Camino 0.8 Roadmap Targets March Release

Thursday December 18th, 2003

Mike Pinkerton has published a roadmap outlining the plans for Camino 0.8. The next release of the native Mac OS X browser will be based on Mozilla 1.7 (due out in March) and will focus on stability, polish and infrastructure improvements. People will be able to suggest bugs that they think should be fixed for 0.8 by using a nomination system similar to the one that exists for the Mozilla Application Suite. Camino 0.8 is expected to be the last release that will support Mac OS X 10.1, with all future versions requiring 10.2 (Jaguar) or higher.

#1 Why 10.2?

by Ark42

Thursday December 18th, 2003 7:03 PM

Why drop 10.1 support? Whats so great about 10.2?

#2 progress

by jcraig

Thursday December 18th, 2003 8:03 PM

It's not about 10.2 being so great. It's about development progress being slowed having to support 10.1. Time to move on.

#3 Re: progress

by polidobj

Thursday December 18th, 2003 8:45 PM

Wow this sounds like the equivalent of saying let's not support Windows 2000 anymore.

Is Jaguar that incompatible with Panther? If it is why is it only a point release instead of a full version relese?

But I can think of how this would translate into Windows:

Microsoft isn't developing anything new for IE in OS's other than XP. IE 6.05 I think is supposed to be XP only. But I don't think it's because Windows 2000 is unable to do it rather I think that it's part of their force upgrade plan.

Brian P

#4 Re: Re: progress

by pizzach

Thursday December 18th, 2003 9:42 PM

Actually I think it is because of differences. From what I've heard there are a lot of internal features (Find as you type etc) which are available from the OS and without this, risks looking outdated compaired to Safari.

!-My ideas do not necissarily reflect the actual reason, I am just hypothisizing -!

#5 Re: Re: progress

by jcraig

Thursday December 18th, 2003 9:47 PM

It's not Jaguar vs. Panther. It's Jaguar vs. 10.1, and for all the same reasons Safari doesn't run on 10.1.

#6 Re: Re: Re: progress

by polidobj

Friday December 19th, 2003 6:50 AM

Sorry got the releases mixed up. Not hard to figure I'm not a Mac user but after some searching I found a Wiki on Mac OS X.

10.0 Cheeta, 10.1 Puma, 10.2 Jaguar, 10.3 Panther

What's next Bobcat?

I guess Apple is like the Mozilla Foundation which every release is a point release and not a version release.

But still Puma is only just over 2 years old. And we though Microsoft was bad a leaving old OS's behind.

But again as you said Safai has done the same thing so keeping up with the Jones I guess.

Brian P

#8 but..

by draxil

Friday December 19th, 2003 8:57 AM

Not quite, because the Camino developers don't write macos so not much point in them having an M$ style upgrade strategy of evil.

Still being perdantic aside, most apps other than Camino already need 10.2.

#11 Re: progress

by thelem

Friday December 19th, 2003 1:14 PM

I remember hearing bad things about OSX when it was a new program, with my Mac-using friends saying it 'Has potential'.

If that is the case, then are 10.0 and 10.1 buggy products that no one uses (like Netscape 6), and 10.2+ the standard OSX?

Can someone who uses a Mac comment on that?

#12 Re: progress

by dn15

Saturday December 20th, 2003 4:20 PM

Rightly or not, 10.0 and 10.1 were considered by many people to be incomplete and too slow for regular use. The serious switching seemed to begin with the release of 10.2. I don't personally know anyone still running 10.1, except for our file server at work which uses Mac OS X Server v. 10.1 simply because all it does is share file and run a calendar server so there's no real benefit to be had from upgrading it.

#7 Firebird integration?

by Kovu

Friday December 19th, 2003 8:25 AM

When are Firebird for Mac and Camino going to be combined? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me for Mozilla Mac developers to split their time on two different projects.

#9 Re: Firebird integration?

by polidobj

Friday December 19th, 2003 9:34 AM

I doubt it will happen. Firebird runs totally on the Mozilla Platform whereas Camino only uses the Mozilla Platform for its backend and uses a native Cocoa interface. Its like Galeon on Linux and Kmeleon on Windows. The difference though is that unlike Galeon and Kmeleon, Camino is a mozilla foundation project. So yeah the Mac developers are splitting their time. But Macs present a unique siuation. Firebird does a good job of intergrating into the OS on windows and Linux. So they pretty much look like any other app on those OSs. But on the Mac as far as I know it would be hard to get firebird to integrate into the OS as well as a native interface like Camino has. And Mac users tend to really want their interface to be consistant. So as much as they try to improve firebird, Camino will likely be the more popular browser of the two. Then why do they continue with firebird for Mac? The only thing I can think of is a person who works on more than one platform like Windows at work and Mac at home might want a consistent browser at both locations.

I'm not a Mac user so this is all based on what I've heard about these issues. Mac users can correct me if I'm wrong.

Also in writing this I started to wonder if there would be a cocoa inteface mail client to go with Camino on the Mozilla platform. But I think Mac users would rather stick to the mail program that comes with Mac OS X. Anyone?

Oh and when looking at the firebird roadmap I was wondering why the Mac OS X version of firebird 1.0 is due out 3 months after the 1.0s for Windows and Linux. It looks like that's because when firebird 1.0 is being finished the mac developers will be working on Camino then move on to firebird second.

But another thing that I don't quite get is the timing. The Camino roadmap says: Mozilla 1.7, Camino 0.8 and firebird 1.0 in March. But the firebird roadmap says firebird 1.0 in late april (Mac OS in July). The mozilla roadmap concurs with the Camino roadmap that 1.7 should be in march. But that's labeled as out of date by the firebird roadmap.

Brian P

#10 Not entirely true

by jcraig

Friday December 19th, 2003 9:55 AM

from Firebird Developer Ben Goodger:

The Mozilla Foundation has no staff allocated to Camino. The primary Camino developer is Mike Pinkerton, who still works for AOL.

In other words, Mozilla Mac developers are not "splitting their time" between Firebird and Camino. Camino is strictly an all-volunteer project, built on, as was stated above, a gecko backend, and Cocoa interface.