Mozilla Foundation Looking for Names of Organizations That Have Switched to Mozilla

Sunday July 18th, 2004

Bart Decrem writes: "The Mozilla Foundation is looking for examples of companies or organizations that have moved from IE to Mozilla-based browsers in the last few weeks. Please chime in if you know of any!"

#1 This URL

by Ark42

Sunday July 18th, 2004 3:15 PM

Unfortunately, browsing to in firefox locks firefox up. No other URL seems to do that, but I had to open IE just to post this message here.

#3 Re: This URL

by aquarichy

Sunday July 18th, 2004 4:35 PM

This problems seems to be you-specific.

#4 Re: Re: This URL

by aquarichy

Sunday July 18th, 2004 4:41 PM

Er, I mean, not a universal problem. Sorry.

#7 Re: This URL

by buff

Sunday July 18th, 2004 5:28 PM

I just checked out that link in a nightly of Firefox 0.9 and the page loaded just fine for me.

#116 Re: Re: This URL

by beastie

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 11:50 PM

I get this problem on one computer but not another. That points to a profile problem, but I haven't been able to track it down yet.

#117 Re: This URL

by beastie

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 11:55 PM

I just found that bug 251064 ( has been fixed on the trunk. Hopefully this is the problem that both of us have run into.

#123 Re: Re: This URL

by Ark42

Saturday July 24th, 2004 8:33 PM

I found the problem was very similar to this, but my problem was actually a lot of bogus form data that firefox imported into the stored passwords when I migrated from Mozilla 1.7 to FireFox 0.9.2

#2 Laws

by PC1

Sunday July 18th, 2004 4:28 PM

As long as security is low on every body's list, very few people/companies will switch. For example, even with all the viruses going thru outlook, you do not see anyone switching to Eudora, Pegasus, Opera M2, Thunderbird or others... Even with all the damage, data loss, and cost due to the security bugs, you do not see any legislator putting a bill to make software companies accountable. Ford and Bridgestone were taken to court for the few faulty tires, and yet the millions of dollars lost due to outlook and windows go unnoticed; money that could have been used in saving lives, vaccination, etc... currently the drive is to try to get the virus writer which is stupid!

If laws are made addressing the accountability of software companies, then we will see some changes. I do not expect a program to be bug proof, buy the way outlook works is ridiculous.

This may be a bit off topic, but these are my 2 cents!

#5 Re: Laws

by thelem

Sunday July 18th, 2004 5:04 PM

Sorry to bring this even more off topic.

> currently the drive is to try to get the virus writer which is stupid!

I disagree, we need a stratagy of good security AND strong deterants to virus/malware writers. As long as a computer has some way of inputting and outputting data, there will be some way to abuse that computer. The more ways to input and output data you add, the easier you make it to abuse the computer. You just need to get the balance right between functionality, development time and security. Microsoft seem to have gone more for the functionality than security, eg ActiveX (I can't comment on dev time).

#6 Re: Laws

by Galik

Sunday July 18th, 2004 5:15 PM

I think this is a very dangerous direction indeed. Who would write software if they were likely to be sued over it? It would be imo very damaging to free software developers who could not afford to take out legal insurance against this. Microsoft however would not have a problem. They can afford it. Users should be accountable for their actions imo. Let's face it if an IT manager is not aware of important bugs/security risks then he shouldn't be in the job. If he is aware and he continues to take the risk, it's his fault.

#11 Re: Re: Laws

by PC1

Sunday July 18th, 2004 6:29 PM

As I said " I do not expect a program to be bug proof, buy the way outlook works is ridiculous." Even a well developed software as Mozilla/Opera will have security bugs, but when entire networks for companies, hospitals, etc... are down recurrently due to a single software company, then the legislators should intervene.

"Users should be accountable for their actions imo." I agree with you, but in the case of outlook & IE user input frequently does not make any difference.

" if an IT manager is not aware of important bugs/security risks then he shouldn't be in the job." I once accidentally found traces a key logger in a hospital; a resident has placed it and he confessed. The IT people did not do sh*t about it even with the HIPAA looming in the horizon. The same applies to M$ products. Even with all the security bugs IT people refuse to support any other product. The decision is usually taken at a higher level by people who work at the business model; they take the whole package and go by the saying "if it works, don't break it". People who suggest change are looked upon as a nuisance. Even if they are aware of some of the security risks, they will go with the flow of the market and do what other institutions are doing. The HIPAA has helped in correcting most of the business model flaws at least in the medical field, but other fields are still a mess. IT people just wait for M$ to fix the bug since most other people are doing the same.

"It would be imo very damaging to free software developers who could not afford to take out legal insurance against this." 1) Free/OSS software developers can have this covered in the license. Look around you, OSS most of the times has better security than the commercial counterpart. 2) With OSS, the testing &/or reliability of the product can be left up to the client/company. In the Lab testing field, many tests are not FDA certified; the lab has the control samples and provides the data when ever requested in a court or an internal/external inspection. Why can't software be treated the same way. It may be easier for software since many of the OSS products are continuously updated/modified and the operating environment does not have as much unpredictable variables as in laboratory testing. The last point may be very far ahead but is just a thought.

#66 Re: Re: Re: Laws - legislators intervene?

by DOF

Monday July 19th, 2004 8:48 AM

"when entire networks for companies, hospitals, etc... are down recurrently due to a single software company, then the legislators should intervene."

NO they shouldn't. Most of those guys can't set the radio buttons on their Cadillacs. Do you really want them screwing around with the way software works? The only thing the legislature should do is protect innovation, and let the marketplace take care of the rest.

#118 The real reason they can't set their radios...

by zizzybalooba

Thursday July 22nd, 2004 7:43 AM

Is that that the chauffeur is in the front seat!

#76 Re: Re: Re: Laws

by Galik

Monday July 19th, 2004 11:11 AM

We both agree there is a big problem with some software. My point is that legislation is a very bad and blunt tool for the job of sorting it out. Imagine having to craft a law that outlaws the distributing of security holed products that permeate the majority of institutions and that keep a country running whilst at the same time not including Joe Wibble who knocks out a small program that does something useful and so is used by (almost) everyone but which is also found to have a security hole. Putting the difference in to words is a very difficult task. Lawyers spend their life looking at legislation and seeing how they can twist it to their clients bidding. I would not trust the legislature to get this right. I would not trust the legislature to not take backhanders from the likes of some monopoly organisation to word it a particular way. Even through the front door the likes of Microsoft could have a strong lobbying impact on any such laws. This is far too dangerous an area to get into. In fact I suspect big business would just *love* to increase the amount of legislation aroung software development.

#8 enterprise features

by flacco

Sunday July 18th, 2004 5:28 PM

you'd probably see a LOT more defections to FF/TB if a few enterprise-friendly features were added:

- easily cusomizable installs - automatic profile customization and management - roaming profiles (mail and browser)

the security issues get the foot in the door, but these kinds of features would close the deal.

#51 Re: enterprise features

by solbergn

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:00 AM

I personally run about 50 machines, half Mac and half Windows. I also work at a computer shop where every machine we send out has FireFox for browsing. I have migrated to Thunderbird for most of our emailing needs here, on both PC's and a couple Macs. My users love the interface and feature set that kicks O.E. in the butt. However, I very much agree with the need for more administrator-friendly functions. I would love to see, at the least, an import/export for a Thunderbird profile. The worst thing that can happen is a user's profile gets hosed in Windows 2k/XP and you have to get Thunderbird back up and running. Also some more specific options for importing from Outlook and Eudora, like where the files are to import. Maybe making it a little easier to pull in files from crashed OS's, I would start shipping TB instead of Outlook Express on new machines aswell. There is a similar need in Firefox, but not so much, since bookmarks are pretty easy for the user to recreate.

#9 Only large companies/organizations?

by Sander

Sunday July 18th, 2004 5:59 PM

I've had friends in more than one place tell me that they've finally managed to switch (the CERT recommendation really has helped), but most of these work at small places (I have no idea how small, but I think they all fall in the 5-50 seats range) that no one will ever have heard about. Are their tales interesting (if so, I suspect you'll get hundrds if not thousands of replies), or are you looking only for switches which actually have potential impact outside of such small companies?

#10 what MS left behind

by arielb

Sunday July 18th, 2004 6:08 PM

my strategy would be to go after those that are using windows 98/2000. They won't be able to upgrade to XP SP2 and won't benefit from the few upgrades to IE.

