Mozilla Foundation Looking for Volunteers
Thursday July 29th, 2004
Blake Ross writes: "The Mozilla Foundation is looking to assemble a small team of highly motivated volunteers to assist us in getting Firefox 1.0 on computing magazine CDs. This will may entail a few phone conversations, and we will assist where possible (especially in those cases where we have contacts). If you're interested, please send mail to blake AT cs DOT stanford DOT edu telling me a little bit about yourself and your background (if relevant). If you're fluent in languages other than English, please also mention that, as we definitely want a few non-English speakers on the team to help us capture international magazines. Thanks everyone!"
#1 I had my doubts...
by aldo_ <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Thursday July 29th, 2004 7:00 PM
But seriously, Firefox is being marketed so damn well. I'm really happy that they are - I feared (back in the old 0.7 Firebird days) that it could all just roll over and be as uninteresting as Mozilla Suite 1.0.
However, now the foundation is starting to kick into gear, they have thought of loads of really great ideas to really market it. They have totally understood the user's perspective - while mozilla suite was really bloated and complex, FireFox is straight to the point, great-looking (imo) and really easy to install, use and even administer. The administer part after is where most opensource projects fall down - look at desktop Linux. Most computer literate users would have no problem using it, or even installing it, but as soon as it comes to changing drivers and settings, it falls on it's ass. Firefox doesn't. The option panel is really well organized, and the extension panel is even more simple and to the point.
In conclusion: All Hail FireFox! :)
#13 Re: I had my doubts...
Friday July 30th, 2004 1:42 AM
I'm glad you're excited. I certainly am. I am overwhelmed by the community's response to all of our initiatives thus far. Microsoft is regrouping and has their sights set on us, and I'm not even worried. They don't have the amazing group of volunteers that we do. I've been working overtime to make all this marketing stuff happen, and let me just say, there are some really exciting things coming in Firefox's future. Stay tuned.
printing is an embarrassment.
no, seriously. the printing is actually personally embarrassing.
i put firefox on some of our desktops, and the users liked it - until they tried to print something. then i get the "what an out-of-touch geek" look, and they go back to IE. if the basic features of the replacement don't work, they don't give a shit about the security aspects.
fix it. (cue the peanut gallery).
no, i can't fix it. but bug ibm or red hat or someone else who gets some market value out of this thing to fix this fundamental flaw, for chrissakes.
#4 Re: Re: why the push lately
Thursday July 29th, 2004 7:58 PM
Maybe you could explain what that "fundamental flaw" in printing is.
Probably many users see bug 154892.
Quite often printing a selection will print only the first page :( <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=219391> <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=243842> <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=203287>
good printing _might_ (nothing sure about this) get a target for Mozilla 2.0 (whatever FF release this will be then), but not for now
...as evidenced by the abovementioned tickets having been open for over two years each.
I could probably get Firefox bundled with a few Mexican Mags in Guadalajara, Mexico. Or atleast given out to Students at my University (5,000+ students), of which 3,500 actively take laptops to the University.
I just don't see a way for getting the mags/school to print them for free. :(
I think the post wasn't about you taking the costs of publishing magazines, but you trying to persuade people from certain PC magazines to publish firefox 1.0 on their Mags CD. (correct me if i'm wrong) You dig? ;-)
why dont you try and get the IT people at the uni to install FF on the unis network as an alternative browser. Tell them you have needs for it or something. I dont think many unis will go burn copies of it unless it was needed, but they might be willing to install it.
As for mags, typically most PC mags dont get paid to put software on the CD. If their readers want the content they will add it where they legally can. This is assuming the mag u mention has a monthly cd, if they do u have a good chance.
#12 I'd rather see the suite on these CDs
Friday July 30th, 2004 1:25 AM
because I, like many others, still prefer it over Firefox.
#14 Re: I'd rather see the suite on these CDs
Friday July 30th, 2004 2:06 AM
The suite is not intended for end-users.
#15 Re: Re: I'd rather see the suite on these CDs
Friday July 30th, 2004 4:02 AM
I'm sure you meant "The suite is not intended for end-users that don't want to think when using computers."
Not all people outside the Mozilla Foundation offices are what you call end-users; especially those who can influence the internet to be a better place for everything Mozilla. Accepting that this kind of people exists does not harm, does it?
#20 Re: Re: Re: I'd rather see the suite on these CDs
Friday July 30th, 2004 1:52 PM
I acknowledge the existence of those people. I also acknowledge that Mozilla 1.7 is not and was never designed to be a product for the masses. Therefore, lobbying to have it included on CD's bundled with the PC magazines sent to people's home (as was the proposal) does not make sense.
that the suite was not intended for the masses. That does not change the fact that firefox has in comparison with the suite a lot of design flaws and shortcomings that make it just inacceptable for many users. Apart from this the whole concept of dividing the apps has still not produced something where one can use the different apps (TB, FB and the others) in an integrated way - instead each app has their own redundant but differnt libs and many features of an integrated suite are missing. I have tried again and again to make the switch but always come back to the suite, simply because FB sucks.
Thanks Johann, I'm one of the (hopefully) many people that prefer the suite. Perhaps a "Friends of the Mozilla Suite" group could bring some light to it?
Following your redundant libs thread, whenever I need a fast, slim browser, Firefox is a leaking resource hog. When I need a serious browser and email solution, the suite performs pretty well. FF sucks.
I have been able to switch to FireFox and ThunderBird, but I can't say the same for my Mom. She so heavily uses the "send page" feature where it also attaches the html inside the email, that I can't even think about switching her over until that is in the browser and mail products and not only the suite.
That said, everyone except for the president uses either the suite or mozilla for email at my company, and we are switching people over the thunderbird when it is convenient, and everyone has liked Thunderbird better.
