41 PM

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Someone was watching a little too much star trek. Just make it yellow and orange :)

#17 Yellow and orange? YUCK n/t

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 5:28 PM

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n/t

#47 Re: Yellow and orange

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 2:32 PM

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I wasn't saying that I liked yellow and orange... I was just saying it would look more like the ones in star terk (Which I personally hate)

#15 Choose the Mozilla skin in a competition!!!

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 5:23 PM

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Please... open up the choice of the default Mozilla skin by creating a public competition, much like the competition where we choose the throbber icon. This way, we can ensure that the skin that pleases the MOST people is included with Mozilla. This skin, created by Netscape, should only be one choice in the competition. In a democratic way, by harnessing the huge and diverse population of the Internet, we can create a GREAT browser using this process. This is a very important part of Mozilla, where even people without software development skills can make a most valuable contribution.

#23 Choose the Mozilla skin in a competition!!!

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 7:50 PM

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MozillaZine readers should vote for which skin is used.

#30 But....

by FrodoB

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 9:09 PM

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mozillaZine users don't encompass every single person who uses Mozilla (granted, it's likely the majority, but...).

Personally, I want to see a good conservative (Netscapish) skin ship as the default, and if you want something more brazant, you can make it yourself, have someone else make it for you, etc. I personally plan on making a skin for my college and maybe one around a Tolkien theme. :)

#31 But....

by FrodoB

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 9:10 PM

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mozillaZine users don't encompass every single person who uses Mozilla (granted, it's likely the majority, but...).

Personally, I want to see a good conservative (Netscapish) skin ship as the default, and if you want something more brazant, you can make it yourself, have someone else make it for you, etc. I personally plan on making a skin for my college and maybe one around a Tolkien theme. :)

#18 Netscape Navigator 3.0

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 5:58 PM

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Personally my favorite "look and feel" for a browser is that of Netscpae Navigator 3.0 (Windows 95 version). How about a skin like that?

#19 Netscape Navigator 3.0

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 6:02 PM

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Personally my favorite "look and feel" for a browser is that of Netscpae Navigator 3.0 (Windows 95 version). How about a skin like that?

#20 Meesa Like It

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 6:06 PM

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I like it! It kinda resembles the MetampMorphosis skin I use in Winamp all the time but could use some more varied colors.

Well as long as the skin doesn't made up of nothing but squares and rectangles, I'm bound to like it. Change is good.

#21 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 6:14 PM

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Shouldn't there be a "go" button on the right of the location/URL button? Not that netscape currently has one, but I think newcomers from AOL and IE expect to have to hit a button after everything, so maybe put it there so it's more intuitive for them?

#22 Yikes!

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 7:40 PM

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Is that supposed to be beatiful? Well the addressbook isn't that bad, but the browser window? No way. I prefer it being small and simple without unnecessary text and stuff. Something like the default in the milestones.

That idea about a competition is great.

-Donatzsky

#24 Impressive!

by Ben_Goodger

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 7:50 PM

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I think this is an impressive demonstration of what can be done with Mozilla. If you don't like it, the beauty of XPToolkit is that you can change it. I doubt personally whether the nscp version will ship with anything so daring as default, but I'd expect to see stuff like this amongst the options on install, and available afterwards!

Good work!

#25 Hold off on the contest

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 7:59 PM

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I would hold off on the contest until all of the xul code is settled down. There isn't even a nice function to switch interfaces yet.

If you make a skin now, it will probably be messed up when the final one comes out. IMO its better to let the guys who are programming the xul/js to design it for now. When the beta or just before the final comes out, thats when you have the contest for the best design.

#35 Contest is possible now

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 9:46 PM

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To hold a contest you don't have to have XUL complete. You just need people to design one or two concept pictures (like what we have available for the new Netscape skin already <http://www.mozillazine.or…enshots/image/Browser.gif>), and let MozillaZine readers choose from among the alternatives. I'm sure people can come up with something insanely great!!!