#47 Re: what MS left behind

by martrootamm

Monday July 19th, 2004 4:24 AM

Remember that Microsoft developed Internet Explorer 6 for Windows 98, too. So if they are going to release an update to IE, it is very likely some of the updates to IE might also be released for IE in Windows 98/Me/2000.

#65 Re: Re: what MS left behind

by CritterNYC

Monday July 19th, 2004 8:38 AM

Microsoft has previously stated that they will only be updating IE within Windows XP and only through Service Packs.

#12 Better MS Exchange support required for Corporates

by Milhouse

Sunday July 18th, 2004 6:59 PM

Corporates using MS Exchange won't consider Thunderbird without better Exchange support since they want the "groupware" features such as centralised contacts, calendars, to-do lists, shared/delegated diaries and (most importanly) meeting invites which Thunderbird doesn't support.

It's no use comparing Thunderbird to Outlook in a Corporate+MS Exchange environment as Outlook provides much more functionality than just a simple email client. Thunderbird is most likely to be taken up by small firms, where it makes a great deal of sense.

Until Thunderbird supports the same features as Outlook on an Exchange platform it's going to be hard for Thunderbird to compete - arguably that user base probably isn't the primary focus right now and will require a great deal more developer involvement since MS Exchange is a potentially moving target, but it would be great if Thunderbird could at some point in the future be considered a replacement for Outlook as an Exchange client.

#13 Re: Better MS Exchange support required for Corpor

by nentuaby

Sunday July 18th, 2004 7:43 PM

Thing is, I don't think we really want to ever make Thunderbird an Outlook-style "everything and its mother client." It's a mail/news client, much like a secure and stable version of Outlook Express. Other functionality, if it's going to exist, is going to belong to other programs. Hence the Sunbird project, which you may or may not know about; it's a third installment in the next-generation application family, this one a calendar client.

#16 Re: Re: Better MS Exchange support required for Corpor

by PC1

Sunday July 18th, 2004 7:57 PM

Thunderbird need not be like outlook. All I need (as a start) is to be able to set Thunderbird to work with Exchange server. At work, I still use the web-interface of the exchange server and log-in using Firfox or Opera. I expect Opera mail cleint (may be M3!) to have that before Thunderbird.

Maybe IBM (thru Lotus) will have a client which will work with their Domino stuff and also replce outlook (i.e. be able to interface with Exchange server) although I doubt its worth it for IBM.

#71 Re: Re: Re: Better MS Exchange support required fo

by space

Monday July 19th, 2004 9:58 AM

Find out if IMAP is trned on on your Exchange server. It works well with Mozilla mail and Thunderbird for everything except the calendar.

#23 Re: Re: Better MS Exchange support required for Co

by Milhouse

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:33 PM

You might be right, maybe we don't want to make Thunderbird into an Outlook-clone - but unless Thunderbird can compete head to head with Outlook it's not going to stand a chance in a Corporate environment. Getting a Corporate to sanction the use of Thunderbird as a supported product in the IT infrastructure (as a replacement for Outlook or as an alternative) is simply not going to happen if that Corporate has to support additional apps (over and above Thunderbird, such as Sunbird) in order for the user to obtain the benefits of a full-featured Groupware product. Corporates want to support as few apps as possible, if Sunbird is required for Calendar, and "xyzbird" for Diary then it just won't happen.

And as the other poster states - better Exchange integration is essential, even to just read and post email. Groupware functionality is the icing on the cake, but it sounds like it will never happen in a way that can compete with Outlook which is a shame, since I doubt the organisation I work for (with 70,000 Windows XP desktops) will ever consider replacing Outlook with Thunderbird if a raft of add-on products are required as well.

The organisation I work for has recently approved the use of NS7 (and derivatives, ie. Gecko-based Mozilla/Firefox) browsers which should help undermine IE as the browser of choice for our web developers. :)


#72 Re: Re: Re: Better MS Exchange support required fo

by jgraham

Monday July 19th, 2004 10:01 AM

> better Exchange integration is essential

And, I suspect, exceptionally unlikely. If you choose to use a server product which uses a proprietry protocol kept secret so that only the server vendor can release compatible client software, you've pretty much screwed your ability to pick and choose client software.

I suppose it might be possible to reverse engineer the protocol but I can only imagine this functionality making Mozilla prooducts if a third party does the reverse engineering and releases full specs to work from. I know that the (now GPL) Ximian connector allows access to some features of exchange but I don't know if they've released documentation that other people could work from.

#107 Re: Better MS Exchange support require

by bjornte

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 6:24 AM

Apple supports the Exchange protocol in their mail client so it must be feasible.

#54 Re: Re: Better MS Exchange support required for Co

by Mat79

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:26 AM

Maybe it would be an Idea for Mozilla 2.0 (not thunderbird 2.0) to include Groupware features?

#83 Re: Re: Re: Better MS Exchange support required fo

by algarcia

Monday July 19th, 2004 4:53 PM

Novell probably will produce a Windows port of Evolution [1]. This is a great and free groupware suite with integrated connectivity to Microsoft Exchange. Maybe could be interesting for Mozilla, to focus on web browsing and site authoring applications.


#73 Re: Re: Better MS Exchange support required for Co

by johnlar

Monday July 19th, 2004 10:04 AM

But sunbird stinks, badly. Come on, you know it does.

#26 Re: Better MS Exchange support required for Corpor

by Milhouse

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:46 PM

I wonder why I ever posted about Thunderbird in this thread when the subject clearly asks about organisations adopting Mozilla-based browsers! :embarassed: :)

Anyway my point about Thunderbird and Exchange users remains (IMHO) valid as we'll never use it unless it can compete with Outlook feature for feature, and right now it cannot.

To get this back on topic, as stated in my other post, my Organisation has recently sanctioned the use of Mozilla based browsers internally, and every oppurtunity I get I remind people (mostly developers) to switch away from IE to Mozilla/Firefox and to develop sites with cross-browser support. Not having a great deal of success right now although hopefully "laying the seeds", but the development team I'm responsible for has no choice - muhahahaha. :) The web site my team develop is for clients (you can only access it if you have a $100million to put down, I work for an investment bank) and recently some of our clients have been accessing the site using Netscape 7 (on both Windows and Linux) which is heartening - the CERT anouncement really has had an effect..

#41 Now we're just being silly...

by feepcreature

Monday July 19th, 2004 2:59 AM

If you're doing web development, the web developer plugin for firefox looks rather useful. And maybe venkman might be good for debugging...

If it makes their life easier, they may think it worth "the hassle" to switch (or at least to try a new browser side-by-side with their familiar one).


#80 Re: Now we're just being silly...

by bheerssen

Monday July 19th, 2004 3:22 PM

If you are doing general web development, you should already be using every browser you can lay your hands on. For testing if nothing else.

Another useful tool for web developers is livehttpheaders.

#70 imap

by space

Monday July 19th, 2004 9:55 AM

Ever use Mozilla Mail or Thunderbird connected to Exchange via IMAP? It has all the necessary features outlook has except for the calendar. Hopefully this will be handled by Sunbird (Calendar) else theres always ical.

#84 Re: Better MS Exchange support required for Corpor

by slippytoad

Monday July 19th, 2004 5:46 PM

Of course you don't need to use Exchange at all any more to get the same features, you can use Scalix which is kind of like Exchange for Linux without the Windows (or Microsoft) part!

#14 Library Use

by xan

Sunday July 18th, 2004 7:47 PM

I'm the administrator at a medium-sized independent public library in the Austin area. Several months ago I switched all our public access computers to Firefox (and Linux, and KDE).

There were some sites that wouldn't work, although we haven't run across that problem recently. And with the systems set up this way, we can guarantee patrons' privacy from each other (wiped home directory every logout), we can easily synchronize the machines with a central image at night, and we're immune from 99%+ of software exploits on the 'Net. It also means I can spend my time creating new programs and systems for the library, rather than dinking with Windows all day.

Not long ago, every public access computer in the Austin library system was paralyzed for several days by a wandering Windows virus. We were sitting pretty at that point! :-)

#15 Migrating to Mozilla

by SomeGuy

Sunday July 18th, 2004 7:50 PM

What I have been recommending to various people lately, even if the company or agency is not planning on switching, make sure that all internal web applications and web pages are fully compatible with Mozilla. This way if there ever is a switch it will go over more smoothly. (Plus you never know when you have to open an app up to the outside world).

