MozNGW: Mozilla-Based Client for Novell GroupWiseMonday April 5th, 2004Sohail Mirza writes: "Sitepoint.com has an article pointing people to MozNGW, a Mozilla-based GroupWise client by RedbackSystems." GroupWise is Novell's corporate communication and collaboration tool. The native Windows client is, in the words of RedbackSystems, "the fat kid that fell out of the ugly tree, and hit every branch on the way down." MozNGW, which was originally going to be based on Opera, is intended to rectify this. As well as MozNGW, RedbackSystems also has several other products, most of which will eventually be rolled into their XULU cross-platform application framework. This looks like an interesting project, and it's definitely a great example of the ease with which Mozilla allows developers to build cross-platform UI's, but from the screenshots it looks like they're using Microsoft's icons. Sounds like a lawsuit if I ever heard one. I wonder if Novell has any legal liability for this? On another note, does anyone know the status of the GRE? I think it would be fantastic if projects like MozNGW could build their interface as an extension to the bare-bones Gecko runtime rather than having to rely on Firefox or the suite. Microsoft has better things to do then go after someone using a one of their icons in an app. Do you have any idea how many apps out their use icons that look similar to "native" MS icons in their apps? It must be in the thousands at a minimum. Heck the theme for Firefox, its basically an exact copy of the Internet Explorer theme with some of the colors changed. Also look at the picture of Groupwise at the bottom of this page http://www.novell.cz/produkty/clanky/groupwise/gw65zaklady.html The icons that this apps uses look exactly like the ones that Novell used in its native Groupwise app. So No, Novell doesn't have any legal liability for this. Microsoft will be going after a project like this http://www.xpde.com/ LONG before they start tackling apps which use an icon or two from XP. I think microsoft would be on shaky ground trying to sue someone for using the icons that windows uses, because there becomes the question of what is part of Windows (which app developers can use) and what isn't (which they presumably can't). For example, lets start with a basic application which is just a grey screen. It will already use the windows title bar and minimize, close button etc with no legal threats. Now what about if they decide they want to change the font on the title bar, and make their own copying the windows look. Are they breaking the copyright, or just making the application work better with the OS? Now they decide to embed IE, using the standard IE toolbars and IE graphics - no copyright infringment. What about if they then decided to re-implement the toolbar but use the same icons? What if they then change the rendering engine too? IMO, using standard icons that ship with windows, such as the IE icons, should be considered fitting in with the operating system. Using the icons on another OS would be copyright infringments (as apple have tried to enforce with their Aqua theme). That is one sweet looking "mail client". Would it be possible to make it work on something other than "GroupWise" ? Just thought I'd post a response to some of the above comments: 1. Firefox was chosen because it provides the perfect light x-platform base. The only Firefox specific interfaces in use so far are some XPCOM calls and the new chrome format. 2. The icons in use in the screenshots are from the MozNGW GroupWise 6.5 theme. They are lifted entirely from Novell's existing 6.5 Windows client. There are only 3 "XP-ish" icons in use in MozNGW - on the sidebar tabs. These are for the theme development only, as GroupWise has nothing similar, we have yet to have a chance to produce them. Novell may well object to the use of their icons in this client (though I hope not), if they do then we will just drop the "6.5 theme". The prime objective of this theme was to provide a common "look" across MozNGW and the existing native Windows client. 3. The entire purpose of XULU is to provide a datasource agnostic cross-platform app framework that maybe reused. there are a number of OS projects discussing using the MozNGW/XULU interfaces, I will leave it to those projects to announce if and when. Hello, allow me to highlight the blog story titled "XULUX and XULU??" online @ http://weblog.isallineed.net/javagui/archives/000091.html For those who aren't subscribed to the XUL News Wire or haven't check out the Open XUL Alliance site here's a little suprise for you. There's a project called Xulux already. See http://www.xulux.org So please consider switching to a more creative name. XULU clearly beats MozNGW but it won't win any awards anytime soon. Hello, just in case if you wonder if the Xulux project is alive, please check out Nyx (Not Yet Xulux) @ http://nyx.xulux.org I had intended to ignore the above blog entry, but as you have posted here I will respond. 1. Had the original poster bothered to read the project page rather than just rant, he/she would have noted the project's name is XULU not XULUX. 2. Your own link points to the pronunciation, XULUX is "Zool Looks", ours is pronounced "Zulu" - after the African warrior tribe. 3. I personally "googled" extensively on "XULU", and there is no software project - open source or otherwise with that name. Why would I google for a name called "XULUX" when I had no intention of calling the project that? 4. The 'TM' does indeed mean we claim ownership on a project implementing a cross platform XML interface based on Mozilla's XUL technology called "XULU" and pronounced as above. If the Mozilla XUL spec become formalised by the W3C then you may assume the claim continues. 5. In the same way Linus Torvalds claims TM on Linux on behalf of the Linux community, Redback make a similar assertion on behalf of the XULU Project. 6. The 'TM' on the project logo means it is a unique piece of intellectual effort, and therefore has the right to be protected. BTW ™ and ® are different entities. 7. I have no idea what you mean when you say "XULU clearly beats MozNGW but it won't win any awards anytime soon". MozNGW is a snap-in to XULU. 8. I wish your project the best of luck, may the best technology win. Finally, and perhaps most importantly. This a project for and on behalf of the Mozilla Community, neither we nor this project, are or indeed will be associated with the so called "Open XUL Alliance". As such, the only people who may request a name change is this community itself, and therefore I am not inclined to acquiesce to your request. Neil 1) I read your page. Too bad your logo says XULUX TM, that's why I blogged about it. 2) Sounds the same for me :) Except for the endig x of course (I am dutch, maybe that is the problem) 3) it's easy to miss names that are similar to what you came up with and is even in the same category, though I think if you put something like a TM behind it, you should look better. 6) I am not a lawyer and I don't wanna be if you don't mind. 8) Thanx, but I am not in a pissing contest here. I just want to make software and I don't care who is the best to others, the most important think is that I build the best tool for me. So if you see software as a contest, happy competing. Think I will start using your logo though, like it a lot :) Mvgr, Martin > Too bad your logo says XULUX TM I see "XULU" with an 'X' image behind it. When I looked at it earlier today, before I even saw this post, I still saw "XULU" with an 'X' behind it. Two different things. > Think I will start using your logo though, like it a lot :) I don't know about pronunciations in different languages, but I think if you start using that logo you will definitely be violating a trademark. Note: I'm not affiliated with either project, just bored working at home today. |