#22 Re: The suite is not intended for end-users.
Friday July 30th, 2004 2:21 PM
What's wrong with the suite? These days, one gets the impression that the Suite causes cancer, brings about the end of days and was sent to us by the evil one himself, whereas Firefox cures AIDS, gives multiple...you know what..., and will bring world peace.
Seriously: Why not put Firefox, Thunderbbird AND the Mozilla Suite and let the end user decide what they wish to use? A CD does hold about 700MB, so there is enough space for all of them.
#23 Re: Re: The suite is not intended for end-users.
Friday July 30th, 2004 4:36 PM
Because as fun as it sounds, companies generally don't create two products to accomplish the same thing and then have them compete with one another. Firefox is Mozilla's end-user browser going forward. It doesn't mean the suite causes cancer, or that nobody can ever use the suite again. It just means that Firefox is *the* browser that the Mozilla will market.
#30 Re: Re: The suite is not intended for end-users.
Saturday July 31st, 2004 3:25 AM
As a matter of fact, companies do exactly that. Look e.g. at how many different editions there are of Microsoft Office. You can also look at car manufacturers where the platform strategy - offering a variety of models that are based on the same technical platform - is the norm nowadays. In terms of software, that would be versioning.
I am very hard pressed to think of a company that offers just one product. I do understand that the Mozilla foundation only has limited resources, but I honestly don't see where a coexistence of the Suite and Firefox would hurt.
#16 Re: I'd rather see the suite on these CDs
Friday July 30th, 2004 4:45 AM
The way I see it is that Firefox is the ultimate way to wean people off of Internet Explorer. IE users that I've shown Mozilla to have taken one glance and never used it again. Show them Firefox and it's a different story.
Whether people use Firefox or Mozilla Suite doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is that we get as many users as possible to stop using IE. Only then can the web finally advance and we can start using useful things like CSS3 and Web Forms 2.
This project is all about getting Firefox as much exposure as possible to people who have never heard of it, therefore distributing Firefox on CD rather than the suite is a very good policy (if you include both it'll only confuse people and those who want the suite will know full well where it can be downloaded from).
I could be responsible for contacting the Swedish Computer mags. (We may only be 9 million Swedes, but we sure use the web ALOT.)
#21 Maximum PC Magazine
Friday July 30th, 2004 2:12 PM
Older versions of Firefox have already been on the Maximum PC CD, and I can pretty much guarantee that the 1.0 release will also be on our disk.
For the most part, the editorial staff here has switched to Firefox as their primary browser. Personally I've been using some version of Firefox as my main browser since it was still called Phoenix, and I can't imagine going back to IE.
Sadly, there are still one or two IE holdouts, but we'll continue working on them.
///Will Smith Technical Editor Maximum PC Magazine
This is such a great post, showing the human side of mag editors...
Seriously, though, I just want to put in one last reminder of the flop that was Mozilla 1.0. Sure it made everything else that followed possible, but it did turn off many people, including me, from many releases that followed. I just hope UI issues get some recognition (not that I'm COMPLAINING).
I am trying to contact a couple of magazines for this. Being weekend, their reponse may only come on Monday.
#28 Re: Contacting....
Friday July 30th, 2004 5:44 PM
I appreciate your help and your enthusiasm, but in the future, please work with us before contacting magazines, since we're trying to coordinate all this, and we don't want to bother magazines about this multiple times. Could you e-mail me (blake AT cs DOT stanford DOT edu) about joining the bundling team?
Hi Blake, I had just emailed them asking if they had already included Firefox/Thunderbird in their MagCD. And I was planning to forward them to you in case them seem interested. Anyway, I'll send an email to you for joining the team.
lets just hope FF 1.0 is something worth people trying. If it aint this sort of thing will only add to the problems when people try 1.0, find it doesn't work how they want and never come back again. I'd rather see 1.0 put back months, even years, than see it released with lots of unfixed bugs and needed features, as is the history with mozilla products
#34 Re: lets just hope
Monday August 2nd, 2004 2:00 AM
We don't have "months, even years." We're not living in a dream world, developing in a vaccuum where competition doesn't exist and Microsoft is irrelevant. Microsoft has kickstarted the IE team again and is preparing to release XP SP2 any day now which will severely undermine some of our top features. Your idealist mindset is shared by many in the community, but really needs to be fixed if anyone wants the Mozilla project to exist a year from now.
Of course, the argument could be made that since SP2 will not work on a likely majority of IE installs, there's not quite so much to worry about. (Not that I think it's nonzero, by any means.)
Heck, possible marketing point: "Mozilla Firefox - More features than IE in XP SP2, but none of the costs!" (Or something like that.)
I would imagine PC Format in the UK will put 1.0 onto CD's as from what I've seen in there mag lately all there screenshots of websites seem to be using firefox and not IE like they used to :-)
#37 what really needs to be done, in my opinion
Friday November 26th, 2004 7:47 PM
Many ISPs give away install discs, which are mainly used by the hardest segment of the browsing population to reach. These are the ones who don't care, who will use what they are told so long as it works, if we can start targetting these then firefox/thunderbird and firefox can reach the masses.
For my part I am going to have some setup guides on my ISPs website as soon as thunderbird hits v1.0. We are a small ISP however, but we DO try to move our customers away from outlook & outlook express where possible. Getting the majors in on this could be a MAJOR coup. Changing browsers is a harder nut to crack than changing email programs which is a lot easier. It also exposes them to the work of the mozilla foundation and makes them candidates for switching.
Techno literate users are already moving our way, I see it happening in the forums and where I work, they are spreading it well by word of mouth. In a short forums thread we got 3-4 people to change, which will of course cascade down to their friends and friends of friends etc.