MozillaZine

Turkish Language Mozilla Firefox Article on DarkHardware

Wednesday February 18th, 2004

Mehmet D. Akin writes: "Popular Turkish hardware review and news site DarkHardware.com has a long article about Firefox. DarkHardware members were looking for IE alternatives and site admin Levent Pekcan kindly agreed to publish my article on Firefox. Language is Turkish." We could not make much sense of InterTran's automated English translation.


#1 translation :)

by ahmetaa

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 9:31 AM

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i can say this is one of the best firefox article (and probably the only one in Turkish). But online translation tool unfortunately is horrible. i am really amused since it also translated the authors name as ( the Turkish 'Tommy' D. Raid ). Here some 3000-4000 unique enthusiast visit this page daily.

#2 good arcticle

by berkut

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 11:05 AM

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although I don't understand Turkish, from the screenshots I can see that the arcticle is detailed and shows off the best features of Fx, one of the best arcticles about Fx/Fb/Ph, well done.

#3 They should learn Turkish though

by asteko

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 12:42 PM

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Translator cannot be expected to do its job well, because the article is not in Turkish. :| The author of the page should learn Turkish first. Here are some examples of words or word groups that the author is incapable of knowing the Turkish forms of:

background loading = artalanda yükleme pop-up window = kendiliğinden açılan pencere bookmark = yer imi download = yükleme link = bağlantı (ya da sadece bağ) web = ağ bug = hata plug-in = eklenti

#4 very well

by lostsoul66

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 1:53 PM

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Asteko;

There is a little sweet thing called constructivism. Instead of thrashing somebody's work to the ground, you could e-mail the author about the language he used, and suggest your own replacements. But is is much sweeter trying to be a smart-ass and showing everybody how much smarter you are, isn't it? The author is publishing an informative article on a public website. His aim is to make some more people know about Firefox. Have you ever done something for other people?

Or are you the programmer of that poor translator?

#5 Re: very well

by asteko

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 2:04 PM

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There's something "called respect to your language."

Yes, I have done something more than what he did: <http://asteko.linux-sevenler.org/moz/fb/sss.html>

I'm also helping the translation of Mozilla/FF/TB.

When you search for "mozilla turkish" or "mozilla türkçe" my web site is shown as result.

Are you someone that know about Turkish language much more than me or someone that just try to talk nonsence about something that you don't know about?

#8 Re: Re: very well

by solhell

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 2:25 PM

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You write your own alternative review "and" shut up. What is the hostility, and what is the purpose of discouraging others. It is the author's choice to use certain terms in English if he/she thinks that the reader is more familiar with these terms. It is also possible that the author were not able to decide on the best choice of Turkish term and left it out. I see that you have good suggestions for certain terms and I give you credit for that. Before "repecting your language" you should respect other people and their nice work.

Having said that, I would like to congragulate the author of this article. It is excellent, well thought out and practical in terms of its comparisons, discussion of third party tool compatibilities, useful extensions, shortcuts etc. There is no BS and gives a very objective coverage of the topic (even discusses pros/cons for users of opera, myIE, etc).

This is the best article I have read on mozilla/firebird/firefox reviews. The author makes an extra effort to use Turkish terms (sometimes sounds funny) for tabs, skins, themes etc. I would strongly suggest an English translation of this article.

One thing missing is the discussion of the issue that Firefox interface is in English. Most turkish people are accustomed to Turkish version of IE and are not proficient in English. Also one paragraph and several screenshots on customizing the toolbars will complete this article.

#6 Re: They should learn Turkish though

by ahmetaa

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 2:08 PM

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well, you are wrong asteko, you should change your encoding maybe. Some turkish characters does looks like that in some encodings. it looks perfectly well on my system. Besides, the article, in its raw form is prepared by using mozilla composer as far as i know and author is not responsible for the page owners layout.

