MozillaZine

New mozilla.org Website Beta Final Call

Monday August 30th, 2004

Steven Garrity is inviting final comments on the new mozilla.org website beta (located at website-beta.mozilla.org). Many of the earlier known issues have now been fixed and this call is for critical problems only. Please add your comments to the website beta feedback topic in the forums. If all goes well, the new website will launch tomorrow.

Update: The new website is now live!


#1 Store

by permanentE

Monday August 30th, 2004 5:51 PM

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The 'Store' tab confused me when the tabs dissapeared after I clicked it. The problem is that the link takes you to a different web site. I don't think it should be a tab, just a link on the front page.

#2 Re: Store

by sgarrity <steven@actsofvolition.com>

Monday August 30th, 2004 5:58 PM

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Yeah, we agreed. The store page is going to be redesigned to fit in with the new site - but we didn't want to hold up the new design for this.

#97 Re: Re: Store

by remline <remline@hotmail.com>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 2:51 PM

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Is the update.mozilla.org site going to be made to look this good? :) (pretty please)

#3 Better

by AnimeUSA

Monday August 30th, 2004 6:15 PM

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This is better than the first beta I saw.

#4 new moz website

by emerald <pat@firefoxtoolbar.com>

Monday August 30th, 2004 6:26 PM

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I really like the new beta as opposed to the older beta. I think the empasis on Free Download, Safer, faster and better browsing, are key points that people like my Mom will understand.

I would add "free download" to the firefox download page, just as it appears on the moz beta page.

Can't wait!

-pat <http://www.firefoxtoolbar.com>

#5 Difficult for the nonEnglish

by striptm

Monday August 30th, 2004 6:28 PM

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I like very much the design, clear and amazing, but there's one thing that surprises me: in order to download a non-english build, you have to click three times and it's supposed that english is _not_ spoken at this side. What do you think of this?

#31 Re: Difficult for the nonEnglish

by MTO

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 4:40 AM

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I like it very much as well. Good job!

Also noticed that the "Other Systems and Languages" takes you to the wrong place. There is no language selections there... I even searched for the word language... nothing there.

By the way, any possibility that in the future we can have localized (translated) versions of the site?

#6 new moz website

by emerald <pat@firefoxtoolbar.com>

Monday August 30th, 2004 6:31 PM

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I really like the new beta as opposed to the older beta. I think the empasis on Free Download, Safer, faster and better browsing, are key points that people like my Mom will understand.

I would add "free download" to the firefox download page, just as it appears on the moz beta page.

Can't wait!

-pat <http://www.firefoxtoolbar.com>

#7 Firefox: take back the web

by VManOfMana

Monday August 30th, 2004 6:49 PM

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In the product page, Firefox's title is "rediscover the web". Isn't Firefox's slogan "Take back the web"?

Agreed on the comments for non-English download being hard to find.

#8 firefox beta page

by emerald <pat@firefoxtoolbar.com>

Monday August 30th, 2004 6:57 PM

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One other thing I noticed, the quotes on the firefox beta page might be really confusing to some people (like me) for example, “...nothing short of a revelatory experience.”

If feedback is only for moz beta, then ignore this, otherwise, I would suggest two different quotes that are clear, concise, and drive the point home that MS blows and Firefox rocks.

--Pat

#9 Store

by permanentE

Monday August 30th, 2004 6:59 PM

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The Firefox icon is missing from the front page, it seems like it should be in there somewhere since the other products have it.

By the way, that's really cool how a different website shows up in the slanted browser image each time you reload.

#53 Re: Store

by Toe

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 12:02 PM

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Ditto this one, it's an important visual identifier.

On the topic of the slanted browser image, interesting choice, putting Slate in there, with some careful scrolling of the webpage. ;)

#10 Reply

by Dizzle

Monday August 30th, 2004 7:00 PM

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Excellent!

#11 Suggested improvements

by stylo

Monday August 30th, 2004 7:49 PM

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The Wired quote doesn't stand out at all and it actually looks like the whole paragraph is a Wired quote the way placed. Why not integrate quotes into the graphics on the right, using screenshots of the reviews? I don't see the point of, for example, the Nasa screenshot. We already know you can surf the net with a browser. The graphic should tell people why they should switch. Have a Cnet shot with the Cnet quote worked into the graphic. Slate quote over the Slate screennshot, etc.

The 6 sections at the bottom are a bit clumped together. Maybe each row should have a background color? or an hr between the rows to separate them? Or better still, headers with "More products" and "News" and the secondary color running across the top of each row? As it stands, hard to differentiate easily what they all are until I read them all and figure it out. With headers they stand out and I can know what they are at a glance.

I still hate the pale green secondary color. It's the wrong shade. Doesn't match the very nice and classy dark blue. Try blue-gray, like the highlight color on the tabs, only lighter?

Relatedly, the menu on inner pages is a bit ugly. The top and bottom look awkward, and the top bigger than the bottom. Some menu items are bigger than others so, again, awkward. There also appears to be an issue with the bottom border of one or two menu items being white, rather than shaded (indented).

Need a link to "other versions" of FX below the English one.

Shouldn't the dates be in spans not divs?

Hope it helps :-)

#12 icon consistency

by grasshopper

Monday August 30th, 2004 8:23 PM

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you might want to use the sunbird icon on the product page, instead of a screenshot of calendar. maybe even put it in there as part of the ff/tb family.

not too excited by the corner of the browser window on the front page. i liked the skewed/stacked windows better.

#13 moz logo

by grasshopper

Monday August 30th, 2004 8:25 PM

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the mozmonster looks a little cramped in that box

#14 Bad link on Site Map page

by colindb

Monday August 30th, 2004 8:54 PM

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The 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the Site Map page is broken.

Also (on the bottom of the Site Map page), the 'Site Map', 'Contact Us' and 'Donate' links have say 'Other Site Links' when hovered over (it doesn't happen on other pages).

#15 Re: Do-it-yourself theme kit

by ronin65

Monday August 30th, 2004 9:07 PM

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I really do not see the point of the beta page. It does not appear to do anything better than the old page and may actually do some things less well.