Unfortunately no one ever listens to me. :(

#17 Canada's 2nd largest library system

by simonp

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:06 PM

At our central Vancouver library, I noticed recently mozilla had been added to the public internet access points. Whether this was in the last few weeks, I don't know. Vancouver has Canada's 2nd largest library system, and the central branch receives millions of vistors year. It is also understood to be a leader in electronic resources. The staff are great too (no, I don't work there).

My dad recently switched to Mozilla. Does that count as an organization?

Vancouver Public Library:

#22 Woops

by simonp

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:30 PM

Make that the 3rd largest library system. Want to be an honest booster for my hometown, afterall...

#18 County Library

by vip

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:14 PM

Howard County Library in Maryland ( switched some time ago to Linux and Mozilla on their public access computers in all branches.

#19 Switched back to IE due to severe printing issues

by dgtlmoon

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:18 PM

I tried using mozilla to replace an office I became an admin for who were running InternetExplorer, however a lot of the desktops have gone back to using InternetExplorer because most web-sites just do not print correctly.

I understand this bug has been open for just over two years, whats been going on? How can we find the people to fix the serious bugs that are stopping Mozilla from being "taken seriously", I tried posting this to slashdot but it seems like the opensource geeks just dont want to know about it and my article never made it to the site.

Lots of pages just do not print correctly, it's not fair to say "Well those pages should change the way they do their layout"

#98 Please test!

by doron

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 4:31 PM

Nobody works on printing these days, anyone who did was at Netscape and is gone.

#20 there's probably not a lot

by alcatraz52

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:20 PM

Two things IE has going for it in -Active directory-type one click magic -and for libraries and stuff, all the kiosk guides are xul and js hacks. There's no tools for this stuff if I'm not mistaken -CCK? Would help promote FF to ISPs..

#25 Re: there's probably not a lot

by dgtlmoon

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:33 PM

3 things - printing works :)

#69 Re: Re: there's probably not a lot

by jilles

Monday July 19th, 2004 9:50 AM

and firefox even scales your images. Really great when you have stuff that wouldn't fit on the page otherwise.

#30 Re: there's probably not a lot

by dgtlmoon

Sunday July 18th, 2004 10:22 PM

3 things - printing works :)

#21 oops that's 3 things

by alcatraz52

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:23 PM

My line breaks didn't go through thanks to Links :P I'm installing Slackware still (got bored waiting for dropline stuff..) and I would never otherwise trade this thing in for Firefox ;)

#24 Mozilla Success Story

by cspenn

Sunday July 18th, 2004 8:33 PM

We're an aggressive small business based south of Boston, one of the quietly prospering dotcoms that didn't get razed by the bubble bursting. About a year ago, I was brought on to help manage the many technology challenges facing our company, and one of them was taming the chaos of the Internet from an end-user perspective. Mozilla FireSomething was exactly what the doctor ordered to reduce chaos and help bring safer browsing to the company. Combined with Thunderbird's built in spam reduction, our use of Mozilla products and the switch away from Microsoft-based products has kept us safe from a majority of exploits available today. We've even begun developing to take advantage of Mozilla's unique features, like tabbed browsing, which expedites the processing of student loans. No more browsing with hundreds of IE instances open, just one clean, easy to manage browser interface with tabs. If you ever call in to to have your federal student loans consolidated, the clicking sound you hear in the background is our in house loan consolidation application and several tabs in Firefox being opened just for you.

Kudos to the Mozilla team for making our work more productive than ever!

#29 Re: Mozilla Success Story

by Gnu

Sunday July 18th, 2004 9:49 PM

That's kinda neat to hear how specific features like tabbed browsing helps business productivity. I think these are the sorts of things that need to be pushed, since security is, sadly, an intangible entity in most offices.

I can't say that Firefox is "faster" than the other popular browsers, but it certainly lets me work faster. Productivity boosters are like dollar signs in the eyes of office managers, and it's even better when the software is free.

#27 We've all switched to the better browser

by rsayers

Sunday July 18th, 2004 9:01 PM

I work for an ISP in mississippi. At some point a friend of mine outside the company suggested I try something called Firebird... I had heard of mozilla, but was unaware of its lighter counterpart. Well of course it was instant bliss and I told a few coworkers about it the next day, and in no time at all, almost every single employee was using it as their main browser. Many employees (including myself) have also switched to thunderbird for email.

I'm also using sunfire to handle my schedule... and I think there's a couple more using it as well.

What is sort of remarkable about this is the fact that we are pretty regulated on what browser we have to use in our department (web design), so the fact that the powers that be were so impressed by a beta browser to allow it on production machines as the full time browser is siginifigant.

#28 the switch

by rsarver

Sunday July 18th, 2004 9:44 PM

my small 30-person software company made the big switch this week. I personally have been using Firefox for a while, and i would never force a company-wide switch unless I felt that we were at risk. Then suddenly last week, everyone in our company had their IE hijacked by a scumware app, so we made the company-wide switch. It has made all of my developers happy, since the Developer Extension is the single-best download available right now.

Thanks to the mozilla team for putting together such a stellar product.

#31 the switch

by GameBit

Sunday July 18th, 2004 10:37 PM

Our small company (~30 people) switched to Mozilla and Firefox for about a half a year now.

#32 S.A.B.R.O. Net Security switch to Moz

by Sabronet

Sunday July 18th, 2004 11:29 PM

We here at S.A.B.R.O. Net Security have made the switch to FireFox and Thunderbird from Netscape and Eudora for inhouse use and recommend Moz products to a majority of our clients!

S.A.B.R.O. Net Security It's all you need ... to know

#33 I have

by xbmodder

Sunday July 18th, 2004 11:31 PM

My company is switching over to mozilla. One of the main resons we are doing so is to block pop-ups and deter intruders. We recieved almost 30 IE ploits a week. Now maybe 2. i love u mozilla

#34 I have

by xbmodder

Sunday July 18th, 2004 11:35 PM

My company is switching over to mozilla. One of the main resons we are doing so is to block pop-ups and deter intruders. We recieved almost 30 IE ploits a week. Now maybe 2. i love u mozilla

#35 Props to the Mozilla team!!

by barf

Sunday July 18th, 2004 11:51 PM

I am a self-employed techie in Christchurch, New Zealand and have been proselytizing the use of Mozilla over IE for years now. Mozilla Firefox has saved the three internet cafes i support countless hours of tech support to reinstall windows after IE-infecting spyware renders the OS teminally ill. In the i-cafe environment IE is possibly close to its most damaging potential, and so I now laugh whenever i see an internet cafe that uses IE as its only browser, knowing they probably have to reinstall their systems every other month.

#36 Waiting for post 1.0?

by pointwood

Monday July 19th, 2004 12:16 AM

I could imagine that lots of companies would hesitate installing a "technology preview" of a browser as their primary browser. They will probably wait for 1.0 or even 1.1 or something like that. Yes, I he wrote "Mozilla based browsers" but Firefox is what everyone is talking about, so...

#37 Mozilla Runs in all the comps I end up touching!

by ozzy1644

Monday July 19th, 2004 12:59 AM

I will say first of all that Mozilla rules I don't perfer any other browser. I go to the University of California Santa Cruz , and they have installed Mozilla in all of there PCs, but still make explorer available(and the whole computer geek commuity uses it there). Also I am currently helping my workplace at Online Motors to swtich to FireFox and by like the end of this week it will be done. P.S Any comp that I get to fix and have serious spyware I install spybot remove the spyware install FireFox and show the wonders of it; people usually get crazy/suckers about the Tabs, built in search, and popup blocker!

#38 UC Santa Cruz

by mishan

Monday July 19th, 2004 1:14 AM

At UC Santa Cruz, all the machines in the labs have Firefox and/or Mozilla installed on them. I've seen Windows machines refer to Firefox as "Internet Explorer Replacement" or something to that degree.

#39 switched - not recently and not from IE

by jtischler

Monday July 19th, 2004 1:18 AM

The Faction of the green party in the Austrian parliament switched to Mozilla completly about 2 and half years ago. While upgrading the workstation OS (to W2K) we had to switch browsers, because we were using Netscape 4.7 to that point. So we gave Mozilla a try. And since then up to 80 users very rarely complain!