#26 What about skins for Windows

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 8:19 PM

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It's kind of strange that there are more skins for Mac are posted than those for Windows considering that there are more Windows users than Mac users.

#27 skins are XP

by Ben_Goodger

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 8:30 PM

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this skin looks identical on windows, skins are simply defined in CSS/XUL/and gifs etc, so they're rendered by nglayout identically across platforms (with the exception of platform-specific parts)

#29 What about skins for Windows

by wheezy

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 9:08 PM

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one question, and i don't mean to be rude: do you have any idea what you're talking about?

#34 Maybe...

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 9:26 PM

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I suspect the poster either: 1. Was looking at the scroll bars/frame of the window and assuming only that platform could use the skin/chrome/xul. 2. Meant that the skins that are available are more mac-ish than windows-ish... ie, follow mac conventions more. Just a possibility.

#56 Yes, I do

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 11:04 PM

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I'm sorry for not being clear enough. I meant snapshots, not skins. Majority of snapshots I've seen were taken on Mac's. It's kind of difficult to judge a UI idea by looking at a snapshot taken on a different OS.

#67 Does it matter which OS?

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday October 25th, 1999 10:37 AM

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XUL is cross-platform, just imagine the surrounding border as a gawd-ugly Windoze one and you'll do just fine :)

#72 Well, in a way...yes

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 11:56 AM

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Gerbil, I use Windows and although *I* already realize that XUL is cross-platform (woo-hoo!), I think that until some longtime Netscape users are familiar with the technology in the upcoming browser there should be screenshots of what those skins will look like on the various Mozilla platforms. (At least for now.)

True, there won't be much of a difference really but I just think that more "picture proof" would help in clearing the confusion.

"Url"

#74 Neutral screenshots maybe?

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday October 25th, 1999 12:34 PM

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I use Windows also, quite regretfully 8P

Probably better just to cut off the borders in the screen shots since that's the key thing that immediately reveals what OS the screenshot was taken in. That would make some people happier and prevent confusion with those who don't know yet that XUL is cross-platform.

<:3)~~

#101 re:Neutral screenshots maybe?

by Anon

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 4:12 PM

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Sure, that's another option too... Something to help avoid "the win/mac skin" confusion. Alas, I can't download a copy of the latest build to check out the new skin this time - I had to sell my pc for $$ last month *sniff* , but I'm definitely planning to build a new computer in time to have fun with the Navigator 5 beta. =oP

- Url

#32 Windgets/Scrollbars

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 9:24 PM

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Why is it that the address book uses the native Mac widgets and scroll bars while the browser does not?

I like the native look better, it just seems more "complete" somehow.

Mike S.

#33 Widgets/Scrollbars

by Anon

Saturday October 23rd, 1999 9:25 PM

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Why is it that the address book uses the native Mac widgets and scroll bars while the browser does not?

I like the native look better, it just seems more "complete" somehow.

Mike S.

PS. Appologies if this gets repost, I noticed a typo before it appeared to complete the send.

#36 first glimpse

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 12:49 AM

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Check out this:

<http://homepages.ihug.co.…~rgoodger/lizard/sbar.gif>

Cool eh? Nice colors, nice small icons, nice spacing around things.. It looks CORRECT - unlike things in the current Mozilla. Now look at this:

<http://homepages.ihug.co.…dger/lizard/messenger.gif>

Same thing again. The spacing is right (except for the icons in "what's related"), the icons are good, the grippies are cool, the table headinds look like table headings..

Again.. Professional looking. This time, it's the mail composer:

<http://homepages.ihug.co.…er/lizard/mailcompose.GIF>

Excellent work rgoodger!

#39 first glimpse

by Ben_Goodger

Sunday October 24th, 1999 3:05 AM

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as my lizard folder lacks explanation of its contents, here are some brief notes:

the sidebar one was actually a hack of something chrisn posted to either m.xpfe or m.ui (I can't remember exactly which), IIRC.