It certainly is not less confusing for a person who is making "first contact" with Mozilla.

You ought to give serious consideration to ditching the beta completely and either not bother (the preferred solution, I think) or starting over.

#70 Re: Re: Do-it-yourself theme kit

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:58 PM

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I'm not sure if you liked my simple design I did a while back, but in the next few weeks I'm going to be working on a new design that will have plenty of end-user content and will be aesthetically pleasing (plus quick Flash demos for the features).

#16 Front/home Page

by pkb351 <pbergsagel@shaw.ca>

Monday August 30th, 2004 9:16 PM

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When I go to the Home Page (<http://website-beta.mozilla.org/>) I notice several things I hope will be cleaned up before the final site is put on the web.

1. No way to return to the home page from other pages (probably due to being a beta?). 2. The home page leads me, at first, to conclude that FireFox is the only download. Now If I am switching from Netscape and want the Suite, if I am new to Mozilla I most likely would download Firefox and not understand why it doesn't include Mail.

3. Not all users want Firefox, some want the Suite. Not everyone who downloads Firefox will know that it doesn't include Mail/Newsgroups. The site would be improved if the site equally promoted all its products. As the page is designed now I am given the impression: HERE IS FIREFOX; oh and if you want, here are two other programs, Thunderbird and Mozilla, (but we are not really promoting them, or recomending them). Would it be possible to add a description of the typical user of the product, as a suggestion, --Firefox: for the user who simply wants a lean, simply designed browser --Thunderbird: a secure easy to use Mail client. --Mozilla: a suite of internet tools. For those who prefer both Browser and Mail/Newsgroups in one application, would like the tools to develop simple web pages, and might need advaced web development tools.

As the page stands now my impression is that the only product Mozilla.org cares about enough to market adequately is Firefox. This is the impression the Home page leaves me with. I hope this is not the intention of the site designers or Mozilla marketing.

#49 Re: Front/home Page

by pbreit

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 10:52 AM

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Disagree. We have to get people off the suite. Just download Firefox and Thunderbird. There, that was easy.

#51 Why

by pkb351 <pbergsagel@shaw.ca>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 11:45 AM

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Why do people have to stop using the suite if this is what they prefer. Especially if you are doing Web design there are tools not found in the seperate programs.

BTW a user moving over from Netscape may actually feel more familar with the suite. Just because you prefer something else doesn't mean everyone will. Why should I be forced to use a program which lacks the features I want and need...a dumbed down browser lacking many useful features and preference settings. Why should I be forced to hope that the feature I need will be a plugin/add on which will continue to work after the next version is released?

I am not against Firefox. Use it if you like it. I don't believe it is for everyone. For me the suite is best.

#69 Re: Why

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:55 PM

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The reason the suite needs to be ditched -or- thrown off the front at least is this: <http://www.mozilla.org/we…usage_200408.html#TOPURLS>

54,156,761 for the default start page versus 6,806,408 for the Mozilla 1.7 in August.

"Especially if you are doing Web design there are tools not found in the seperate programs." which 0.1% of the web is into...

"moving over from Netscape" which 0.1% of the web is into...

Why should the frontpage be bloated with something that most people would not find an advantage to??

#77 Re: Re: Why

by Waldo_2

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 11:14 PM

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This supposes that users of both browsers change the start page with equal frequency. As suite is certainly geekier than Fx (more opts, more interface, more cruft), I'd bet suite users change it more than Fx users.

That said, I very doubt 6+ suite users change the start page for every 1 Fx user who does (or whatever the true figures are, don't care to think too hard about it). It's not that the suite is necessarily bad, but because it's only being maintained enough to stay functional, they're trying to switch users so that eventually (once commercial interests are mostly with Fx and 90% of suite users are former suite users) the suite can go into unmaintained (by MozFound, diehards can maintain it themselves if they so desire) mode.

#88 Re: Re: Re: Why

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 8:29 AM

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That'd be my hope, though even at this time, there's absolutely no reason to keep it on the front.

#94 Re: Why

by pbreit

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 12:41 PM

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Because it's just a massive drain on resources and distracts from the far more important objective of getting Firefox to 1.0. There's a reason that it's taken 6+ years for Mozilla to put out a browser that could be used day-to-day: lack of focus. Finally with Firefox and the new site they are on the right track. Let's not ruin it.

#104 Re: Re: Front/home Page

by megazone <megazone@megazone.org>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 5:10 PM

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Great - except every time I use Firefox I like it LESS and I love Suite MORE. I HATE having to deal with the bullshit of adding plug-ins just to control the browser, the loss of all the configuration options from Suite is unacceptable to me. I'm not switching to Fitefox from Suite until absolutely forced to, and I actively recommend Suite over Firefox constantly. I really don't like the directly Mozilla took with Firefox.

#110 Re: Re: Re: Front/home Page

by ronin65

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 9:12 AM

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I very much agree. Although I am an OS X user I must say that I have liked FF less and less as it has "progressed" in recent months. It has lost functionality that it had before. It lacks the basic features of the browser in the suite and in general is a crude instrument by comparison. I have quit using FF for anything except downloads, which it does quite speedily. At this time I would not recommend FF to anyone, let alone someone being "converted" from IE.

I disagree with the earlier comment about focus. It seems to me, as an outsider, that the effort is as disjointed as it ever was. I think that the usability of FF from the perspective of a new user is very poor. Updating should have been incorporated into the browser itself a very long time ago. It lacks desirable features which IE has had for a very long time. I do not think that FF, at least the one I have used is ready to be pitched to the public at large. Mozilla is by far the more likely candidate even though many of the shortcomings of FF apply to it...just not as many.

#111 suite is dead-end

by pbreit

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 9:45 AM

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What critical features is Firefox missing? Are these features that the average user needs?

Megazone, your doing people a dis-service advising them to start using a dead-end product. Your energy is better spent crystalizing what is missing in Firefox.

I suspect that by 1.0 Firefox will have better out-of-the-box Flash, PDF and Java support. Those are the only must-have extensions I can think of.