#40 Mozilla at the National Library of Wales

by Bryn_S

Monday July 19th, 2004 2:07 AM

We at the National Library of wales ( converted to using Mozilla about 6 months ago using our customised version and locked down preferences for all 305 members of staff. Our customised version also included the Welsh language packs ( and "Roaming Profiles" (the profiles are stored on a remote share which is mapped when the user logs in - a DOS Shell Script re-maps the share if the user moves machine). I've written a howto which I'm currently hosting on my own wesbsite ( Feel free to email me if you want some more information.

We are also developing system using Firefox on LTSP ( powered thin clients for use in our readers room (for people to browse our catalogue or make requests for books) which is proving to be sucessful, we hope to give the system a full launch in early September.


#42 What's the focus of this fora?

by avancedata

Monday July 19th, 2004 3:13 AM

Hey, why all the digressions into whether Firebird/Thunderbird is better that Microsoft-ware? Aren't we supposed to concentrate on news about institutions changing over to 'Zilla-powered stuff? If we can't be as focused as the opposition, we'll never triumph and remain discordant voices in the wilderness (or cyberspace if you so prefer :)

Yes, my company has switched over to Firefox for Browsing (Windows & Linux), and Thunderbird for Email after we found these apps by virtue of being non-Microsoft developed don't receive the same explicit Kernel use permissions that IE and the Outlook family do! Users are happy, the interface is pretty good (could be improved more tho). Firefox has a speedy render engine; uncluttered by post-hole patches. And Thunderbird can do it all.

We still have to use IE to test solutions because most of our clients still use it! But pages are checked in a custom-built (and locked-down) localhost setup.

#58 Re: What's the focus of this fora?

by arielb

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:58 AM

it's important to know the reasons why everyone else hasn't switched

#101 Re: Re: What's the focus of this fora?

by dgtlmoon

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 5:05 PM

yeh i totall agree.

Ive seen way to many finger shaking opensource geeks say mozilla is the best thing since sliced bread, but there are still a few issues with it that really need attention before it can be taken seriously in a corperate environment. (such as some printing issues)

It is intresting how little you hear about "Why havent you changed to xxxx opensource project/product"

I think you have a valid point.

#43 For unattended systems, Mozilla is the way forward

by gerryk

Monday July 19th, 2004 3:31 AM

My company manufactures Public Internet Kiosks which we place in various places such as shopping malls/centres etc. When we started off, we used a Win2K solution with a custom browser package based on the IE DLLs. As you can imagine, more time was spent rebooting hung kiosks and so on than installing new sites. After about 5 months of this madness, I approached the boss and suggested that we migrate to Linux. At this stage I was completely unaware of the XUL UI/Application framework. Imagine the pleasant surprise I got during investigation when I realised that I could build the entire kiosk using just Mozilla and a few other programs. Now, one year on, our uptime is upwards of 95%, the administration of the network (now 200 machines+) is much simpler than the 60 odd Windows machines in the past. All in all, it's been a good year :)

#44 Coffeeshop -> Firefox

by Headbang

Monday July 19th, 2004 3:39 AM

Hi, I work for a coffeeshop in Holland, at the moment we have a small setup of 2 computers for public use. 1 is already running Debian/GNU equipped with: xfce4, Gimp, Steam (testing CS/Half-Life), RTCW, FAKK2 Firefox 0.9.*. As a MSN client we use dMSN ( which is made in java and is quite acceptible for people who are not used to alternative software. The other machine is still running Windows (98) with the same games, and also Firefox. People do not make use of the tabbed browsing function yet, but people who are regular`s are often tipped by me... and thus they start enjoying the tabbed browser feature. The only real problem I have with both system is that some Java gaming sites run to slow (i.e. throwing darts, the darts move to slow to the board), but this is probably just a hardware problem.

Headbang We also have about 4 private machines in the building for administrating, recently I installed FireFox and Thunderbird on 1 of the machines (win98), a recently acuireqed laptop is being installed with Debian/GNU and firefox to, in the beginning the user of the laptop didn`t event wanted internet connected to the machine, but since FireFox and Thunderbird are running on the Windows 98 machine, he feels happy enough with it.

As the rest for the machines, they still use windows and payed software, like adobe and Office. The machine (Win98) which runs Firefox/Thunderbird will move when the laptop is done and will also be converted to a Debian/GNU setup. It will run OpenOffice, Scrubbiz, Gimp, Firefox and Thunderbird.

As im working on a pam-usb internet pay method the whole public part is going to run Debian/GNU, the games (c-strike and halflice etc etc) run better then on the windows machine..


#45 We changed

by Morat

Monday July 19th, 2004 3:40 AM

Simply because of the security issues with IE. We now have 40 seats running on 2k/XP with firefox. We still use Outlook for email and contacts because we need the group scheduling abilities of Exchange server, but its a lot easier to scan incoming email with antivirus systems than it is to keep IE secure. OK, we're only a small company, but small companies move faster than large ones. My users (generally NOT at all tech savvy) are very happy with their new browser, so its been a smooth transition.

#46 Coffeeshop -> Firefox

by Headbang

Monday July 19th, 2004 3:46 AM

Hi, I work for a coffeeshop in Holland, at the moment we have a small setup of 2 computers for public use. 1 is already running Debian/GNU equipped with: xfce4, Gimp, Steam (testing CS/Half-Life), RTCW, FAKK2 Firefox 0.9.*. As a MSN client we use dMSN ( which is made in java and is quite acceptible for people who are not used to alternative software. The other machine is still running Windows (98) with the same games, and also Firefox. People do not make use of the tabbed browsing function yet, but people who are regular`s are often tipped by me... and thus they start enjoying the tabbed browser feature. The only real problem I have with both system is that some Java gaming sites run to slow (i.e. throwing darts, the darts move to slow to the board), but this is probably just a hardware problem.

Headbang We also have about 4 private machines in the building for administrating, recently I installed FireFox and Thunderbird on 1 of the machines (win98), a recently acuireqed laptop is being installed with Debian/GNU and firefox to, in the beginning the user of the laptop didn`t event wanted internet connected to the machine, but since FireFox and Thunderbird are running on the Windows 98 machine, he feels happy enough with it.

As the rest for the machines, they still use windows and payed software, like adobe and Office. The machine (Win98) which runs Firefox/Thunderbird will move when the laptop is done and will also be converted to a Debian/GNU setup. It will run OpenOffice, Scrubbiz, Gimp, Firefox and Thunderbird.

As im working on a pam-usb internet pay method the whole public part is going to run Debian/GNU, the games (c-strike and halflice etc etc) run better then on the windows machine..


#48 Integrated Windows Authentication

by MightyE

Monday July 19th, 2004 4:51 AM

One thing keeping our organization back yet is the inability to allow Mozilla/Firefox from *automatically* authenticating against Integrated Windows Authentication sites with the current user's credentials. This must be transparent. Within our organization is a mish-mash of dozens of web servers which employees crawl over every day. This is the result of the organic growth the company has had, where small companies are acquired or merge, and bring with them their own resources, servers, etc.

If they store their password in their profile (not especially secure in Firefox by default since access to the master password requires a bit of know-how), at least they won't have to always key in their password each time they bounce to a new server, but they'll for sure be presented with a pop-up asking them to press Ok each time they cross servers. On the higher volume sites, where images are hosted on a different (but secured by IWA) server, they may have to authenticate several times for the viewing of a single page. In our user tests, this is difficult behavior for non-technical users to understand, the predominant complaint being, "Why does it keep asking me for the same information." Some users are confused enough that they think the site is telling them the login informatin they just provided is inaccurate, and would file a ticket with desktop support, believing something's gone wrong with their password (based on responses to questions posed on what they believe they should do when presented this dialog window).

IWA is necessary since it is how we authenticate and identify users for application permissions control, and it is by far the most seamless (at least in IE) authentication technique out there that we've discovered (if there are others, they'd require too large a simultaneous shift in our infrastructure as to make them infeasible), and it is obviously more secure than basic authentication, or web form based authentication.

What would allow this to meet our needs would simply be to provide an option allowing authentication to happen with out user intervention on sites within a given whitelist. Prefferably this would pick up on the current user's credentials and happen with out ever having to prompt the user for their login information, even if they'd recently changed their password. This whitelist could be propagated in the preferences of all users with the rollout or subsequent software updates.

It's my opinion that this would go a long way toward making the Mozilla line more attractive to many Microsoft centric organizations, and at this point in time, with all the IE bugs that have been flying around, a lot of these organizations will be looking closely at Mozilla products, but will get hung up on this one point, which represents a major difficulty for the average corporate user.