The second is an example of some of the changes I've made to skin.css etc., to make Mozilla look a little more like 4.x

the third is, sadly, only a graphics hack (like the sidebar one), but an idea of what should be possible when XPToolkit bugs even out, and widgets start to look like the ones linked off the xpfe page.

#41 first glimpse

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 7:37 AM

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Oh, I know.. I meant that it showed what it should / could look like. I didn't mean it as "look, this guy has already implemented it".

I remember seeing a sidebar DHTML (IE5 only I think) demo which was kicking ass and taking names. It showed how the thing could work with just one scrollbar. Does anyone know where it's now?

In any case, I'm confident that we'll see hundreds if not thousands of cool skins (and even more fugly ones) like for Winamp now, but it will take some time..

#45 first glimpse

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 1:35 PM

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This link shows how the sidebar can be done with one scrollbar:

<http://home.wxs.nl/~gerviss/sidebar.htm>

I don't know if you ment this one.

Sjoerd Visscher

#46 Wrong link

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 2:29 PM

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It should be

<http://home.wxs.nl/~gerviss/sidebar/sidebar.htm>

Btw: It is not yet possible to do this with mozilla.

#87 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 7:44 PM

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Too bad the message compose was only a graphic hack. I thought some body has already fixed all my bugs :-)

Jean-Francois Ducarroz ( I lost my loggin again!)

#43 wow

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 1:02 PM

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looks VERY nice! how long till something looking this nice hits the nightly builds?

#38 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 1:36 AM

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I actually prefer the current skin over the new one. There is certainly room for improvement in the current one (as seen in rgoodger's work), and people have been improving it for some time. I certainly would not want the proposed new one to become the Mozilla default. It might be a nice alternate one to showcase XUL though.

#42 New Skin

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 7:46 AM

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I hope all those skin standards will get finsished some time. This new skin seems a good basis to set up a Star Trek "LCARS" skin like I'm trying to do since a long time.

#44 Star Lizard

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 1:33 PM

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Mmmm. . .LCARS Mozilla skin. I really like the sound of that - I've been dreaming about a Star Trek browser skin for awhile now, so I will 2nd that. :)

#48 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 4:02 PM

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No offence, but has NeoPlanet ever been criticised for it's 'daring' UI design? I have yet to see s single critisim twards smoother designs. I see this UI as Mozilla's interface attempting to catch up with the technology under it's hood. I do see problems with this theme, such as the apparent loss of a personal toolbar and a relatively small button count; however, these problems seem small in contrast with it's possibilities. BTW, has anyone here ever used Star Office, M$ Office, or (to a MUCH lesser extent) IE 5? I love the flexibility and adaptability of customizable toolbars and (,in the case of Star Office,) a simple UI for configuring search engines (EX for Moz: having a dialog to add & subtract entries in Mozilla's awesome new search system) and believe that both systems will have a deffinite place in the not-too-far-off future.

Sincerely yours, ERIIX

#49 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Sunday October 24th, 1999 5:04 PM

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I'm pretty much into anything that has to do with design so I love the idea of skinning Mozilla. You do bring up a few good points, but that's the challenge of creating an aesthetically appealing skin and one that is also scalable enough to add custom goodies on it. I hardly ever customize my toolbars since I, oddly, like typing in my URLs by hand instead of bookmarking them and sorting them. Same with other programs since I like to hot-key everything! <:3)~~

#51 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 5:39 PM

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I just want a plain skin that works well, fits in with the rest of my OS, and behaves as you would expect. This skin does not fit those criteria. You guys that want arty skins will have plenty of opportunity to download them or create new ones later.

In the end the only way to find the right Mozilla skin to present to the world is to put it to a vote.

