New Screenshots Posted...

Friday October 1st, 1999

So, I finally got off my duff, and went to work on the screenShots page. All the pictures are from TODAYS (!) build. So, if you are wary of running Mozilla (you shouldn't be, but who knows) check out the updated page. It has all sorts of new features, like pictures of the DOM Viewer, the Cookie Manager, and a shot of a view-source feature that people have wanted since the first version. Be sure to check it out!

UPDATE: More Browser screens added, along with Editor screenshots!

#1 where is the screenshot page?

by Anon

Friday October 1st, 1999 5:18 PM

sorry I'm new

#2 where is the screenshot page?

by chainsaw

Friday October 1st, 1999 5:33 PM

Look to your right. No, on the screen. Yes, right there. See it?

#15 where is the screenshot page?

by Anon

Tuesday October 5th, 1999 12:08 AM

I think, this is a very unfriendly answer! Why don't you give the URL? That's hard to understand!

#3 link on the right side of the screen

by asa

Friday October 1st, 1999 7:25 PM

#4 XUL competition?

by Anon

Friday October 1st, 1999 11:18 PM

It shames me to admit this, but I don't have the luxury of my own computer on which I can follow Mozilla's progress and submit bugs etc.

But as I have followed the progress at arms' length over the past year, one thing I have been worried about is that there are dozens of programmers working on Mozilla, and no HCI experts. (I might be wrong -- Netscape might be employing some behind the scenes. But I haven't seen them mentioned anywhere.) And as a general rule, programmers suck at designing user interfaces, because (a) they're not trained in it and (b) they know the program too well to see how unintuitive it is.

These screenshots don't make me feel any better, as I see a number of glaring usability errors: some basic UI problems, some problems which are the result of introducing XPFE widgets (but which could be fixed, given a little effort), and some faults carried over from Communicator 4.x.

Some of these problems would need to be submitted as bugs, by someone who has Mozilla in front of them and who can vouch for its behaviour better than I can. (For example, I bet the XPFE scrollbars on MacOS 8.x don't intelligently follow the user's Smart Scrolling preference, about whether both arrow buttons are at the same end or opposite ends of the scrollbar.)

But what would fix a lot of these problems, I think, is a XUL competition where anyone can submit their improvements to the Mozilla interface, and the winner(s) get their changes incorporated into Communicator 5.0.

Now *that* would be cool.

-- mpt

PS: Three cheers to Chris for FINALLY getting round to updating the screenshots section ... :-)

#7 XUL competition?

by mozineAdmin

Saturday October 2nd, 1999 5:13 AM

"These screenshots don't make me feel any better, as I see a number of glaring usability errors: some basic UI problems, some problems which are the result of introducing XPFE widgets (but which could be fixed, given a little effort), and some faults carried over from Communicator 4.x."

The dialogs haven't been tuned for usability yet. Not much more to be said about that - they'll be cleaned up later in the game.

"PS: Three cheers to Chris for FINALLY getting round to updating the screenshots section ... :-)"

You can thank Jason for this...

#8 XUL competition?

by Ben_Goodger

Saturday October 2nd, 1999 2:43 PM

Everyone is so busy there's not much time to build better interfaces when the base is leaking memory, drawing slowly and crashing! What exists at the moment is either a placeholder to test the functionality of the base, or stuff lifted from 4.x.

That does not make your concerns any less valid - if you could make a list, and post them to mozilla.ui, it would be very helpful.


#9 also, no need for a competition...

by Ben_Goodger

Saturday October 2nd, 1999 6:56 PM

No need for a competition - if someone can contribute changes to the UI that are improvements on what already exists, the change *will* be merged! If people have changes, patches etc, just post them to the NGs.

#10 XUL competition?

by design4use

Saturday October 2nd, 1999 11:33 PM

Actually we do have multiple Usability and User Interface Design groups here at Netscape. I realize that we have a long way to go before we have a final polish on all the dialogs, widgets etc. But if you consider the enourmous tasks to develop a brand nw environment, while a revolutionary toolkit underneath is still in flux, I am sure you will cut us some slack. As we greatly value your input, I'd encourage you to send your concrete feedback to netscpae.public.mozilla.xpfe(widgets, toolkit etc) or to netscape.public.mozilla.ui (general ui issues). Our group members while not always able to answer due to time reasons, do read every message, and with the help of the net well will evolve and improve this platform. So go ahead, kick the tires and let us know where it hurts, German Bauer Netscape User Experience Group

#13 Accessibility is key

by Anon

Monday October 4th, 1999 5:22 AM

One of the key reasons why I wont use Netscape 4.x is because it is impossible to use properly without a mouse (that is apart from its inability to render CSS).

