MozillaZine

Full Article Attached K-Meleon 0.8.1 Released

Saturday December 13th, 2003

Andrew Mutch writes in with news that K-Meleon 0.8.1 is now available for download. Read the full article for more details and download links.


#1 Nice to see more Mozilla apps coming out

by buff

Saturday December 13th, 2003 9:14 AM

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It is nice to see more Mozilla apps continuously coming out. I wanted to post a question for discussion though. Now that the Mozilla Foundation is pushing Firebird as the new browser application hasn't K-Meleon lost some it's importance? I realize the UI is based on native windows 32 API and probably is faster and looks better in Windows XP but honestly I use Firebird on both Windows and Linux and I don't notice any UI performance problems at all. So, what benefit would I get a switching considering the K-Meleon releases occur after the Firebird/Mozilla releases? Discuss...

#3 Re: Nice to see more Mozilla apps coming out

by joschi

Saturday December 13th, 2003 9:41 AM

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While on modern CPU's Firebird is fast enough, if i was gonna set up an alternative to ie on a really old machine for someone, like a pII-266 mhz or something i'd definitely rather give them K-Meleon than firebird.

#4 Re: Re: Nice to see more Mozilla apps coming out

by buff

Saturday December 13th, 2003 10:10 AM

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That's a good point. I hadn't really considered that. I use Firebird on a 1 Gig Hz Athlon linux box which is fast enough to make Firebird feel snappy. But by current standards my system is old. A P2 266 box is ancient history. It would make more sense to use K-Meleon on it but none of the modern Windows OS's such as XP or 2000 would probably work on a system that old. I would think the performance of Windows would be unbearable on them. So you would probably have to use good old Windows 95 or 98, which are unsupported OS's now. Ugh, what a mess that would be.

#16 Re: Re: Re: Nice to see more Mozilla apps coming o

by zergis <ziczergis@netscape.net>

Sunday December 14th, 2003 1:11 AM

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Actually, I've been using Windows 2000 on my old P-233MMX/64MB RAM for a few months, and it works just fine. Though it works better on my P2-400/256MB ;)

#26 Re: Re: Re: Re: Nice to see more Mozilla apps comi

by MarkHB

Tuesday December 16th, 2003 6:29 AM

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Dare I add that K-Meleon is the only way I've found to run a Gecko-based browser on my 486-100 (running Win95)? the kicker is, even on that box, it renders pages more quickly than Communicator 4.8!

#27 Mozilla on a 486

by amutch

Tuesday December 16th, 2003 6:36 PM

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Yes, we've had several people who run K-Meleon on 486s running Windows95. We probably won't go with the slogan "The best browser on a 486" but it shows you don't need a new computer to run a standards-compliant Mozilla browser.

#28 Where Mozilla Firebird runs well...

by martrootamm

Sunday December 21st, 2003 8:55 PM

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Well, if you ask me, then Mozilla Firebird will run well on Pentium 266 MMX, if that computer would only have 64M of RAM /I don't know about Windows 2000, but I would suggest that Windows 95 or 98 would run very well on that machine.

K-Meleon is more for those machines that are simple, pre-MMX Pentiums (the likes of Pentium-S, maybe even older, I've seen here comments about some 486 machines being utilised) and computers that only have 32Mb of RAM.

#25 Re: Nice to see more Mozilla apps coming out

by hobbes78

Monday December 15th, 2003 11:03 AM

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Not using native widgets is a pain in the ass. When Sun discontinued the development of AWT in favour of Swing I stopped being interested in Java, just as an example. Why? It's slower. It breaks user interface (UI) consistency across a platform, one of the most basic principles of UI design; typically, attempts made to imitate the look and feel of the native widgets turn out to be weird (double clicking separators in column headers of a table doesn't work, text boxes don't have context menus, etc), and always lagged (I remember seeing Windows 3.x widgets in Windows 95, seeing cold grey widgets in Windows 2000 and still today I see widgets not following my Windows XP theme selection). It blocks accessibility programs to interact to an application. Other programs also stop working (my scroll wheel only worked in the Open File dialog box when I switched from Netscape 4 to Netscape 6; this is because it continued to be native). If I want to take a screenshot of a widget (e.g., by using the capture component feature of Paint Shop Pro) I can't. It's reinventing the wheel. The code to render widgets appears twice or more times in a system. Luckily recently Gecko started rendering native widgets (instead of ugly Motif-like ones) and K-Meleon is reaching 1.0, so I gave up thinking in abandoning the use of Gecko-based applications.

#29 Widgets, UI design and screenshots

by martrootamm

Sunday December 21st, 2003 9:04 PM

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Seeing Windows 3.x widgets in Windows 95 is actually related to which operating system a program was initially designed for. If a program was designed for Windows 3.1x, then it shows well there, but in Windows 95 it would be given that it would look 'older', the same would apply to Windows 95 widgets in Windows xp, for example...

Your scroll wheel should work well in Netscape 7.1 or in any contemporary Mozilla version.