#54 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by Ben_Goodger

Sunday October 24th, 1999 10:11 PM

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Yes, but NeoPlanet is a NICHE product. Mozilla will eventually become the thing that ISPs give you on their setup CDs, and be distributed on OS install disks. Skins aren't for everyone, (thinking of grandma here), and while I maintain that skins should be available for those that want them (I even want several really good ones bundled with Mozilla), the default should still be a generic one that matches the user's OS. Inside Macintosh states that applications should "maintain the spirit of the Apple Desktop Interface." This is because people learn new apps by adapting their knowledge of existing ones. people who are experienced in using computers may find skinnable software enjoyable, as they can figure out what everything is, but there are people out there who have enough difficulty running Netscape 3.x/4.x *without* skins.

Side notes, relating to things I've seen here, and in other posts in this thread: 1) the personal toolbar appears to have moved above the navigation toolbar.

2) the goal in Mozilla is to keep the button count down. Netscape 4.x is somewhat of a mess of buttons, none of which you can remove (in WinFE anyway, I hear its possible in XFE). A simpler, less obtrusive UI is best, as it allows the user to focus on viewing webpages, not using the software. (I am a fan of full screen browsing, too)

3) I certainly support a competition/vote for secondary skins. But the default one, as I say, should always be one which matches the user's system and looks like a standard app. (btw: non-neutral schemes have a tendency to date, and aside from the issues with beginners or basic users, many people may simply not like the skin chosen by vote)

#50 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by thelem

Sunday October 24th, 1999 5:18 PM

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I personally think that the beta should be released with the homepage set to a beta-specific site. On this site would be basic information about Mozilla and a contest where anybody could post their skins. Then, at the closing date there would be a public vote for the best 50 or so skins. That way you should get lots of skins and the format should not change significantly.

#52 Why are the screenshots GIFs?

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 8:46 PM

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Here is a picture of our brand new <insert thing> We've made it available as a GIF because (a) We iz kewl web doodz, GIFs iz rad! (b) Unisys Who? What Patent? (c) PNG images are too small, you might lose them down the back of the sofa (d) Mozilla can't read PNGs -- I know (d) isn't right, so MozillaZine editor(s), which of the above is it?

#53 Why are the screenshots GIFs?

by Dan6992

Sunday October 24th, 1999 9:21 PM

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How about the fact that not everyone who visits MozillaZine is using Mozilla!!! I still use Netscape 4.04 as my main browser and it can't read PNGs very well (crashes, fails to display, etc...), and earlier versions couldn't read them at all. You may wonder why I still use 4.04, well it's simple I'm to lazy to upgrade to 4.5 and Mozilla is still to buggy to use on a regular basis. Face it for now there are still to many lagacy browsers in use for any site to use PNGs on a regualr basis.

#55 4.7, not 4.5

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 10:49 PM

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You're not keeping up-to-date. The newest version is 4.7

#58 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by stephan <stephan@micropop.com>

Sunday October 24th, 1999 11:35 PM

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Besides the fact that the new skin confuses me (the silver/white background colours on different parts of the screen, which I guess will be fixed), there will probably be a lot of novice IE5 users entering a URL and clicking on Search afterwards. The search function (which is a good thing) will of course auto detect URLs, right?

#59 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by stephan <stephan@micropop.com>

Sunday October 24th, 1999 11:38 PM

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Besides the fact that the new skin confuses me (the silver/white background colours on different parts of the screen, which I guess will be fixed), there will probably be a lot of novice IE5 users entering a URL and clicking on Search afterwards. The search function (which is a good thing) will of course auto detect URLs, right?

#105 Search button

by Anon

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 8:11 PM

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what if you want to search for a url? You might want to see all the pages with links to yours.

#60 it's ok ...

by ihxo

Sunday October 24th, 1999 11:38 PM

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I don't really like it, but it's ok. do anyone remember that Netscape Netcaster ?? It totally defined by javascript and HTML, I think it's the coolest UI I've ever seen. Will some of those people that made netcaster work on Mozilla ? I think they really need some artist there.