I hope that Mozilla will add the much needed accessability features that IE have made a feature for so long.


#18 Accessibility is key

by Anon

Thursday October 7th, 1999 2:14 PM

That's weird. I rarely use the mouse when using Netscape 4.x. A hit of the tab key gets me into the location window where I type the URL and hit [ENTER], CTRL+M for a mail or news composition, CTRL+K to check spelling and CTRL+ENTER to send, I tab through links and between form fields, use CTRL+N for new navigator windows. I use T to advance to the next unread thread in a newsgroup, or N for the next unread message, CTRL+R for reply, CTRL+T to get new messages, etc. etc.

#19 Middle ground

by Anon

Thursday October 14th, 1999 11:24 AM

Well I just lost my whole post so here goes again.

I think it would be silly to try to create a generic widget set that incorporated the behavoir of all native widgets. It would just be too bloated. As with the Java gui, there needs to be a set of generic, platform independent, widgets which CAN, but don't have to map directory to native widgets. Most of the generic widgets probably will map directly, but some won't or will not be able to provide some peculiar native function. For instance, it might not be feasible to provide the Mac user with the ability to rearrange their scroll buttons, or the windows user to use intelliscroll with the generic widgets. Actually an argument could probably be made that having a common interface to an /application/ accross OSs is just as important as having a common interface amongst applications on a given OS. A browser is pretty much ubiquitous, so there may be a benefit of standard generic widgets accross OSs, even if they can't provide every little peculiar feature that a native widget might.

#5 Are you sure you cannot run Mozilla?

by thelem

Saturday October 2nd, 1999 2:36 AM

Mozilla doesn't have an installer, you just unzip a file, so maybe you can install Mozilla. I know that on the computers at school I can't install most stuff but I can run Mozilla.

#11 Nope, and I can't post to the ngs either ...

by Anon

Saturday October 2nd, 1999 11:44 PM

`Network disk space used: 5.79 Mb ... Please try to keep to a limit of 2 Mb.'

No, I really don't have room for it, sorry. :-)

And as for posting to the ngs, the university NNTP server doesn't carry those groups, and the proxy doesn't allow me to connect to the external news server ...

Time to hit Deja/Remarq, I guess. :-)

-- mpt

#12 New Screenshots Posted...

by Anon

Sunday October 3rd, 1999 9:01 PM

All mozilla newsgroups have mailing list equivalents, where will be (with few exceptions).

See for more information. (DejaNews also carries them, of course.)

Mike (now, where did I put that password)

#6 The history viewer

by samig

Saturday October 2nd, 1999 3:55 AM

It says "Now on par with 4.x",well that's good for a start,but it should be at least on par with IE5

#14 wow

by Anon

Monday October 4th, 1999 5:38 PM

the new release is fast, both on loading up and webpage. i hope mozilla will be release soon. netscape keeps crashing on me. (IE the same)

#16 xwindows copy 'palette'

by Anon

Wednesday October 6th, 1999 10:42 PM

so i always hate(d) the way that netscape and a few other motif and gtk apps don't put the highlighted text into the palette for copying.. in netscape 4.x the text needed to remain highlighted (or press copy). one of my most highly appreciated features of xwindows (and gpm) is being able to copy and paste without touching the keyboard... certain new apps don't allow this or it is partially broken.. this really needs to be fixed in mozilla for me to appreciate it to it's full potential... as for the rest of the apps.. it has to stop. HERE

otherwise mozilla just keeps on rockin' here's to all who contribute.

#17 Clean Up Needed

by Anon

Thursday October 7th, 1999 8:50 AM

I began computing on a Macintosh, so my first experiences were of a clean, attactive graphical interface.

I was amazed at the level of crudity in some of the screen shots. The dialogs are almost as badly designed as Windows dialog boxes.


- Provide a clean separation between all graphical elements in the dialog box

- Border space is very important to separate the contents of a dialog box from the rest of the screen elements