#49 Small Irish Company

by JohnnyDarko

Monday July 19th, 2004 4:53 AM

I work for a small software development company based in Ireland (connect IT - and we switched to Firefox and Thunderbird about two months ago. We only have 3 laptops and 3 desktops running windows 2000 and XP, 1 iMac and two linux servers so it was an easy changeover with no questions asked by any of the other staff. I love both apps and although I do sometimes miss a few of the extras in Outlook I wouldn't consider moving back.

#50 Hopeful for 3000+ organization

by engmark

Monday July 19th, 2004 5:52 AM

I proposed adding FF to the list of available software where I'm working a few weeks back, but I haven't got an answer as of yet. *Crossing fingers*

#52 Complete IE, Outlook and Outlook Express Ban

by odhinnsrunes

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:07 AM

I am the IT Manager for a Canadian manufacturer. It was my decision several years (3-4 I think) to ban IE and Outlook completely from any use on any of our systems. Weh have been using Mozilla and it's derivitives ever since. This coupled with good Virus policies and software and Linux servers has saved us from all but the worst viruses, which have been isolated and easy to handle. We have also experianced less BSOD's, although this may be unrelated. It has prompted the decision to use more Open Source products such as, etc. on our workstations as well. We are slowly but surely moving to a completly Open Source shop, and Mozilla has led the way.

#112 Re: Complete IE, Outlook and Outlook Express Ban

by LorThorn

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 2:03 PM

YES! ME TOO. Outlook let another virus in and we are fed up with updating IE. So we went to Thunderbird and FireFox and then to OpenOffice. Our Accounting software did not work with Thunderbird so we dumped it and went with Compiere. W2000 works ok but it can go soon, all we need is to replace some software first Quark, PhotoShop, Dreamweaver, CanadaPost. MS has “P-- t” us off for the last time. We love FireFox!!! We have to keep IE around to test our web site bummer.

#53 We have made the Switch

by EXCPhillip

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:16 AM

I work at a company that uses Windows on the desktop (mostly) and Linux on the Server. We have started the process of moving all out computers as well as many of our customers to the FireFox browser.

The transition has beenb meet with very little if any resistance as almost everyone has said the same thing. To quote on customer, "I really could care less what it is called, just as long as it works and I don't have to worrie about porno poping up every two secons because of some stupid virus!"

The bottom line is Firefox has prevented many support calls, increased customer satisfaction and provided a way to leave IE in the dust.

#55 Enterprise features

by Mozrichie

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:32 AM

as flacco says Mozilla definitelyneeds more enterprise features...

Creating a user's profile by default is difficult, the only way I could find to do that was to create a profile on a test account and copy it to another and use sed to convert the ~/.mozilla/appreg file to use the new directory location.

Setting defaults for new users seems to be error prone and/or broken if I want to set the default IMAP/SMTP server so the user does not need to enter this how do I do it? setting pref("network.hosts.smtp_server", ""); in the /usr/lib/mozilla-version/defaults/pref/unix.js does not seem to work. Also setting things in a version specific directory in a file that will change from version to version is less that ideal, why not have a /usr/lib/mozilla/prefs/local.js file with all the local settings in it? A good mail client should enable you to set it up so that when a user first uses it, it set up with all their account details.

How do you lock down mozilla so menus/buttons are disabled and cannot be re-enabled (surely libraries need this on unathenticated catalog browsers)

The "lock" file seems to confuse a lot of users and they end with multiple profiles because they do not know how to remove this.

Also I've heard Windows people complain about the lack of a MSI installer file so the can deploy Mozilla with Active Directory/RIS.

I think in general Mozilla is missing several features which would make large scale roll outs more managable. Don't get me wrong all the Linux machines we manage (160ish) use it, but it is not a good as it could be.

#103 Re: Enterprise features

by flacco

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 6:46 PM

>> Setting defaults for new users seems to be error prone and/or broken if I want to set the default IMAP/SMTP server so the user does not need to enter this how do I do it? setting pref("network.hosts.smtp_server", ""); in the /usr/lib/mozilla-version/defaults/pref/unix.js does not seem to work. Also setting things in a version specific directory in a file that will change from version to version is less that ideal, why not have a /usr/lib/mozilla/prefs/local.js file with all the local settings in it? A good mail client should enable you to set it up so that when a user first uses it, it set up with all their account details. <<

this is *exactly* what i'm talking about.

#56 My Library's Mozilla Success Story

by AlexV

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:32 AM

I work at a small public library in Manhattan, Illinois. Until a few months ago we were using a proprietary, IE-based, kiosk browser for our OPAC (Online Public Access Catalog) stations running on Windows 98. Due to some stability problems we were having with Windows, I recently installed Linux with Firefox as our browser. Before we started using Linux/Firefox my library's director was considering upgrading the computers to Win2k or XP, so we were able to save hundreds of dollars.

In addition to that, one of our staff computers (Win2k) was so completely destroyed by malware that had slipped in through IE that I had to format the hard drive and reinstall Windows. Since then we've been using Mozilla and haven't had any problems.

Just a few weeks ago we purchased 2 new computers for public internet use and a new laptop for our director. All three of them now have Firefox 0.9.2 installed and we're looking forward to the 1.0 release.

I'd like to say thanks to all of the Mozilla Foundation's developers, testers, and everyone else that has put so much time and effort into producing such a great product!

Alex Vancina, Clerk Manhattan Public Library District

#57 We have a WAHN (Wide Area Home Network) here :)

by calt129

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:39 AM

I'm working in a small company, which is specialized in SAP development, where I develop the middleware solutions. Since I had an exclusive Internet technologies based background, I'm actively and/or passively involved in many Inter/Intra/Extranet related techs and projects. I started using Internet in '94, and still remember Mosaic, Lynx, Gopher, Netscape 1, etc. I'm using Mozilla since v0.4 or such, and it's my default since then. Not because it was the continuation of one of the pioneers, rather due to the way, namely OpenSource. Although Netscape4 was a strategic disaster, it's been nice, to see Mozilla rise strong from the ashes.

Anyway, in all these years since Mozilla (in its OS incarnation) was born, I've enlightened :) numerous people with the usability, extensibility and features of Mozilla family. Since I program many web-apps and write even my shopping list in html, and use it on many platforms, I need something I can rely on and don't spend much time on bugfixes for different versions, different platforms, etc. as it is the case with the competitors, whoever they might be. And for someone like me, it was no sweat to persuade his colleagues to use Moz/FF.

Another thing is that I could also persuade ppl in our WAHN (~20 computers) to use Mozilla/Firefox, not only because it's OpenSource, but because of its 5S: security, stability, speed, standards-conformance and slickness :) (5th one is subjective alright). Some of our users are average guys, and some techies. Average guys are comfortable with the speed and no-popups, techies with the extensions, tabs and in-the-background features.

IMHO, Mozilla's biggest success is not only its "OpenSourcedness", but its standards-conformance. Long we have yearned for "write once, surf everywhere", and Mozilla is the most successful one in that direction.

From a features point of view, Mozilla-browser/Firefox replaced long its counterparts. Thunderbird fits where Outlook Express is, as well. If only now "something" replaces Outlook, be it TB+Sunbird, or something else, we would not only take back the web, but also the intranet!

Keep up the good work guys :)

#74 Re: We have a WAHN (Wide Area Home Network) here :

by calt129

Monday July 19th, 2004 10:09 AM

The company's name is Bass Consulting GmbH, btw :)

#59 I Switched

by afirawker

Monday July 19th, 2004 7:02 AM

Im not really technical on differences between IE and mozilla but I am able to see quite a difference. After putting up with all the popups and annoying load times with IE ive switched to mozilla/firefox and havnt gone back. Ive even gone as far as to install it on a few friends computers so that they can give it a shot and they all seem to be impressed with the speed and total lack of popups.

Good work guys:D

#60 50 Desktop Company switched - enforced with filter

by pschlumpf

Monday July 19th, 2004 7:15 AM

We are a medium sized company (50 Desktops 2/3 using Win32) in switzerland developing business applications. We were annoyed by the large number of open holes in IE and decided to force all users to switch to something other than IE (and juggested Firefox) by applying a content filter rule that denied all users with MSIE in their User-Agent access to off site content. Nobody did complain and most feedback was that they enjoyed the new browser.