#61 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 11:49 PM

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The browser skin looks horrable, it looks like NEO Planet browser default skin. You people need to have something that looks good, after you are convincing user to switch from IE. The idea of having skins for users to choose they own is good, but you need a good looking default skin. The one you have is no good.

#68 Opinions, opinions . . .

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday October 25th, 1999 10:40 AM

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Some like it, some don't, and that's where the wonders of skinning comes in handy since you can pick a skin of your choice, or make your own, and we're all happy!

Obviously not everyone is going to be satisfied by any skin, and the default skin should be something unelaborate and simple.

<:3)~~

#62 The old Navigator ship wheel

by Anon

Sunday October 24th, 1999 11:58 PM

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OK, I'm at a loss for some reason as to what the steering wheel on a ship is called, but why is this in the Mozilla skin? That was an icon for Netscape's Navigator browser. I think that the taskbar icon for a new browser window should be something much more generic, just as the envelope is generic for accessing my mail.

#85 We need a new icon

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 7:17 PM

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I agree that the wheel is out of place in mozilla. What about having a small 'zilla picture as the icon. Or maybe just an "M". Something that goes with the theme of mozilla.

#106 We need a new icon

by Anon

Wednesday October 27th, 1999 5:39 AM

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I agree...It needs its own icon. I think it should be the Mozilla character.

#63 No thanks!

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 5:36 AM

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Way too mac-ish to my tastes but does it matter when we can change the skins at will? Or if not there is always WindowBlinds =)

#64 Very nice

by leafdigital

Monday October 25th, 1999 7:07 AM

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Very nice: professional and serious-looking and clearly "designed" rather than "thrown together" as the current skin.

It also has a "clean" look suggesting "serious tool for busy professionals" - this isn't an idiot-user skin (see lack of text equivalents on icons, lack of "go" button, etc.) but the very clean look with just four buttons is great.

The only "glaring" problem I noticed (apart from e.g. text vertical position, etc.) is the "M" throbber which is ugly as hell (it's not too bad alone, though not great, but it doesn't go with the new skin at all...). Hopefully they will re-make it with a nice circular one to match those buttons. :)

One other worry is that it might not quite be colour-neutral enough: it will probably look bad with some websites, whereas the abundance of grey in Netscape/IE is fairly safe there...

--sam

#66 Tips...

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 8:15 AM

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I like it. But the buttons (back, stop, etc) should be smaller. More subtle, less obstructive.

As for those who complain that it's too Mac-ish, get real!

#69 Tips...

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday October 25th, 1999 10:43 AM

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Although probably no one else is going to care, I use a PC most of the time and I've always hated the Windoze interface. I've always found it ugly, even when changing the colors and fonts around I still find it an eye sore. I like how the Mac interface look a lot better.

Chang is good, Go Mozilla!

<:3)~~

#81 PC Interface...

by Dan6992

Monday October 25th, 1999 5:27 PM

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The Windows interface is not set in stone, it's just a convention that developers use to make things consistant. Lots of developers have written software packages that radicaly stray from the conventional Windows interface, for example <http://www.tucows.com/images/herd/3dftp.gif> The conventional Windows interface is used by comercial software developers, because without a standard interface PC newcommers would be confused and would spend alot more time learning/cursing their computers.

#83 yupyup

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday October 25th, 1999 6:33 PM

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Yeah I know, consistency is an important element in interface design, bring a web designer I should be very aware of that. But I just commented that I think that the Windoze look and feel could be a lot better, from a design point of view I just think it's just darn ugly.

A better designed interface that's consistent across the board is what I want with a few radical exceptions here and there :)

<:3)~~

#70 I hate it

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 11:19 AM

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I won't hold off judgements until it's finished. I'm judging it now, and it stinks.

My personal preference would be a more GNOME-ish look. The GNOME Help browser looks GREAT in my opinion, and it's sort of like a web browser (interface-wise). I'd like to see a skin of that! It's simple, elegant, and would make a nice 'default' theme.