#7 you should respect the work

by ahmetaa

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 2:18 PM

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actually since your message was meesed up, i didnt get what you meant first, sorry. it is correct that many words should be used as their turkish equivalents. However, some of the the turkish words you suggested are actually created by microsoft and i do not think they have wide acceptance (like artalan, yer imi). and some corrections to your turkish, download's equivalent is indirme, not yukleme. Yes, Author should have been careful about others, but after all i guess you should respect his work and dedication instead of critisizing the use of language. you reminded me many turkish university professor. i went a master thesis defense, after all you said, everything you prepared sweating, those guys starts critisizing you should use this word instead of that bla bla. i say next time you do a better one and use the correct words!

#9 Re: you should respect the work

by asteko

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 2:37 PM

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I see the encoding problem. It is because Mozillazine lets browser to display it in Western coding, no matter which encoding I prefer. I could change it manually, but I forgot.

Ahmet, I wish you had visited the site of TDK (Türk Dil Kurumu). The ones we use in the translation of Mozilla that include the ones I've given above are offered by TDK. Microsoft can never bring something new to Turkish. I think they confer with TDK. (BTW, "yer imi" is never used by MS.) TDK hase a page that shows the Turkish words for computer and technology stuff. I recommend you to check it out. You should be able to find it at the site. I think that we should follow the good ones they offer us to use. When you use them in real life, they don't sound wired and you get used to.

Yes, I realised it would be "indirme" not "yükleme", but I don't have to edit the message and didn't want to post again.

I respect to his work. It's a great way to find out what Mozilla is. We are in the process of making such a guide which will be published after the translation of FF 0.8 and I think this page will be helpful. I have to mention that I've never criticized his the good work in a way such as "This doesn't help, burn the site!" What made me disappointed that he, who is probably professor or sth, (he's from Tübitak) is not aware of the importance of the erosion of Turkish language.

Sorry that here's turned to a discussion topic. I won't reply here anymore. If you still want to discuss my e-mail address can be found at my homepage.

#10 Re: Re: you should respect the work

by ahmetaa

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 3:00 PM

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asteko, no offense, i am a supporter of use of real Turkish after all, but i think we are a little over reacting when subject is language. i am well aware of TDK, actually one of my main interest in conputing is language (although still an amatur i am, i work on morphology, semantic analysis of turkish) . As for his character, i know the author closely and trust me he also respects Turkish as much as i do. But his education was in englisgh and this article was written in such a short time without much review i guess. And no, he is not a professor. so as you said, lets discuss this elsewhere and spread the word of Mozilla how ever it is..

#11 Re: Re: you should respect the work

by ahmetaa

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 3:08 PM

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and last, actually your page with firefox help is pretty decent too..

#12 I said "last", but....

by asteko

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 3:23 PM

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Sorry if I've acted rudely. Now I realise that I had to contact him via e-mail what I've just done.

Ahmet, I do understand you very well. Can you contact me, please?

#13 I said "last", but....

by asteko

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 3:26 PM

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Sorry if I've acted rudely. Now I realise that I had to contact him via e-mail what I've just done.

Ahmet, I do understand you very well. Can you contact me, please?

#14 Destructive criticism "A la Turca"

by mehmetdakin

Wednesday February 18th, 2004 9:31 PM

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I'm sorry but asteko's words are not easy to swallow. Yes I made some mistakes by using enlglish versions for some words but sentences like "Article is not in turkish" , "he author of the page should learn Turkish first." "incapable of knowing the Turkish" are not considered as nice compliments.

I would just simply corect my errors if he could just point them instead of beating me up to a pulp. This is not we need to embrace Firefox. And yes, you are right, mozillazine is not the place to criticise my Turkish, most of the readers do not know Turkish at all.

And that traslator is really horrible by the way.

Mehmet D. AKIN

#15 Why don't an english version?

by jimich

Thursday February 19th, 2004 5:14 AM

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Mehmet D. Akin, your article seems very good ... Could you (or something other) do an english version (not only a translation)? ... I think it will become a good overview for people which didn't know Firefox ... good job