#61 Firefox Rocks

by gamezfreak

Monday July 19th, 2004 7:21 AM

I have been using Firefox/Firebird since 0.6 and I love it. I had always been an IE users becuase

I thought Netscape/Mozilla/Opera were really slow, bloated, and had a terrible interface. Firefox

changed all that and I use it on all of my pc's as well as recommend it to everyone. In my opinion

Firefox is just as fast, if not faster, than IE and tabbed browsing rocks. In addition Ctrl-N for

a new window will put the focus in the address bar, it never bothered me that IE didn't do this but

now I can't help but think how stupid the IE developers are.

I do have a couple issues with Firefox, which will hopefully be resolved in 1.0 or 1.1. I have

noticed that some java applets don't work, like my school's, UIC, bookstore. The other thing that

is an issue is playing streaming audio like Launchcast or ESPN Radio.

Luckily for me, *sarcasm*, there is no possible way to remove IE and I can still view the things

that give me trouble in Firefox.

Thanks to the Firefox Development Team, keep up the good work.

#62 we stayed

by vade

Monday July 19th, 2004 7:37 AM

well i sorta switched... from mosaic over lynx and netscape,... to mozilla well firefox that is. never really liked the all-in-one apps, cause when they crash, well your mails gone or the webpage or... %-)

in our small company we got basically 2 camps, management, marketing, sales using IE, outlook and the development team using mozilla (mozilla, firefox, thunderbird). so we didn't really switch, but stayed with apps that do the stuff right, or at least working hard on it. ;-). though it would be 'company policy' to use outlook... lol

#63 Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail for non-exchange Corp

by htmlspinnr

Monday July 19th, 2004 8:04 AM

I'm the system administrator of the mail system at a medical bill review software company which did not standardize on Exchange from the get-go. Because of this, I've had the flexability to switch the clients around to any POP or IMAP capable client without considering Outlook.

When I started, our company was using a Linux based POP3 server and Eudora for a client. About a year and a half ago, our needs shifted to needing an IMAP based system for accountability and backup purposes. We chose Mozilla Mail, then Thunderbird because of it's stellar IMAP capability while remaining OpenSource. We first deployed Mozilla for Mail while it was at version 1.3. Then once Thunderbird reached 0.4 status, it was "good enough" as a mail client, and I slowly started migrating users from Mozilla to Thunderbird. We now have a 60/40 Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail mix in an office of 50 and most users are content. There are a few of us who run Linux, Mac OS X or Solaris as a desktop, and having the same client available there makes life much easier for trainability since the mail client works virtually the same on either platform.

Thunderbird has a simple, yet functional interface, and for newer versions, has been quite stable. There are a few who pine for Outlook like features in the mail client. I simply remind them that our company doesn't use Outlook/Exchange due to valid security concerns and that for an "email client", Thunderbird was and still is our best choice. This, combined with reasonable open-source (i.e. ClamAV, Anomy Sanitizer, SpamAssassin) mail-server tools have kept us nearly immune from the many threats that have inflicted other companies with more "conventional" (read: Outlook/Exchange) mail systems.

As for browsing, a few users have voluntarily adopted Mozilla or Firefox as their primary browser, however most still use IE. Unfortunately, some applications that we use are written IE only at the time. Because of that, we do strive to make sure all desktops have current Anti-virus software, anti-popup software, anti-spyware software, and that current updates have been applied and not ignored. This, combined with some basic education which is frequently ignored, ensures that users of either browsers that make some mistakes don't cause too much damage.

#77 Re: Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail for non-exchange Corp

by htmlspinnr

Monday July 19th, 2004 12:45 PM

Sorry, company name is Medata, Inc.

#64 We've mainly switched

by matt_morgan

Monday July 19th, 2004 8:38 AM

Brooklyn Museum is 100% on Thunderbird for email (we use an IMAP server), and about half-and-half on Firefox for browsing. Most of our workstations are Windows and although we have pretty effective desktop and network security IE still causes us some trouble (home page hijacking, malformed URLs leading to bad sites, ads, pop-ups, etc.), so switching to Firefox is still an important goal. Probably within 6-8 months we'll be 90% switched for browsing. When we switch the browser we now change the default browser, but do not attempt to disable IE, which is tricky.

As far as mail, we used to use Eudora and it was quickly becoming clear that that product was being abandoned, or at least not maintained in an acceptable way. They refused to fix serious IMAP compatibility problems, so we were forced to switch to Thunderbird at only the 0.3 release. It was already better than Eudora, for us, and of course freer and cheaper. For the most part we have not upgraded since then, but we will, probably at the next milestone.

Brooklyn Museum is a community-minded institution. We care what our visitors think and want to invite commentary about, and respond to their interests and emotions. The open-source model is a very good fit for that vision; it gives me, as IT Manager, a way to incorporate our IT operations into the mission of the institution. So although we are cash-poor, we fund open-source projects where we can (primarily OpenACS development that has not yet gotten back to the public, and now we're working on a Mozilla Kiosk implementation that will be open-sourced) in order to be more community-minded. But it's critical to state that we aren't doing this primarily, or even mainly, for philosophical reasons: Thunderbird is the better email client, and Firefox is, by far, the better browser. It's time for just about everyone to switch.

#67 "I think he has us ahead of the curve..."

by DOF

Monday July 19th, 2004 9:06 AM

I work for a university department, and have been boosting 'Zilla for a long time. No one listened. Recently I sent out an email to everyone saying that we were at risk because of IE, and the director took notice. He replied to everyone, saying "I think he has us ahead of the curve on this one" and recommended everyone switch. Now I get lots of requests for CD's.

Ahh, the importance of getting the boss on your side :) - Decrepit Old Fool

#68 Switched

by ohnnyj

Monday July 19th, 2004 9:23 AM

Hello all:

I work as the IT Manager for a mechanical contractor in the San Diego area called Sherwood Mechanical, Inc. and have been very pleased with our switch to Firefox for our browsing abilities. I had always used Firefox individually both at work and at home but never made the switch for the organization. The recent security issues w/Internet Explorer promtped me to take quick action to get rid of the buggy browser and install Firefox which has proved to be much more security friendly. Everyone seems to be fine with it and no one has had any problems which leads me to ask myself why I did not switch sooner.

However, one thing I would like to note, and sorry if it has already been mentioned, but I would really like to see an easy way to install on multiple machines. Something like a quiet install that could be deployed to all workstations at once. This would make switching much easier for companies, especially large companies so one does not have to go to each machine to install the program. Then it would also be nice to have a way to automatically make it the default upon install as well as remove access to IE altogether which is available in the Set Program Access and Defaults section of one's Control Panel. But once again it is a pain to have to do this for every machine (even if I only have roughly 30 or so to do). I could definetely see why people would not switch if it takes a long time to do so.

Anyways, that's just my two cents.

- John -

#75 Mozilla in EDU

by kevinfreitas

Monday July 19th, 2004 10:29 AM

I'm the webmaster at Pacific Lutheran University in Tacoma, WA and successfully encouraged our IT to move our campus once Moz 1.0 hit the scene. We were, up to that point, a NS4 campus so we thankfully avoided all things IE/Outlook but still needed a more powerful and modern solution to go with our new standards-leaning web redesign. Since the fall of 2002 we've been running various versions of the Moz suite on campus with great success. We've even created a Moz-based tool for creating and editing websites for our faculty, staff, departments, and students called Uedit ( that's taken off!

Thanks to all on the Moz team for continuing to crank out wonderful and innovative products!

~ Kevin

#78 Montessori School

by zachariah

Monday July 19th, 2004 12:54 PM

I am the "IT guy" for Mission Viejo Montessori School ( ) and switched the administrative and computer lab computers (all the computers) to Mozilla as soon as Mozilla hit v1.2

What would help me the most is if there were more recent ports of Mozilla or of Firefox for OS9, although the [url=]WaMCom[/url] version does work ok

#79 Michigan State University Libraries

by clf

Monday July 19th, 2004 1:22 PM

all MSU main library employee workstations have been switched from IE to firefox, due to security concerns. my wife works in the tech processing section, she had been using mozilla since she was hired in and was happy to see the rest of the employees switch. all were told by IT that under no circumstances were they to use IE.

#81 Vereniging milieudefensie,

by oracle

Monday July 19th, 2004 4:16 PM

a Dutch NGO with some 100 users at its head office in Amsterdam, switched browser in early 2002 from MSIE to Mozilla 0.98 if I remember correctly. Some time in August that year the next step was taken, switching mail clients from Pegasus to Mozilla.