#77 Gnome Help: Simple, but far from elegant (n/t)

by mozineAdmin

Monday October 25th, 1999 12:49 PM

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#71 Its just a skin

by Tekhir

Monday October 25th, 1999 11:45 AM

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There is no way that one skin can please everyone, it just isn't possible.

So either make your own, wait for someone to make one, or deal with it. That's the benefit of XUL.

I'll probaly change a few things here and there when it comes out.

#73 Its just a skin

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 12:22 PM

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Amen to that. There are some things I like/dislike about this skin, but it's not going to be the only one to ever be released for Mozilla. And why do some think that this is going to be the *default* skin?! I didn't find any mention of that described above.

Anyhow, I am already anticipating that we might see 1 or 2 new websites (mozskinz.com?, scapeskinz.org?, skinzilla.org perhaps?) surface as galleries for new Mozilla & other skin designs and a place to download them. It'll take awhile to build a great selection, but that's where creativity comes in. :)

#75 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday October 25th, 1999 12:36 PM

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#76 hmm

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday October 25th, 1999 12:39 PM

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The server hiccuped or something because my post did not go through as it was suppose to. But all I said in reply to Tekhir was:

WELL SAID!

<:3)~~

#78 But what about size?

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 2:28 PM

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Will the default Mozilla release allow me to minimize and have all my menu, tool and status bars in one line?

Also will we be able to make it resonably small and minimumalist like IE has started to allow out of the box?

#88 But what about size?

by MattyT <matty@box.net.au>

Monday October 25th, 1999 8:55 PM

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No, you'll have to change the XUL if you want to do this. There is a bug for toolbar movement, see <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15322> .

#89 Thank you.

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 10:23 PM

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Thank you for posting this. I have been looking for this information everywhere, but never thought to look in buzilla.

#79 Application Design vs Site Design

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 3:56 PM

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Looks like the odd UI web sites employ which were designed by artists of the advertisement departement. This means: yeah, kinda, cool, pretty unusable - too much "wanna be fancy" stuff.

Masi

PS: Anyway, interesting what can be done with XUL.

PPS: On with the contest.

#80 The 'old skin'

by basic <_basic@yahoo.com>

Monday October 25th, 1999 4:56 PM

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What is this talk about the old skin better than the new skin? I thought there was no real 'old skin'. wasn't the 'old skin' just chrome that could not work with skins?

#84 The 'old skin'

by Ben_Goodger

Monday October 25th, 1999 7:02 PM

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yes, the old skin was a skin. download M10 and have a look for yourself, you'll fin all the CSS and XUL files in the chrome/resource folders, as they have always been.

you can make subtle changes to that skin, like this: <http://homepages.ihug.co.…oodger/lizard/newmoz3.jpg>

or reinvent it as the posted screenshots show.

#82 Can I get matching skins?

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 6:16 PM

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Finally! Now the "user" in "user interface" becomes the important part! Let's hope this concept spreads.

Now, who's making matching Mozilla and Mac/WinAMP skins?

#86 I like it...

by BehrQattz <brandon@wave22.com>

Monday October 25th, 1999 7:21 PM

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a LOT. Much more efficient use of space than the current Mozilla "default". The UI changes are good.

#90 Display preference bug at this forum?

by Anon

Monday October 25th, 1999 11:09 PM

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I've been following this thread for the last few days.

I saw that there have been about 30 or so new posts since the last time I read. I in and set it to flat mode, as usual. It tells me that there are more than 75 posts and it is showing the most recent 10.

I wanted to see the most recent 30, so I make the appropriate selection and click display. The page reloads only now it is back in threaded view.

I try again, several times, and I get the same result. I tried last 20, 30 and All. Always goes back to threaded.

I used Netscape Communicator 4.6.1 and iCab on the Mac.

Anyone else have this problem?

Mike S.