#114 Re: Do-it-yourself theme kit

by ronin65

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 10:50 AM

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First I must say that I do not like the general concept of Firefox at all insofar as features which were present in Mozilla are now shoved off on extensions developers or required to be added manually via user.js file edits (e.g. URL auto-complete) or about:config additions. These are "nice to have" capabilities for those with the skills to utilize them, but are completely beyond the capabilities of the people who the Foundation professes to target as users. It makes no sense at all. In fact, it is really dumb. For example, Mozilla's sidebar has a "grippie" to open/close it with a single click (very much like IE). Firefox does not. One must hunt down an extension...which does not work any more. There are no "grippies" for the bookmark bar and etc in Firefox with or without extensions at the present time. There is no "tab icon" to open a new tab (this is important to new users who have not figured out keyboard commands). Some of the menu structure in Firefox is several steps backward in my opinion. Example: In Mozilla to view saved passwords one simply clicks tools>password manager (manage stored passwords)>show passwords>yes whereas in Firefox one must first figure out that it is tucked away in preferences (rather than in tools with other things) and click Firefox>Preferences>Saved Passwords>View Saved Passwords>Show Saved Passwords>Yes. On top of that the password manager in Firefox still does not work properly in all instances and will not show passwords. (This note applies to both Firefox and Mozilla: there is no ability to edit the password file or keep a note about the account and it is not password protected as are all the case with the OS X Keychain. By the way, I can think of no good reason why Firefox for OS X fails to make use of the existing Keychain capability or fails to utilize "services" as other OS X browser do.)

There are some things which worked briefly in Firefox's extensions which are such good ideas that I can not conceive why they are not incorporated into the browser as a basic feature such as an automatic bookmark and/or profile backup on closing the browser. Another is the Tabbed Browser Extension (no longer functional) which, among other things, allows tabs to be reordered by dragging and dropping (as is also the case with OmniWeb 5). And then there is the no longer functional extension to generate secure passwords...making up passwords is rather a chore for the typical user in my experience...and the reason that there are so many insecure passwords. I have lost track of the ability to white list/ black list individual site's pop-up windows via a "button" in the toolbar which I believe also belongs as a basic part of the browser. Blocking all pop-ups is great until the user goes to a site which they wish to access information which requires that pop-ups or cookies be enabled. While it is a fair comment that Firefox is only approaching version 1.0 I believe that it is nonetheless fair comment that the design philosophy does not take these things into account and so is unlikely to do the things I have mentioned at all.

As I mentioned earlier, Firefox needs to incorporate a "check for updates" feature to enable a new user to keep the browser up to date without having to try to figure out the arcane mislabelings that are used in Firefox. It is difficult enough for someone who has been using Firefox for some period of time to figure out just what the hell the developers intend you to use when there are multiple versions of the same number issued and higher numbered versions which are transitory "bug fixes" which should they revert to the lower numbered version thereafter. Very, very confusing. Not at all suitable for use by the general public.

Insofar as the Camino vs. Firefox discusion goes it is clear that the developers of Camino wish to have absolutely nothing to do with Firefox and are engaged on a development path which pleases them (as is their priviledge to do). In my experience with Camino it is, by design, without features which allow it to be configured as I would wish and I find increasingly less to distinguish it from Safari.

In sum I find that the perspective that the developers of Firefox is quite different from that of the people they desire to attract to the browser. Their needs are very different as well. I do not see that the two are a good mix. My views are based upon my experience with the OS X versions of the browsers involved and may not necessarily be similar to the experience with the Windows versions.

Cheers

#117 Re: Re: Do-it-yourself theme kit

by ronin65

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 1:38 PM

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I was mistaken, the new FF releases do have a master password capability.

#17 Front/home Page

by pkb351 <pbergsagel@shaw.ca>

Monday August 30th, 2004 9:21 PM

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When I go to the Home Page (<http://website-beta.mozilla.org/>) I notice several things I hope will be cleaned up before the final site is put on the web.

1. No way to return to the home page from other pages (probably due to being a beta?). 2. The home page leads me, at first, to conclude that FireFox is the only download. Now If I am switching from Netscape and want the Suite, if I am new to Mozilla I most likely would download Firefox and not understand why it doesn't include Mail.

3. Not all users want Firefox, some want the Suite. Not everyone who downloads Firefox will know that it doesn't include Mail/Newsgroups. The site would be improved if the site equally promoted all its products. As the page is designed now I am given the impression: HERE IS FIREFOX; oh and if you want, here are two other programs, Thunderbird and Mozilla, (but we are not really promoting them, or recomending them). Would it be possible to add a description of the typical user of the product, as a suggestion, --Firefox: for the user who simply wants a lean, simply designed browser --Thunderbird: a secure easy to use Mail client. --Mozilla: a suite of internet tools. For those who prefer both Browser and Mail/Newsgroups in one application, would like the tools to develop simple web pages, and might need advaced web development tools.

As the page stands now my impression is that the only product Mozilla.org cares about enough to market adequately is Firefox. This is the impression the Home page leaves me with. I hope this is not the intention of the site designers or Mozilla marketing.

#20 Re: Front/home Page

by Smigit

Monday August 30th, 2004 11:11 PM

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1) click the top left mozilla logo. Its the same system as employed by the current site. 2)on your last sentemnce...i dont understand why general users would EXPECT a mail client in a product that isnt advertised as having one. Since the general population uses IE, most people have never had an app that does include a mail client also. 3) like it or not (and alot of people clearly dont), Firefox is not the flagship product. It makes no sence confusing users with 3 or 4 different browsers, when the one intended for the average home user is Firefox. Im suprised mozilla is even on the frontpage, but its clearly still there and easy to find.

#37 Re: Re: Front/home Page

by naylor83 <d.naylor@swipnet.se>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 6:46 AM

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You mean "is the flagship product.", don't you?

#18 Sorry for the double post

by pkb351 <pbergsagel@shaw.ca>

Monday August 30th, 2004 9:22 PM

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I hit refresh to see new posts and instead I reposted my post :(

#19 Unalias browser picture

by Racer

Monday August 30th, 2004 9:34 PM

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Its too bad the page doesn't look quite as nice in IE as it does in Mozilla. But then, thats the point, isn't it? :) Looks like IE ignores max-width...among other things.