At that time the workstations run NT4 and the servers Novell. Mozilla was deployed with Zen and the biggest problem during the browser switch was that Mozilla came without any default applications set, frustrating the users who got download dialogues for everything they clicked on that wasn't html. Yes, we could and should have fixed that before deploying; we were a tad too eager there. User adaptation was nevertheless practically instant and friction-free.

The mail client transition was a pain on the IT side. We had to upgrade Pegasus from 3.x to 4.x so that it could do IMAP, then do some really very dirty scripting to convert the Pegasus mailboxes to mdir format, migrate from Mercuy to Courier on the server side, then switch mail clients over a weekend. Mozilla's "security" directory caused lots of problems. Users with roaming profiles would log on multiple computers and start a new instance of Mozilla, thus creating a new profile, which they would then use as their default. That had been going on all along after the browser migration, so when we then pushed individual user settings for mail, they often ended up in the wrong profile. It did take some time to sort out all that. Again, however, from the users' perspective the migration was relatively easy and adaptation was rather fast.

Most interesting was to see that users who got hired after the migration never questioned the software. For them we were using "a slightly different Internet Explorer" and that was that. I have seen similar non-reactions later at an internet café, where MSIE one day was replaced by Mozilla behind MSIE's icon on the desktop. Nobody asked questions; people just clicked on that familiar MSIE icon and went browsing, never even realising that they were looking at much more than just a new version of MSIE.

#127 Re: Vereniging milieudefensie,

by dgtlmoon

Wednesday July 28th, 2004 6:37 PM

Dear sysadmin

Good luck printing pages like or

You can learn more abuot this exciting mozilla bug at

Happy printing, yes mozilla is a suitable desktop replacement and doesnt contain any serious bugs! (sarcasm!)

#82 Penn

by baron

Monday July 19th, 2004 4:36 PM This is the first year we've supported Mozilla specifically. (It should change to 1.7.) We have supported Netscape in the past. We need IE too because of one program used by business offices, supposedly. Local support providers are free to depart from the policy, and many are Firefox fans.

#85 Bad printing issues

by dgtlmoon

Monday July 19th, 2004 6:02 PM

No one else has mentioned anything about some of mozilla engine's severe printing issues!

#88 Re: Bad printing issues

by trashcan

Monday July 19th, 2004 11:33 PM

I think your other five posts in this thread covered the topic pretty well.

#100 Re: Re: Bad printing issues

by dgtlmoon

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 5:01 PM

So how do you suggest we fix it? Where do we source the people with the talents to fix these bugs? Or are you just another opensource PFY who thinks they know it all but never contributes?

#95 Re: Bad printing issues

by rmorris

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 12:55 PM

And what exactly are these? On windows, Mozilla seems to handle converting webpages to print MUCH better than IE (I love the scaling support), and on Linux, it can print to a postscript file or to the default printer. I suppose it would be nice if Linux/Unix printing could be more integrated with CUPS or some such, but the actual print formatting works great for me.

#99 Re: Re: Bad printing issues

by dgtlmoon

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 4:59 PM


Im referring to . Mozilla engine based browsers just will not print some <DIV> tags across multiple pages If you print preview this page you will only get one page of information even tho there are 4-5 pages of text to print.

*THIS* is a problem, this is data-loss, this bug has been an issue for _two years_

I setup mozilla in an office of staff that basically print websites and do whatever with them (i cant say what), and a lot of sites just will not print correctly.

#105 Re: Re: Re: Bad printing issues

by SomeGuy

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 3:37 AM

What you have got to do is "advertise" the bug. Find out where the developers hang out and then and then dare them to fix the bug :)

"What you can't fix this wussy little bug? Eh, a Visual Basic programmer could fix that! Are you saying you are not as good as a VB programmer?"

(I am joking, sort of, I really think the visibility of some of these bugs needs to be raised and then more developers might take notice)

#114 Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad printing issues

by dgtlmoon

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 6:36 PM

yeh tried that :)

im sorta doing that now, i know this particular bug is one of the highest voted bugs, and THE highest voted printing bug on the mozilla bug thingo.

#86 I'm not M$ free...

by htrednek

Monday July 19th, 2004 9:08 PM

...but darn close! The moment I came across Firefox (around 0.7), I was sold. I love the modular nature and size is always at a premium for me. I haven't had a fraction of the issues on my system since I switched from IE. I've been recommending it to everyone I know. I've been considering installing the full batch from Mozilla (Firefox,Thunderbird,Mozilla) as well as OpenOffice on the systems I built for clients....(That won't violate the GPL will it? The clients are all personal/home use only.) Keep up the great work Mozilla!

#90 Re: I'm not M$ free...

by stonedyak

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 7:28 AM

It wouldn't matter if the systems were for a huge multinational corporation - you're free to use GPL software anywhere you like. The only restrictions are to do with modifying the source code.

#87 Mozilla story

by ccady

Monday July 19th, 2004 9:13 PM

My eight year-old dughter has never used any other browser than Mozilla. She browses the web better than any adult I know. We were watching a Disney movie, Pixel Perfect, and when a character in cyberspace ranted "I hate popup ads!" my daughter turned to me and said ... "What's a popup ad?"

Go Mozilla!

#106 Re: Mozilla story

by johnlar

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 6:23 AM

Thats great. Though gotta suck to be asked such a question. Its like being asked, "What's a dildo?"

#89 dual switch for my company

by buff

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 6:29 AM

I switched recently to Mozilla Firefox and 3 other developers of mine also switched. We also moved to Fedora linux core 2 for web development. Being M$ free was one of the best moves we have done. If it wasn't for a couple games and testing on windows I would never have to boot in windows. Ah, these are good times!

#91 Want to switch to Firefox

by NPC_Mika

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 9:13 AM

I personally Switched to Firefox and tried to switch the company, but some of the websites we use to conduct daily business use Java and Java Script and they do not work right in Firefox. I love Firefox/Mozilla, Great Job!!

#96 Re: Want to switch to Firefox

by dorsan

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 1:30 PM

I think you will find those sites use Microsoft’s implementation of Java, MSJava. The good news is Microsoft can no longer ship its non-standard version of Java and new machines are actually coming with Sun's proper Java VM. Generally 1.4.2 but I run 1.5beta2. Banks tend to be the main source of these Java apps, and until the next version is released by them, they won't move to a compliant app. So unfortunately have to install MSJava back on as some of the people in my company need to access sites which still run their applications with MSJava. Give it time though, since proper Java is being shipped with new PC's future compliance will be forced onto the monolithic companies which are easily swayed by whatever bit of non-complaint software MS comes up with. Can't wait for XAML.

As for Javascript, that would most likley be a browser detection string, if IE {work} else { tell them to use IE and that all else is rubish, or better yet say use Netscape 4 or 6}.

#92 Firefox for Small Businesses

by eviltoaster

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 9:23 AM

I've had many cases of Small Businesses being fed up with popup ads and spyware. No matter how many spyware scans and popup killers they installed, they could never eradicate the problem. Before Firebird/Firefox, Open source browsers were too slow and clunky, bloated with too many unused features and complications. Firefox has been a Godsend. It starts faster than any other third party browser, and its primary purpose is to show web pages. Too many other browsers forget that. Firefox is secure, and is immune to 99% of all spyware and adware browser exploits. It just works.

I've use Firefox/Firebird since 0.7 and since the release of firefox 0.9.2, I have converted a local car service faclility, a mini mart, and a local resteraunt. They think its great!

#93 Switching to Thunderbird

by depasqua

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 11:13 AM

The College of New Jersey (Ewing, NJ) is switching their default campus-wide mail client from Outlook or Netscape to Thunderbird in the next 2 weeks.

#94 Using Mozilla for development

by rmorris

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 12:51 PM

As the lead developer for my company, I recommended and implemented the move to Mozilla as an application framework for some kiosk-based image processing applications we develop (, Also, our Director of Technology switched over to Firefox and Thunderbird for all internet access, and is considering such a move for the whole company.

#97 That's nice, but

by Gunnar

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 2:18 PM

I know of a couple of organizations that have switched to Mozilla in whole or at least give their employees the freedom to use Mozilla. In most cases (at least that I know of), they use the suite.