#91 Hope there is a option to make em smaller

by Anon

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 12:26 AM

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When I use a browser or a mailer I want to deal with the content. Not with a bunch of oversize screen wasting buttons. There is allready to much wasted space in the browsers. Small unobtrusive controls is what I want. Eye candy is great but don't interfere with the view.

#92 New Skins?

by Anon

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 4:06 AM

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Well, yes I like the idea of having a new interface. From experience I can say that a good-interface goes a long way towards making a product friendly or difficult to use.

However at present I would rather see a good Beta of the new Browser rather than have my senses teased by what it would end uplooking like.

I have used Netscape browsers ever since version 1.00 and I can say that I am actually anxious to see version 5.00.

However this waiting is getting a bit tiring, I never recall a Netscape browsers having taken so long to get into Beta.

Still I'll be waiting.

Cheers,

#94 New Skins?

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 12:40 PM

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Well we all want the browser ASAP but the skins are important, since XUL is an important part of Mozilla so we need new skins to test XUL to make sure it works properly and help get some documentation done on working with XUL based on creating these skins.

And the people working on Mozilla work on whatever they can. Some are experienced in certain departments and others have knownledge in other areas. There are the XUL people workin on the XUL/skins part of Mozilla and other people specializing in other areas that are working in those areas. You can't tell the people working on XUL to start diverting their efforts to other parts of the browser when they don't have the knowledge and experience in those areas.

Everyone is doing what they know and I'm as anxious as you are, Go Mozilla!

<:3)~~

#93 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by sdm

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 9:41 AM

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The new skin has landed, and it looks pretty good. Expect it in the nightlys tonight. Or grab it from cvs if you're adventurous.

#98 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 3:43 PM

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WHOOHOO! It's in the build and I'm enjoying it already! YAY!

<:3)~~

#99 First Glimpse of New Skin for Mozilla!

by Tekhir

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 3:52 PM

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Too bad the latest build doesn't include apprunner.exe for Win32, :-( I guess when I get home I can transfer the sking to my last working version of m11.

#100 It's mozilla.exe now

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 4:03 PM

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They changed it from apprunner.exe to mozilla.exe

They changed it last week and it confused me for a while too, I thought it was some mistake that the apprunner.exe wasn't there until I found a file called mozilla.exe

<:3)~~

#103 D'oh. Thanks (n/t)

by Tekhir

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 7:59 PM

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d'oh

#95 UI Experts or just looking cool?

by orev

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 3:04 PM

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Does anyone know if there are any actual UI experts on the project, or are these decisions being made by a programmer who happens to know how to use Photoshop? I would really like to see a real UI person on this, making decisions, and giving reasons why. If there are none, I might be able to find some people to help out. If I should be asking this somewhere else, please let me know where to go. (bugzilla?).

#96 UI Experts or just looking cool?

by Tekhir

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 3:32 PM

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Here is ok, but there is a ui newsgroup for mozilla. The newsgroup will probably give you more informed answers.

#97 Skin + panel on left?

by Anon

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 3:38 PM

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The skin seems to indicate that the Mypanel is stuck to the left. Can it be moved to the right side of the window?

Most people are right handed. For faster access I like menus on the right. Is that panel thing movable?

The skin itself is trying to be too nice and slick, and by doing so will look bad to a lot of people and their own color preferences. Simple and functional should be the default, with a quick and easy button to get to different skin choices available on the net.

#102 Skin + panel on left?

by Ben_Goodger

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 5:13 PM

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I'm working on something like this now :)

just waiting for some DOM functions to start working.

#104 Skin + panel on left?

by Anon

Tuesday October 26th, 1999 8:00 PM

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No its not stuck on the left... just modify the xul and its on the right :)

What about those of us who are ambidextrus? Plop it right down in the middle and split the content?

#107 New Skins

by Ray

Wednesday October 27th, 1999 9:46 PM

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I myself dont care what the skin looks like as long as it does not resemble any of Microsofts browsers!!!!!!!