#102 Re: Unalias browser picture

by travise

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 4:50 PM

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Actually, since the majority of people use IE and are potential candidates for using Firefox, wouldn't having the website not render properly in their current browser possibly give them a poor impression of the website or the website's products? At least, that's what I would guess.

#21 Wrong download links on frontpage

by ostgote

Monday August 30th, 2004 11:56 PM

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Dependent on your OS the FF dl links point to 0.9.1/0.9.2 instead of 0.9.3.

#22 Non-consistency in product descriptions

by milamber

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 12:24 AM

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Frontpage headlines: * Firefox 0.9.3 * Get Thunderbird * Mozilla Suite

Everyone getting my point?

But a great improvent from today!!

#56 Re: Non-consistency in product descriptions

by cybersnoop

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 2:40 PM

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It's improved now, but both the title of the Mozilla Suite (currently only "Mozilla") is confusing to new users. Furthermore the short descriptions might give new visitors a hard time to decide wheter they need it or not.

#23 IE6 logo flicker

by stylo

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 12:26 AM

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I get severe flicker in IE6 on XP mousing over the logo. My IE is set to check the page every time, but, nontheless, there isn't a rollover so shouldn't be any flicker at all.

#123 Re: IE6 logo flicker

by praseodymium

Friday September 3rd, 2004 10:01 AM

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#24 Inconsistancy

by big_surfer

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 12:38 AM

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First of all, I like the new design. Crisps and clear, not too much information. But when I go to "Other Systems and Languages" I find 2 issues:

1) Why does a new menue appear at the left side of the side. This is a inconsistancy to the prior sites. Also the content of the submenue does not apply to the page´s content! If you want to use a submenue: Place it on the same (right) side than the main sides. And fill it with menue items that are related to this (big) page´s content: - Release Notes - what is new - system Requirements - windows - linux - other platforms - FAQ ...

2) Where are the "other languages"? Presuming, i´m a new (former IE) user from Europe, where do I find my (nationalized) version at first glance, at second glance .... ? I can´t find it! You should add a link to foreign language versions at a prominent place!

There is also a lot of information on the page "Other Systems and Languages". The information needs to be more structured. The difference between headers and subheaders is nearly unnoticable and doesn´t support the page´s structure.

Is all of the information on this page really necessary for the "normal" users? Think about reducing the amount of information (moving it to other places of this website) and the page becomes more readable.

#25 better ;)

by Akh

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 1:45 AM

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added to usercontent.css

#www-mozilla-org > #container { max-width: 1400px !important; margin: 0 2em !important; }

#26 Icon missing

by getbent

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 2:17 AM

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The new site is very beautiful but is missing a big plug for Firefox in that the logo is missing.

#28 Re: Icon missing

by Jugalator

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 2:35 AM

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Agreed, logo must in. :-P

#27 Great!

by Jugalator

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 2:35 AM

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Now he's getting somewhere! :D

The first preview looked pretty bad, with little graphics and layout to logically divide the information, but this is much better!

#29 Re: Great!

by Jugalator

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 2:37 AM

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Err, one thing though... "The RSS links will do what", will the novice user say. They just bring up the XML code. :-S Also, what does the RSS link in the feed icon in Firefox do? It just says "RSS" now.

#30 feedback

by mr_magoo

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 4:39 AM

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Consistancy is needed on the front page - mozilla dot org vs mozillaZine.org - pick one style - i'd put mozilla.org rather than the dot... Further consitancy - caps - mozilla dot org is lower, vs mozillaZine.org having a higher Z.

other wise, looks v nice.

tom

#32 RSS

by berkut

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 4:47 AM

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I think those three RSS columns are out of place on the front page of the website and are not really needed there... Perhaps a separate link to news and PR page?

#33 Firefox branding still not clear

by JimInKS

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 4:54 AM

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To me the branding of Firefox is still unclear:

On Home page just

"Firefox 0.9.3"

Follow Firefox link then

"Firefox - rediscover the web" at the top of the page. The page title says "Firefox - The Browser, Reloaded". And STILL NO LOGO, even on the Firefox page.

Go to the Support page and click on Firefox Help (Which IMHO Help should have a prominent link on the Firefox home page). We have now gone to some new website called "texturizer.net", the page design is now totally different (I like the texturizer design better btw, the navigation appears to be clear and well organized and I tend to like "earthy" colors better anyway) AND

Firefox is NOW - "Web browsing redifined"

The Firefox HELP page looks like another Firefox HOME page, it has much more than just HELP.

The if we go the UPDATES page we have ANOTHER totally different design.

Also, back to the new Mozilla home page - "Get Thunderbird" should be just "Thunderbird" to be consistent with Firefox and Mozilla Suite.

#34 Firefox branding still not clear

by JimInKS

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 5:03 AM

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To me the branding of Firefox is still unclear:

On Home page just

"Firefox 0.9.3"

Follow Firefox link then

"Firefox - rediscover the web" at the top of the page. The page title says "Firefox - The Browser, Reloaded". And STILL NO LOGO, even on the Firefox page.

Go to the Support page and click on Firefox Help (Which IMHO Help should have a prominent link on the Firefox home page). We have now gone to some new website called "texturizer.net", the page design is now totally different (I like the texturizer design better btw, the navigation appears to be clear and well organized and I tend to like "earthy" colors better anyway) AND

Firefox is NOW - "Web browsing redifined"

The Firefox HELP page looks like another Firefox HOME page, it has much more than just HELP.

The if we go the UPDATES page we have ANOTHER totally different design.

Also, back to the new Mozilla home page - "Get Thunderbird" should be just "Thunderbird" to be consistent with Firefox and Mozilla Suite.

#35 Room for RSS on the front page but...

by brokenvoice

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 5:29 AM

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...no Camino?

No Surprise?

#50 Re: Room for RSS on the front page but...

by pbreit

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 10:54 AM

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Camino needs to be phased out. Energy is much better spent on MacOS Firefox.

