MozillaZine

Full Article Attached Brendan Eich Discusses Future Roadmap Plans

Tuesday April 27th, 2004

In a newsgroup posting, Brendan Eich has given some details about how he sees Mozilla development progressing over the next year or so. Brendan envisages the Mozilla Application Suite being retired to a branch within the next twelve months, with the standalone applications (Mozilla Firefox and Mozilla Thunderbird) continuing development on the trunk. After SeaMonkey has been retired, more far-reaching changes will be made to the Mozilla APIs, breaking compatibility with 1.x in places and eventually leading to Mozilla 2.0. The message, posted as part of a discussion about the mozilla.org staff meeting minutes of Monday 5th April, reflects Brendan's own opinions and not everything has been agreed with drivers.


#1 App interoperability would be useful

by rkfoster

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 8:27 AM

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I'm not involved in the development efforts, and I don't know the details of why some developers prefer the suite over the standalone apps or vice versa, but I wanted to mention one aspect of this from a user viewpoint.

I use both Firefox and Thunderbird at work and Thunderbird at home on Mac OSX. Shortly after starting with Firebird(Firefox) I went to email a webpage to my home email account, something I sometimes do from work when I don't have the time. I suddenly realized that, since Firefox doesn't have an integrated email client, I couldn't do this. This is only to illustrate that a suite enables more of this type of thing to happen. I don't use the Mozilla suite for other reasons but if standalone apps are the goal then I hope development will take into account "interoperability" of the kind that is possible within the current Mozilla suite product.

#2 Re: App interoperability would be useful

by zookqvalem

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 10:33 AM

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Yea, I would agree with you on this. To add this up, I found the XUL programming in Firefox to contain fewer supported XUL tags and fewer supported XPCOM feature than Mozilla does. Does that make you kind of wonder if SeaMonkey/Mozilla ever goes good-bye or something.

#3 Re: Re: App interoperability would be useful

by zookqvalem

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 10:40 AM

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Eh? The summary on Mozillazine make you believe that SeaMonkey is going to retire while the detail comment in email by Enrich stated that it is not the case... So, does anyone care to make some clarification???

#4 Re: App interoperability would be useful

by beastie

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 3:11 PM

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> I suddenly realized that, since Firefox doesn't have an integrated email client, I couldn't do this.

File > Send Page works fine for me. It uses my default email client.

#7 Re: App interoperability would be useful

by rkfoster

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 4:56 PM

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This must have been added in a later version of Firefox then the one I was/am using. Having to uninstall all extensions and themes (latest version refuses to launch likely due to an extension/theme incompatibility) in order for the new version to work has delayed my adoption of it.

#9 Re: Re: App interoperability would be useful

by brolewis

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 8:59 PM

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It will be, once 1.0 is reached. It has just taken some time to iron all the kinks out of the different new schemas. I understand the frustration but for some time now I have been able to upgrade without reinstalling my extensions. It may be worth it to bite the bullet (or maybe at 0.9) and get it over with to take advantage of all the new features.

#5 App Suite

by kguru

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 3:25 PM

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I use the Application Suite quite heavily. I think that the App Suite should be maintained for at least next couple of years until Firefox and Thunderbird are fully developed and that they can integrate if desired (or be used stand alone). Also I think its important that a stand alone Composer is created for the Mac platform (the NVU program is Windows and Linux only).

#6 Re: App Suite

by buff

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 4:06 PM

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A couple of years is too long to hold onto the aging Suite design. By the time comes to move away from it Thunderbird and Firefox will communicate well enough that there will be little functional difference from the Suite. Overall things will move much faster and customizing Firefox and thunderbird with extensions will add even more functionality than the suite. Have faith; it will be cool.

#12 Re: Re: App Suite

by RKA

Thursday April 29th, 2004 2:12 PM

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"aging Suite design"? You say that as if it was something negative. But it's not. The suite was always a good idea. The day the Mozilla suite doesn't ...suit me anymore, I won't be starting to use Firesomething. I will use Opera, which is about to integrate both chat and mail into the browser - the suite concept. I'll keep Mozilla around for the editor, that's all. Running Firefox and Thunderbird takes a lot more RAM than only running the suite. And the Firefox browser lacks a ton of useful features the suite has. I'm still convinced that fractioning the suite into a separate browser and mail app will be the death of Mozilla. Worst idea till now. I suspect whoever came up with it is aiming to get on the MS payroll.

#17 Re: Re: Re: App Suite

by pirat

Friday April 30th, 2004 1:34 AM

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Well, I'm using Suite for browsing and developing and Thunderbird for mail. There are newsgroups, which take Thunderbird (or Mozilla Mail if that matters) to something like ~100MB of RAM and I'm happy I can kill just mail and not all my open windows (I have mail open all the day due to the work). The same with browser. I would use Firefox, it looks nice and simple, but Firefox is not suited for me. You need extensions to make it comparable with Suite in "power", not mentioning strange behaviour of FORMs with non-ASCII characters. Let's see future after 1.0, with unistall of extensions, maybe I give it a new try. PS: I hate google-bar, it's simply TOO MUCH NARROW! ^_-

#18 Re: Re: Re: App Suite

by jedbro

Friday April 30th, 2004 11:24 AM

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>>Worst idea till now. I suspect whoever came up with it is aiming to get on the MS payroll. You sound like a troll. But I know your not.

