International XUL Meetup Days Announced
Saturday April 3rd, 2004
Gerald Bauer writes: "Meetup.com — a site that helps in organizing local interest groups — has opened up a XUL chapter. Now you can join and link up with fellow XUL coders and designers at local cafes (and other places) in 612 cities across 51 countries. Every 1st Tuesday of every month is now officially International XUL Meetup Day! Meetup with other local XML User Interface Language (XUL) coders and designers to discuss the future of the rich internet for everyone.
"PS: I (Gerald Bauer) will try to organize a first XUL coder and designer meeting in Vienna, Austria in May. See you there."
People should note that what Gerald Bauer means by "XUL" is not what the Mozilla community means by it. Despite requests to stop, he continues to engage in activity designed to confuse people about what it means, in contravention of the Mozilla Foundation's de facto trademark on XUL, and to present his "Open XUL Alliance" as some sort of umbrella body.
If you want to find the real XUL community, head over to XULPlanet.
True, but the Meetup.com site is an interesting idea. Maybe we could open a Mozilla chapter, for anything Mozilla-related.
Then why did you allow this news article to go up gerv?
Unless something changed and I missed it, Gerv has nothing to do with Mozillazine. It's probably Alex who posted the article.
So what does Gerald Bauer mean by "XUL"?
Cool, Mozilla saved the subject from my previous post on mozillazine.org and I didn't see it.... ;-)
That seems to be a bug either in mozilla or mozillazine... I specifically asked for a different title and yet got my old one... I think it happens when one goes forward and then comes back-- it restores saved settings.
Any random XML based declarative interface langauge.
#15 Open XUL Alliance - A Rich Internet For Everyone
Sunday April 4th, 2004 8:50 AM
> So what does Gerald Bauer mean by "XUL"?
Well, I invite you to check out the Open XUL Alliance site @ <http://xul.sourceforge.net> and judge for yourself. You might also wonna check out the Luxor XUL Toolkit @ <http://luxor-xul.sourceforge.net> and see what the hairsplitting about the XUL acronym is all about. Peace.
PS: Check out the slide by Ben Galbrait form "Swing and SWT and Alternatives" talk titled XUL that sums it up online @ <http://www.carlsbadcubes.com/blog/life/sdss.html>
I am surprised and very disappointed that this story gets up on moziillazine. As you said, "what Gerald Bauer means by "XUL" is not what the Mozilla community means by it. " So why the heck do you help spread the confusion?!
If anyone care's about a rich internet for everyone than you have to realize that Mozilla alone won't get you anywhere. If you want to create your own Mozilla Meetup Day please go ahead. I'm personally sick of 10000 % pure Mozillla, 10000 % pure Java, 100000 % pure .Net and so on. If you haven't realized it yet the Web, the Internet and Linux thrive because the leave the cultish we-are-the-world one-vendor doctrine behind. Please grow up.
#8 Re: Why Can't We All Get Along
Sunday April 4th, 2004 1:36 AM
geraldb: what about 10000% pure copyright and trademark infringement ? Please give us a break.
#9 Mozilla Meetup Day @ mozilla.meetup.com
Sunday April 4th, 2004 4:40 AM
If anybody cared to check, there's already a Mozilla Meetup Day. See <http://mozilla.meetup.com> Peace.
So you're sick of us, and we're sick of you, and yet you continue to maintain the foolish expectation that we're all suddenly going to change our minds. If you're sick of 10000% pure Mozilla, then leave it alone.
Gerald, please realize that this isn't about pure anything. It's about using a name that Mozilla users have associated with a specific technology-- XUL. (Not just any XML UI Language: XUL.) You seem interested in everyone getting along; the solution to this would be to pick an acronym other than XUL for your generalized term. *XUL* is not a generalized term.
Please consider it. It would be nothing other than a change of terminology, and would prevent further flamewars. If you're interested enough in the Mozilla community to send articles in to MozillaZine, surely you have an interest in having that community's goodwill. As it stands now, your submission of these articles using the term XUL in a non-specific, incorrect sense is just giving you more trouble.
We're not against your developing XML user interface languages. We're not arguing about whether Mozilla alone gets us anywhere. We're just against your refusal to realize that the XUL term is not generic; i.e. it has become more than what it stands for, just as IBM has gone past developing "business machines."
If I start a business selling international business machines, i won't name it IBM, as IBM stands for a specific thing, whether it coincides with the acronym or not. If I settle a Trusted Computing Platform Alliance, I won't call it TCPA, as TCPA is M$/Intel's one.
The same here. XUL is the XML dialect used in Mozilla, without mattering if it is the acronym of XML User Interface Language or not. If all UI languages based on XML must be called XUL, it would become a generic term, what it not. So for you, XAML is XUL, and thus we can also say Mozilla uses XAML, as they are synonymous.
#21 Giving the troll his treat for the day from me...
Sunday April 4th, 2004 3:17 PM
It's not and never has been about Mozilla/Gecko being the sole XUL renderer (at least not among the serious responders). If you want to make your own renderer (Luxor or what have you) and use it, fine! No one here will care a bit; hey, we might even start using it if it's not buggy and lets us put textboxes in scrollboxes (bug 107520). Just don't call it a XUL renderer *unless* it renders only Mozilla-approved elements/attributes in the Mozilla XUL namespace (extensions in separate namespaces are still okay, as Mozilla does with XHTML) and returns an error on all other elements/attributes wrongly placed in that namespace. In that case it's an XML UI Language renderer (or whatever you want to call it, be it XUIL, XIL, etc.), but it's not an XUL renderer.
I'd guess that Mozillazine has more GB's-Generic-and-weird-XUL-like-stuff news items than proper XUL related material. This annoys me enough to write <http://forums.mozillazine…org/viewtopic.php?t=37453>, but perhaps it's ok with the powers that be?
Just a suggestion.. But please don't feed the troll guys (geraldb). While his idea is "ok", he obviously has no respect for other people's creations/property and that just disgusts me. Please don't reply to any of his posts, if you want answers, just look up and other XUL related mozillazine thread and you will see the *crap* that geraldb really is.
#20 G. Bauer, why do you attack open standards?
Sunday April 4th, 2004 12:45 PM
G. Bauer is trying to damage XUL just like Microsoft tried to damage Java when they recognized its power. Or is there any other reason for not honoring the open (!) standard, but beginning to call everything XUL that is related to describing an UI using XML?
No disrespect, but I still do not understand why this news article hasn't been deleted, if everything about it that has been said is true.
Same kind of thing as slashdot - think of it more as a forum than a news site. Anyone can contribute what they like, and if it's a pile of crap, then they'll get a whole bunch of comments saying it's a load of crap. Mozillazine is saying that Gerald wrote this stuff, they're not (in theory) endorsing it.
Personally I agree that they should focus on writing their own articles (which doesn't preclude mentioning a source), rather than posting up other people's crap, but it's their site, if you don't like it, you don't have to read it.