#55 uhh....

by pizzach

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 2:08 PM

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If I remember correctly, some important people said if Mac users want a native browser use Camino, not Firefox.

#65 I think I have the name spelling right

by pizzach

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 6:51 PM

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Sorry not trying to spam. I think it was Ben Goodger himself who had said that.

#67 Re: I think I have the name spelling right

by steeler_fan

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:47 PM

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Yeah, if you want a /native/ browser. If you want a /native/ Windows browser, Firefox isn't for you either.

#95 Re: Re: I think I have the name spelling right

by pizzach

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 1:22 PM

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Exactly. That is why windows users should download K-Meleon and Linux users should download Galeon. :)

#78 Re: Re: Room for RSS on the front page but...

by brokenvoice

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 11:25 PM

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What's wrong? Too cheap to buy a Mac?

#89 Re: Re: Room for RSS on the front page but...

by kapowaz

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 9:40 AM

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"Disagree. We have to get people off the suite. Just download Firefox and Thunderbird. There, that was easy." "Camino needs to be phased out. Energy is much better spent on MacOS Firefox."

Really this is quite unconstructive. Many people prefer different products (I certainly prefer the polish of Camino on OS X to Firefox, even though I think the latter is an excellent browser) and on Windows I use Suite for the many add-ons (DOM Inspector, Venkman etc.) and not having to keep an item on the taskbar for a separate mail client. I'm sure many other people feel likewise. Sure, Firefox is probably the biggest and most important product Mozilla offers at the moment, but that shouldn't mean phasing out or hiding away the other products.

#36 Internationalisation

by wvh <wouter-mozzine@fort-knox.rave.org>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 6:13 AM

Reply to this message

There should be easier links to other language versions. Perhaps already some in small font under the main "Download" button, but definitely in the page it takes you to.

Apart from that, a very clear design. Nice!

#38 This is primarily a marketing site...

by dave532

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:18 AM

Reply to this message

...therefore having a link to planet mozilla seems a very bad idea to me.

Basically it links to recent Mozilla blog posts, blogs are a personal thing and therefore might link to an article that you'd not want a possible new user to read. e.g. "Is Firefox going NUTS or what?!?" was a post glazou did about the decision to remove view source from Firefox (in the end that idea was scrapped anyway), it's good these concerns are voiced but on a page promoting Firefox you don't want articles like that.

The link to MozillaZine will provide easy enough access to the blogs for people who are interested, so I think it's probably a good idea to remove planet mozilla from the front page so that bloggers can voice their opinion without having to worry about scaring away new users.

#71 Re: This is primarily a marketing site...

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:02 PM

Reply to this message

Oh, don't forget that mozilla.org was once "promoting" porn ;)

<http://andkon.com/xtra/mozporn.jpg>

#121 RSS feeds on the homepage is one of the best ideas

by pete27

Friday September 3rd, 2004 8:40 AM

Reply to this message

It gives the site a living by having some changes a day. That was one of the biggest lacks in prior versions.

#124 Re: RSS feeds on the homepage is one of the best i

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Friday September 3rd, 2004 11:08 AM

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Well then, I suggest Mozilla.org have feeds from Japanese sites because those would be just as relevant to endusers as the ones they have today: *David Tenser: Let's use Mozilla Firefox on Mälardalen University! *Zach Lipton: Website: getting involved? *Henrik Lynggaard: Where is Asa ??

Keeping things fresh *and* relevant, right?

#128 RSS feeds on the homepage is one of the best ideas

by pete27

Saturday September 4th, 2004 11:28 AM

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> *David Tenser: Let's use Mozilla Firefox on Mälardalen University! *Zach Lipton: Website: getting involved? *Henrik > Lynggaard: Where is Asa ??

> Keeping things fresh *and* relevant, right?

I'm afraid I have to agree. Irrelevant RSS might give the site a hacker image. On the other hand, just an update every 6 weeks like "new firefox 0.9.4.56 is out" is not enough to keep a site fresh.

#39 Reply

by Racer

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:34 AM

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Could someone explain why I cant image-block the big rotated mozilla browser image? That image doesn't even show up in the page info->media tab.

#59 Re: Reply

by MXN

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 3:50 PM

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That's because the image is generated at random using JavaScript. So none of the image-related context menu items (like View Image or Copy Image Location) show up.

– Minh Nguyen

#72 JAVASCRIPT???

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:05 PM

Reply to this message

What's the need for using *client-side* Javascript?? Why not use a server-side alternative that would work *all-the-time*: <http://www.alistapart.com/articles/randomizer/>

#107 Re: JAVASCRIPT???

by MXN

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 6:10 PM

Reply to this message

Go figure…

But since it appeared pretty late in the beta cycle, the cycling images are probably a quick hack (only a guess).

– Minh Nguyen

#112 Re: Re: JAVASCRIPT???

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 10:29 AM

Reply to this message

That PHP script takes about 2 minutes to set up, as opposed to coming with a new script...

#40 A few other things

by dave532

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:44 AM

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Titles need to be updated: homepage title mentions Camino but homepage doesn't Firefox product page has the slogan The browser reloaded in the titlebar but uses a different slogan in the page.

Linking to that 'wired' article seems pointless, there's nothing really there that means anything to anyone - the slate article would be better - also the wired page describes Mozilla as tired.

#41 Much better

by Galik

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:46 AM

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I think this is a lot better than the last one. It's a big leap in the right direction. It's not perfect though but to begin with it works for me. There are still a lot of valid comments I've read here that it would be good to work into the final. However if they can't all be got in now that doesn't matter. Make a note of them and try to work the ideas into future upgrades to the site. If this is aimed to be helpful to migrating users then one thing you might want to consider is drawing peoples attention to the 'default' equivelents in a Microsoft installation. Along the lines of "Firefox - replacement for Internet Explorer" and "Thunderbird - replacement for Outlook Express" or "Mozilla Suite - replacement for Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Front Page plus an excellent Internet Relay Chat client". Probably can be worded better though. The reason I think this might be a good idea is that a *lot* of windows users out there really have no idea what a Browser is. To them it's just (incorrectly) "The Internet" and Internet Explorer is merely the icon that opens up "The Internet". This is partially Microsoft's fault for calling a Web Broser "Internet Explorer". "Web Explorer" would have been far more accurate. But then I guess "Internet" was the buzzword everyone knew at the time and so marketing wise it was going to be more familiar.