Still, before we collect names, how about making Mozilla more "large organization" friendly. I have received quite a few request of people who needed information on how to set up / deploy Mozilla at their school/company. Using Mozilla, that is not simple. In addition, what about things like patches? You cannot expect sysadmins that have Mozilla running on 1000 PCs (not exaggerating here) manually deploy the latest security patch on every one of these PCs. If there is a way to do a scripted batch install, *do* put information how that's done up on the shellblock info page on

So, while it's nice to know which organization uses Mozilla, why not make it easy to deploy / update first. Just my two cents.

#102 We Would but cant (not yet)

by gdeka

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 6:33 PM

We are an accounting and financial planning practice of 25 ppl, and we would love to switch then i would get firefox at work (we use terminal server so cant just install it for myself) However one of the sites - thier memebers section uses DHTML menus to navigate the site which do not render correctly. I know it is more of an issue of the designers of the page, but its the only thing holding us back.

#110 Re: We Would but cant (not yet)

by WillyWonka

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 10:07 AM

Now that is weird. When you just view the top frame by itself, it seems to work. But when it's in frames, it doesn't. (No JS errors either)

#104 New Mozdev site for Mozilla in the Enterprise

by kquiggle

Tuesday July 20th, 2004 7:32 PM

[Hope this is not off-topic.] As a number of people have noted in this forum, using Mozilla in the enterprise (company, organization, etc.) offers numerous benefits, but there are also some particular challenges (such as distribution, updates, customization, and so on). In an effort to provide information on efforts to address these concerns, I have started a new mozdev project:

Right now I am collecting links on all information related to this topic. By collecting all of this information in one place I hope work in this area will be facilitated, as well as saving people time in trying to track it all down themselves.

Any contributions to this project, suggestions for specific topics or information items, are welcome (I have already picked up a few new items from posts here, which I'll be adding to the site shortly).

#108 Switching to Firefox

by tiefel

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 7:41 AM

I am the Technology Coordinator for a high school. Before the next school year begins, the default browser will be Firefox for all the computers used by teachers and students.

#109 Art Gallery migration

by pvoce

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 9:36 AM

I'm the Technical Director for an art gallery specializing in 19th/20th impressionist and post-impressionist art. One of the staff here is quite savvy where it comes to computers, but the owner is not savvy at all and does not really have the time to learn "new" stuff. However, the owner trusts me implicitly when it comes to protecting the network and making things work more efficiently.

Thus, I received wholehearted support when I explained and displayed articles about the security issues concering IE *AND* Outlook vs Moz 1.7.

For the setup here, Moz 1.7 worked better than the FF/TB combo, and with the latest Calendar extension and *SOME* (read not much) tweaking, migration has been easy, and we have a more stable and secure setup that is now going into the on-the-job phase. I hope that within the month (and it is likely so), that Mozilla will simply be "what we use".

#111 We have switched!

by mgaugusch

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 1:16 PM

We are an IT company in Vienna, doing software and hardware development in the areas of flight safety and chip cards. About a month ago, after publication of another IE security hole (still not properly patched!!), the decision for the switch was finalized. We are about 70 people, and not everyone is a freak like me ;-) For all who want to switch, you can read my pages about blocking IE with Squid and preparing Firefox for a network installation at

#126 Re: We have switched!

by dgtlmoon

Wednesday July 28th, 2004 6:35 PM

Mozilla contains a bug that results in loss of data when printing.

Good luck printing pages like or

You can learn more abuot this exciting mozilla bug at

Happy printing, yes mozilla is a suitable desktop replacement and doesnt contain any serious bugs! (sarcasm!)

#113 We have also switched (russian bank

by olegtt

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 4:12 PM

Hello all, In our company we are have many instalations of Mozilla products and related software (FerFox, Thunderbird, Sunbird, NvU). Thanks guys for good job ;-)

Best regards,


#115 Sentinare Messaging Solutions: Switches to Firefox

by infowit

Wednesday July 21st, 2004 7:16 PM

I know that Sentinare Messaging Solutions - has required all employees to only use Firefox as a web browser. One exception is made for web site and web application testing to ensure cross browser compatibiliy. But they have a policy that no IE traffic to external websites is allowed.

#119 Austin Community College

by doron

Thursday July 22nd, 2004 5:29 PM

Austin Community College (ACC) was hit badley by the lastest windows holes (I know someone who works there), and they are working on moving their employees to Firefox. They already user Netscape for mail, so possibly they might move to Tbird as well.

#120 Komatsu Canada Limited 1,300 employees

by wbayer

Thursday July 22nd, 2004 8:24 PM

Komatsu Canada Limited, a leading distributor of heavy equipment for the mining, forestry and construction industries, has about 1,300 employees in Canada. Our IT staff began using Mozilla several years ago.

The introduction of excellent anti-SPAM features into Thunderbird justified a quick rollout to our users. With an additional 150 users converted to Thunderbird about a month ago, Thunderbird is now our predominant mail client.

Firefox and Thunderbird have been deployed on our Windows 2003 Terminal Servers with excellent stability and performance. Most users selected Firefox as their default browser, flipping to IE only as required by those few sites using proprietary MS technologies like ActiveX.

I agree with some of the comments regarding simplifying large scale roll-outs, however the improved security offered by Firefox over IE, even with Active Directory policies in place, still justified our Mozilla deployment. I don't agree with the comment that a single monolithic application need handle browsing, mail and calendar. Indeed, we much prefer separate applications for these tasks, as this ensures that if one of the applications crashes, it doesn't take the rest of them with it.

For more information on Komatsu equipment, visit, or watch those "Mighty Machine" videos!

Looking forward to Firefox 1.0 and beyond!


William Bayer C.I.O. Komatsu Canada Limited

#121 boeing going moz?

by ratman

Friday July 23rd, 2004 2:14 AM

i've heard a rumor that boeing - or at least the orange county, ca divisons - is considering switching to either the mozilla app suite or firefox for external browsing. can anyone out there substantiate this? it would be quite a coup, to say the least.

#122 Fire Stop Sp. z o.o.

by mzimu

Friday July 23rd, 2004 7:31 AM

We are Polish fire security company (+100 employees, 40 workstations). We have used Mozilla suite since 1.2 for email (we have used Netscape 4.x before), however some of our employees were die hard IE users and used it for web browsing until recently - after the recent avalanche of security problems with Internet Explorer we have finally decided to block access for IE to any sites outside but Windows Update. So far no one complains, even those IE fans. Kudos to all Mozilla developers and MozillaPL translation team for their great work!

Best regards,

Marcin Pasternak (

#124 Western Kentucky University

by davisje1

Tuesday July 27th, 2004 6:30 AM

I am the System Administrator for Western Kentucky University. This summer we started deploying Mozilla to our campus. So far we have installed it on around 1500 faculty/staff machines. We have 2500 faculty/staff and 18,000 students. When the semester starts again some of our students will probably be given the opportunity to use it as well.

#125 Re: Western Kentucky University

by dgtlmoon

Wednesday July 28th, 2004 6:33 PM

Dear sysadmin

Good luck printing pages like or

You can learn more abuot this exciting mozilla bug at

Happy printing, yes mozilla is a suitable desktop replacement and doesnt contain any serious bugs! (sarcasm!)

#128 Exploiting mozilla printing bug to hide informatio

by dgtlmoon

Wednesday July 28th, 2004 7:38 PM

You can view this site, shows how one can hide information from the user due to a printing bug in mozilla.

#129 Little kids and Internet Explorer

by joemc91

Thursday August 5th, 2004 7:57 AM

I worked for a Boys and Girls Club over the summer last year and redid their network. This summer I went back for two weeks and switched every computer over to Firefox. The kids were going to some of their favorite sites which install tons of ad-ware and malware and was just slowing everything down. They barely noticed the switch minus the new icon. They love it now as it's a whole lot faster and doesn't get any popups. Just to be safe of course, I banned them from using IE (through GP, not verbally). Eventually I'd like to switch them to Linux, but since they get all their MS software free, that probably won't happen.

#130 SSL Proxy setting

by shantanuo

Thursday August 12th, 2004 9:28 AM

In IE SSL Proxy will be the same as HTTP Proxy (by default). Not in forefox. You have to type the same IP address twice! Tools - Options - General - Connection Settings... - Manual proxy configuration - Type HTTP Proxy. (Since there is no same as HTTP Proxy option, I have to type the same IP address again) It's a minor issue but wasted several hours in the last month.

#131 Mattawan Consolidated School

by 9100107

Wednesday August 2nd, 2006 5:46 PM

Mattawan Consolidated School has switched to Mozilla Firefox.