I feel your pain. What I don't think you realize is that there is a place for Firefox on the market. I'm getting sick of Suite users groaning and moaning about Firefox while they still have the suite around, yes, when the suite retires there WILL be a problem, and this needs to be addressed by Mozilla.org so as not to loose it's current userbase.

In the mean time ENJOY the suite and stop bitching about a product that your not even using.

#19 Re: Re: Re: App Suite

by brother

Saturday May 1st, 2004 7:13 AM

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> Running Firefox and Thunderbird takes a lot more RAM than only running the suite.

Currently I use the Suite and Firefox, I have at least the mailpart in the suite open when I'm at the computer. The taskmanager says that mozilla.exe uses like 20-30 mb ram, that's really ok by me. When I start to browse the web, using 5-6 tabs or so the mozilla.exe will eventually use 40-50 mb ram. I know of this and reduces use of other programs (I'm only on 128 mb). The problem is that Firefox alone uses 25 mb ram in idle and I haven't used TB since summer 2003 when I lived by my GFs parents. If TB will use another 25 mb ram it's not an option to switch away from the suite. I relaly love FF, and some extensions is FF-only so I'll continue to use it. The integration between, brwser, mail and calendar in the Suite is perfect, it's THE application, I want it that way. Force me to use TB and FF and I will do it but for now I'm more than happy with a suite doing all the stuff.

#21 Re: Re: App Suite

by RKA

Saturday May 1st, 2004 4:43 PM

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The only enjoyable thing about Firefox is the graphics. Nice work. Import them into the suite, then trash the rest. There is no need for all that modularity - it's giving end users a giant headache, updating 25 extentions each time they upgrade the browser...sheesh. If that isn't a maintainance nightmare, nothing is. Keep it together, don't fraction Mozilla.

#20 Re: Re: App Suite

by bugs4hj <bugs4hj@netscape.net>

Saturday May 1st, 2004 7:51 AM

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"Firefox and thunderbird with extensions will add even more functionality than the suite."

Yeah right, mozilla Firefox is kind of a Lego browser, you need a hell lot of extensions to get what you used to use!

"Have faith; it will be cool."

I already have the Mozilla suite. That's perfectly cool for me. So I don't have to wait. Also, most extensions work for both or can easily be changed/updated to work for the suite.

Also, why are patches going one route only? The mozilla suite should also benefit from cleanups and bug fixes but that's not the case!

#8 Re: App Suite

by jedbro

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 5:30 PM

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True. But the problem with keeping the suite around and on the trunk is that many mods to the suite would break Firefox/Thunderbird/Camino, etc. and visa versa. Things like the GRE are geared towards the standalone apps and would probably be a big headache to get working/not break anything in the suite.

No was said it would *Die*, just be on a different branch.

#11 Re: Re: App Suite

by darin <darin@meer.net>

Thursday April 29th, 2004 11:30 AM

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> Things like the GRE are geared towards the standalone apps and would probably be a big headache to get working/not break anything in the suite.

Yeah, you'd think.... but, actually it is only the suite that currently uses the GRE. None of the standalone apps use it (!)

#10 Re: App Suite

by bzbarsky

Wednesday April 28th, 2004 10:00 PM

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> should be maintained for at least next couple of years

It'll be maintained (aka security fixes). It just won't be actively developed.

If you want more than that, you need to organize the resources (people, hardware, etc) to make it happen. The Mozilla Foundation has decided that it no longer has such resources available, basically.

#13 Re: Re: App Suite

by RKA

Thursday April 29th, 2004 4:50 PM

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Not that i do much of value - I'm just a Bugzilla helper, but I assure you I'll be GONE the moment Seamonkey is retired. I'm probably not the only "people" who already is here, and who will vanish with the Suite.

#14 Re: Re: App Suite

by RKA

Thursday April 29th, 2004 4:53 PM

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Not that i do much of value - I'm just a Bugzilla helper, but I assure you I'll be GONE the moment Seamonkey is retired. I'm probably not the only "people" who already is here, and who will vanish with the Suite.

#15 Re: Re: App Suite

by RKA

Thursday April 29th, 2004 4:54 PM

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Not that i do much of value - I'm just a Bugzilla helper, but I assure you I'll be GONE the moment Seamonkey is retired. I'm probably not the only "people" who already is here, and who will vanish with the Suite.

#16 Re: Re: App Suite

by RKA

Thursday April 29th, 2004 4:57 PM

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Mozillazine keept feeding me error messages, i kept posting, trying to log in.... Login routines here are not very well implemented.