#42 Calendar Project and Sunbird Project

by neilparks1

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:01 AM

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The following appears on the "Products" page:

(quote)

Calendar Project We are hard at work creating a first class, cross-platform calendar application. Check out the Sunbird project for a promising endeavor in this area.

(end quote)

The words "Calendar Project" and the words "Sunbird Project" are 2 different clickable links pointing to 2 distinctly different "project" pages. But that distinction is lost within the paragraph.

#43 Too much english version oriented

by ericbe

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:11 AM

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My first impression is that the design looks good. But...

The first page is really too much english version oriented. I use a linux mozilla 1.7 with a french interface but on the page presented to me, there is only a big direct link to download an english version of firefox for linux. This is really bad. I think that it should be more clear that it exists some translated versions of the browser.

#44 nice

by jilles

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:18 AM

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minor issue: you might want to mention in the firefox block that it is available for other platforms than just windows as well. ie (6.0, win xp): the page stretches to the full width of the page

#45 Too much english version oriented

by ericbe

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:30 AM

Reply to this message

My first impression is that the design looks good. But...

The first page is really too much english version oriented. I use a linux mozilla 1.7 with a french interface but on the page presented to me, there is only a big direct link to download an english version of firefox for linux. This is really bad. I think that it should be more clear that it exists some translated versions of the browser.

#46 Skype

by AnimeUSA

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 9:21 AM

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Why not follow the example on Skype.com 's page? They have a little row of icons representing other countries. A user that doesn't speak English could click on those flags to take them to a list of International Mozilla websites.

#54 Re: Skype

by MTO

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 1:48 PM

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Not because of lack of volunteers... this is one of the things you'd find most volunteers for since it would just involve translating skills and there are thousands of us who really miss localizations of the site.

Mozilla Europe <http://www.mozillaeurope.org> has done a great job in this sense... like many other I will the Mozilla Organization would listen to us international users on this thing...

(great design though, great improvements!)

#84 languages

by WeSaySo

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 5:48 AM

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What would you use for english? The US flag? The British flag? The Jamaican flag? And for spanish? There are over a dozen choices there. And wait until you use a Chinese flag for chinese (or even better, use a Taiwanese flag).

#87 Re: languages

by MTO

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 7:50 AM

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Ideally, on first hand you wouldnt need flags, just serve them the language they have set in their browser.

Secondly, aside from that, it's quite simple to detect where the user is coming from. If you want to use the banner system, you can detect country (by IP) and serve the correct flag.

#47 People still read wired?

by tono

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 9:32 AM

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The website does look better, aside from the inconsistency of not being able to download all of them from the front page. But the use of a wired quote confuses me. I didn't know people still read wired, I stopped in 97 because they stopped being relevant then.

#48 Better Pictures Please

by lkisser

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 10:30 AM

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The CD (get FireFox on CD) looks more like a button than a CD. A CD should be more colourful.

The screen captures of Firefox are anti-aliased badly. I still can see jagged lines! Seriously, please use better screen captures.

#52 big improvements all around

by coda

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 11:59 AM

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Generally impressed with the new design, there is still room for improvement but for now it's miles ahead of what is currently up. Only suggestion I have is to add the product logos to their product homepages to enforce branding. And also I wonder if there should be a more visible "learn more about Firefox" link on the homepage? The graphic title is a link, as is the random screenshot, but not many visitors will realise this until they hover over either for the link. But I doubt they would even know to do that.

Also what about making the text titles of the other products on the homepage also graphics like the "Firefox 0.9.3" header graphic? That will make them stand out a little more against the others, i.e. "In The Store", "Announcements", etc.

Lastly, why on Earth is "Firefox: Wired" an announcement?

#57 The site went live.

by polidobj

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 2:44 PM

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I was still getting the cached version of the web site. Then I noticed the new design when I went to a page not in my cache.

#58 rotating screenshots on frontpage

by jilles

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 3:01 PM

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:-). I spotted three versions of the tilted screenshot already. Nice.

The design of <http://www.mozilla.org/pr…r/sunbird_screenshot.html> is a bit messed up though.

#61 Re: rotating screenshots on frontpage

by MXN

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 3:55 PM

Reply to this message

In fact, other Calendar/Sunbird project pages are messed up too now, including the experimental PHP-based FAQ (<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/faq2.html> ) and the Related Links page (<http://www.mozilla.org/pr…jects/calendar/links.html> ).

– Minh Nguy&#7877;n

#75 Re: rotating screenshots on frontpage

by sgarrity <steven@actsofvolition.com>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:26 PM

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Fixed, fixed, and fixed. Thanks.

#60 Ugh...

by Sykil <sykilds@gmail.com>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 3:53 PM

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It just keeps getting worse and worse. For one, that design doesn't look good at 100%. The beta before this new design looked a ton better.

#83 I take that back..

by Sykil <sykilds@gmail.com>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 4:10 AM

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... The more I look at it the more I like it. It's looking good from a code standpoint too, and I think that the DOCTYPE could be changed to XHTML Strict with no major validation errors, save for some extra /'s on the one-tag elements. Also, that new Firefox page is looking good.

#62 Being nitpicky...

by MXN

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 4:07 PM

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• The "Announcements" link on the front page should link to the News page: <http://www.mozilla.org/news.html>

• On the Products page, the mini-screenshot next to the Calendar Project's entry looks a bit out of place. IMHO screenshots shouldn't be the size of logos unless they're thumbnails: no one can tell what it depicts. Maybe a version of the Sunbird logo without the bird?

• I know I'm just being picky here, but on the Firefox product page, under "Smarter Search," it currently says "type 'dict < word>' in the Location Bar." The HTML should instead be something like "type 'dict < var>word< /var>' in the Location Bar." People might lament having to find the angle bracket keys to access the dictionary... :·P

– Minh Nguyen

#63 Re: Being nitpicky...

by MXN

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 4:10 PM

Reply to this message

Maybe I should clarify the last point. I think the word "word" should be italicized, instead of being set off by angle brackets. And var seems like a good choice of HTML tagging to me (most browsers I know of support it).

– Minh Nguyen

#64 404 page? Mozilla.org domain for sale?

by SomeGuy

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 4:11 PM

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I wish I didn't have to say this, but this new blue mozilla page reminds me a heck of a lot like various common 404 pages on sites like geocities or those "domain for sale" pages.

Personally I liked the tan theme much, much, much better. It was much more unique and stood out a bit. Was there really such a big need to change the layout again? Will the CD and manual covers be re-done to match this?

Also it does not make sense to put firefox at the top until it reaches 1.0.

And what gives with that free download link being green on green? Nothing personal but this page screams "I was designed by someone who is color blind!"

#66 No Mozilla.org link or logo on top of p.m.o

by kss

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:32 PM

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I noticed that planet.mozilla.org page does not have a Mozilla.org logo on top. Also a Mozilla.org link is absent from the top of page. Perhaps the designer had a reason to not to put them on top (rather the mozilla.org link is in footer of this long long page). But I thought that the logo and the foundation link should be available on the top of the page.

#74 Re: No Mozilla.org link or logo on top of p.m.o

by sgarrity <steven@actsofvolition.com>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:10 PM

Reply to this message

It's coming soon.

#76 Re: Re: No Mozilla.org link or logo on top of p.m.

by kss

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:50 PM

Reply to this message

Perfect.

#68 Mozilla.org and old browsers such as Netscape 4.x.

by Andrew_T

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 7:49 PM

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Does anyone have any concerns about how the new website looks on old browsers such as Netscape Communicator 4.x?

In addition to having CSS formatting information withheld (which is understandable), Netscape 4.x doesn't display any logo image for the Mozilla banner, and the "Products," "Support," "Store," "Developers," and "About" links appear stacked on top of each other!

It is unreasonable, of course, to expect a modern website template to render ideally on a technologically obsolete browser like Netscape 4.x, but I'm left thinking that more compatibility shown towards users of older browsers would be better at attracting these users to the Mozilla.org website and persuading them to switch to a newer and better web browser (i.e., Mozilla).

#73 Re: Mozilla.org and old browsers such as Netscape 4.x.

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 8:08 PM

Reply to this message

There's hardly anyone using Netscape 4.x who already from other sites doesn't feel kinda out of place. The alternative would be a clunky table based design. The market should be IE (which is 95%) and nothing else.

#80 But that's no reason for excluding NS4

by pete27

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 1:58 AM

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It's no reason for excluding NS4. The design could also be done with simple tables without more effort. So, why using DIV formatting here without any need?

#82 Re: But that's no reason for excluding NS4

by leafdigital

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 4:06 AM

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Yeah, let's demonstrate the future of the web with an ass-backwards tabled site that ignores good practice. Way to go.

Netscape 4 is over, that's o, v, e, r. Nobody supports it any more. Nobody tests for it any more. Nobody cares.

That said, if the design uses HTML properly then it should work and be readable even in Netscape 4, so if that's not the case, perhaps it should be tweaked. (Sometimes this is as simple as changing from DIV to SPAN or something.)

--sam

#103 Tabbed links at top of page in NS4.x

by Andrew_T

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 5:04 PM

Reply to this message

I stress that the site does not render acceptably in Netscape 4.x even though all CSS formatting information is being withheld: The "Products," "Support," "Store," "Developers," and "About" links at the top of the page render in such a way that they all overlap one on top of another on this browser and are therefore unusable.

#115 But that's no reason for excluding NS4

by pete27

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 10:52 AM

Reply to this message

> Netscape 4 is over, that's o, v, e, r. Nobody supports it any more. Nobody tests for it any more. Nobody cares.

You're one of the guys who prefer better code than better look. Great idea. Wake up! mozilla.org is a highly frequented site which should serve as many browsers as possible. Maybe they should add a view-source button to show how cool their code is...

#79 Submenues

by big_surfer

Tuesday August 31st, 2004 11:37 PM

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The submenue of the product release pages (FF TB MOZ) should be changed.

The submenue should be a guide to this specific (and huge) page´s content!

#81 Update.mozilla.org!

by guice

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 3:28 AM

Reply to this message

Sweet, site live. Now they they need to update the Mozilla Theme/Extension site!

#86 Re: Update.mozilla.org!

by mlefevre

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 6:43 AM

Reply to this message

I believe that work is being done on that, and also on the store, so that they match up.

#85 missing padding in seamonkey

by WeSaySo

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 5:49 AM

Reply to this message

Seamonkey 1.7.2 has no margins in the viewport. The text and shaded areas are flat against the edge.

#91 Re: missing padding in seamonkey

by bzbarsky

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 10:11 AM

Reply to this message

You're getting the new HTML and the old stylesheet because the CSS has not expired in your cache yet. Try shift-reload.

#101 Re: Re: missing padding in seamonkey

by WeSaySo

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 4:37 PM

Reply to this message

I had already done 2 shift-reloads when I posted. Each one gave a little more of the stylesheets. I just did two more shift-reloads and finally got the same look as in Firefox.

#90 A couple of alterations...

by kapowaz

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 9:44 AM

Reply to this message

Could we have:

a.) Some sort of image replacement technique rather than direct images for major headings (e.g. "Firefox 0.9.3"). Stuart Langridge's technique (<http://www.kryogenix.org/code/browser/lir/>) is pretty damned good for this. b.) An alternate state for the main navigation tabs when you're within one of their sections of the site. Mouseover state is only half-way there, in my view.

Otherwise, great job!

#92 Design needs some small but IMPORTANT improvements

by rehanyarkhan <Rehan@India.com>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 11:52 AM

Reply to this message

There are a few small but cruitial design elements missing. These will prevent THE AVERAGE & BELOW AVERAGE ABILITY USER from gaining acess to Mozilla software. 1. <http://www.mozilla.org/...the> Thunderbird & Mozilla icons are incorrectly placed. They cause the sections Announcements & Weblogs to look like sub sections. You need to move the icon above the line. 2. You need a more info>> link with both Thunderbird & Mozilla sections. 3. There is no download link in <http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/> 4. More screenshots needed...people evaluate on the basis of screenshots...you need to visually support evaluators.

Rest is well. Congrats on the new look. RyK

#106 Re: Design needs some small but IMPORTANT improvem

by MTO

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 5:54 PM

Reply to this message

Agreed, that part of the design leads you to see the RSS sections as subsections of the products... Maybe a horizontal line separating the products and these, or some other thing would be necessary to avoid missleading here.

#93 Sunbird Logo

by driverkt

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 11:52 AM

Reply to this message

It's already been said, but the sunbird logo should appear instead of a calendar screenshot on the projects page.

#96 Padding and stickout

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 2:25 PM

Reply to this message

There's no padding around the whole document in Firefox, and in IE (5.5 and 6 at least) the blue bar's right side sticks out in a rather ugly way:

<http://www.andkon.com/xtra/mozie.jpg>

#98 Re: Padding and stickout

by pmsyyz

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 3:12 PM

Reply to this message

The requested URL was denied, as specified in the SmartFilter Content Filter configuration. The content category: Mature.

The Air Force won't let me view it. :P

#99 Re: Re: Padding and stickout

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 3:41 PM

Reply to this message

Yes, filters block my entire site, because it's good policy to not let adults and high school students read anything I have to say. I've actually written to superintendents and school boards asking them to unblock me. They usually gave some stupid response like "your site is a significant drain on network bandwidth". They never wrote back after I pointed out that their Frontpage-vomit sites were usually 10 times more bandwidth heavy than any of mine...

Of course, there's an easy way around all the filters (it should work, it works in most schools):

<http://atlantis.dnsprotect.com/~andkonc/>

(Just add the directory address to go to the pics)

#118 Re: Do-it-yourself theme kit

by ronin65

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 4:13 PM

Reply to this message

Most of the links on your website are inoperative.

#125 Re: Re: Do-it-yourself theme kit

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Friday September 3rd, 2004 11:10 AM

Reply to this message

copy and paste the directory URL... i have for example /stuf/ links instead of stuf/

#100 Re: Padding and stickout

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 3:55 PM

Reply to this message

Ah, it seems it was just now fixed.

#105 Re: Re: Front/home Page

by megazone <megazone@megazone.org>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 5:17 PM

Reply to this message

The new design looks good - but it is hard to find the technology previews now. The first several stabs I took at finding 1.8alpha2 on the new site were wrong. I eventually found the link down on the download page after clicking around.

It was nice having a second for the latest alphas and betas right on the front page - I'd load the site periodically just to see if there was a new test up and to grab it. Maybe a dedicated page for technology previews to keep them all in one place.

#108 Divs overlap in IE 5

by bamm <bamm@gabriana.com>

Wednesday September 1st, 2004 11:31 PM

Reply to this message

Where I live a lot of internet cafes that are on windows are still using IE5. On these computers the divs on the site overlap, some text cannot be read. I understand ignoring Netscape 4, but not IE 5.

#113 Re: Divs overlap in IE 5

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 10:33 AM

Reply to this message

Yes, I can confirm some overlapping in IE5.5 as well.

#116 Reply

by Dizzle

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 12:35 PM

Reply to this message

Why? Because IE 5 is 6 years old and not 8 years old?

#119 Re: Reply

by bamm <bamm@gabriana.com>

Friday September 3rd, 2004 2:55 AM

Reply to this message

Because computer hardware that can run the latest windows and explorer is a lot more expensive per capita income in the Philippines than it is there in the States where everybody is rich and can afford a Pentium 4 with Windows XP built in. I hate it when Americans who think the whole world is America make sarcastic better-than-thou comments like that. They should widen their perspective or refrain from talking at all.

#126 Re: Reply

by andkon <andraskonya@hotmail.com>

Friday September 3rd, 2004 6:51 PM

Reply to this message

Unlike Netscape, IE5 and especially 5.5 are still around. 5.5 is the default for any pre-XP computer that three years old or older, which isn't that small a crowd to ignore.

The ugly stick out on blue bar though affects ie6 as well.

#109 Problems with Display of New page

by erik67

Thursday September 2nd, 2004 6:24 AM

Reply to this message

Using Firefox 0.9.3, really love it. I have one gripe with the new web site - <http://www.mozilla.org> text and graphics touch the left edge of the browser window, whereas when viewing in IE (yikes!) there is actually a narrow blank border between the left edge of the text and the edge of the window. What gives? Is this a bug? Otherwise, the new site looks a lot better than the previous one.

#127 Re: Problems with Display of New page

by chinf

Saturday September 4th, 2004 10:00 AM

Reply to this message

I had that problem - it's probably because your Firefox cached the old version of the CSS file - do a Shift-Reload to see the site properly.

#129 Re: Re: Problems with Display of New page

by erik67

Monday September 6th, 2004 6:40 AM

Reply to this message

Thanks. That seems to have fixed the problem.

#120 Opera

by Uruviel

Friday September 3rd, 2004 6:42 AM

Reply to this message

Eeh the upper nav is not parsed correctly in Opera

#122 community

by arielb

Friday September 3rd, 2004 9:37 AM

Reply to this message

I really like that fact that mozilla.org isn't just featuring developers such as original red/black mozilla.org or the product such as the previous one but also the mozilla community through mozilla weblogs and mozillazine news on the front page!

#130 Re: Do-it-yourself theme kit

by ronin65

Monday September 6th, 2004 2:41 PM

Reply to this message

I guess it is not "beta" any more as you get the new one when you go to mozilla.org, but the page seems to me to be an unlikely place for a person new the the project to gain any useful information about what which product does and etc, which is the type of information that a person who has "heard about Mozilla" and wants to see what it is all about would want to know.