Taking a screenshot of an individual object in a window might be tricky or difficult with what you are using. Instead, if you want to take a screenshot of something (I understand that a widget is a button, for example, among other things), then make sure the window where your widget is -- is active, press Alt+Print Scrn (Print Screen), open Paint, paste the image, then select your desired object and cut it out and paste it somewhere else.

As for ugliness, then beauty is in the beholder of the eye, AFAIK.

#2 Why switch?

by amutch

Saturday December 13th, 2003 9:22 AM

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It depends on what you are looking to do. Firebird implements some features that K-Meleon does not yet have. On the other hand, if you do want to customize your browser, K-Meleon is very easy to modify to look and act exactly the way that you want. Some people will appreciate the ability in K-Meleon to use only the features that you want, making the browser even faster and more responsive. Plus, continued K-Meleon development helps work out bugs in the underlying embedding code that Firebird might not encounter. We leave it up to the users to decide what works best for them.

#5 Why....

by mr_magoo

Saturday December 13th, 2003 10:39 AM

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Agreed amutch, it might have a few extra bits n bobs, but i still see very little reason as to why a Firebird user would switch. from the screenshots on the website, it looks quite inferior to it.

#6 Maybe not Firebird, but IE

by jedbro

Saturday December 13th, 2003 11:31 AM

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True. But I don't see k-meleon as a Firebird Cross-over product. It holds a better function as a replacement for Explorer.

#7 re:

by wde

Saturday December 13th, 2003 12:28 PM

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I like it better than firebird simply because it is the fastest browser I have ever used. Even pages load up quicker on my system with it. And I am using a 2 ghz, so it isn't top of the line, but it isn't outdated.

#9 Re: re:

by buff

Saturday December 13th, 2003 4:24 PM

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I don't know if it is possible that it loads pages up faster than Mozilla Firebird. The Gecko layout engine is the same C++ code in Firebird as it is in K-Meleon. I thought only the UI wrapper would be faster since it is native. Anyone have any real stats that show rendering is faster? Possibly NGLayout was tweaked for K-Meleon. I don't know. Anyone familiar with the NGLayout source code have any information about any code differences that could account for page rendering time?

#13 Re: Re: re:

by wde

Saturday December 13th, 2003 5:51 PM

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Well, I can't say I have any statistics, but it sure seems faster to me. Anyway, it is all Gecko, so we're all on the same side :) .

#8 fast

by techn9ne

Saturday December 13th, 2003 3:15 PM

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Its faster than mozilla firebird. thats why i use it. I have a 1.8ghz machine.

#10 I love Microsoft Internet Explorer XP

by juany_tucan <joaquinvillage@uol.com.ar>

Saturday December 13th, 2003 5:03 PM

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hey man, why using this stupid browser, if Microsoft IE is a perfect web explorer, and comes ready to use and integrated with Microsoft Windows XP Pro? It really protects your privacy, and it doesn't let virus pass, not like this horrible sort of explorer that you try to force the world to use. Fuck you all, I'm happy with XP......P U T O S

#11 Re: I love Microsoft Internet Explorer XP

by nilson <nilson@gmail.com>

Saturday December 13th, 2003 5:17 PM

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Haha... Good one, dickweed.

#12 Re: I love Microsoft Internet Explorer XP

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Saturday December 13th, 2003 5:21 PM

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Watch the language.

Alex

#14 Re: Re: I love Microsoft Internet Explorer XP

by nilson <nilson@gmail.com>

Saturday December 13th, 2003 6:45 PM

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Ok, sorry.

#18 Re: I love Microsoft Internet Explorer XP

by jedbro

Sunday December 14th, 2003 11:33 AM

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putos? puto tu jefe cabron. La neta son mamadas lo que dices, obviamente no tienes ni la menor idea de lo que dices.

#15 crashes

by techn9ne

Saturday December 13th, 2003 7:59 PM

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Crashes everytime you look at it funny.

#17 crashes

by amutch

Sunday December 14th, 2003 8:09 AM

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Please provide actual examples of what is causing it to crash. There are still a few odd bugs that cause crashes but in normal operation, it's rock solid.

#19 Re: crashes

by buff

Sunday December 14th, 2003 1:01 PM

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I use Firebird as my main browser on linux and it rarely crashes on me. I have had the same process of Firebird running for about a week now without a crash. It appears more stable to me than IE on Windows. I have two plugins running: the Flash plugin and Java 1.4 and they both are stable and work great with Firebird.

#21 crashing

by wde

Monday December 15th, 2003 2:04 AM

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I've noticed some crash problems too. Mainly when another program launches while k-meleon is open.

#20 spoof

by wde

Monday December 15th, 2003 12:16 AM

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well, i see it has the url spoofing problem fixed in the new version. that's good.

#22 CTRL-L does not work?

by fedetxf

Monday December 15th, 2003 7:03 AM

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Seems to me there's no shortcut to set focus to the location bar.

#24 Re: CTRL-L does not work?

by amutch

Monday December 15th, 2003 9:59 AM

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ALT + D

You also define your own keyboard shortcuts in Accelerators. You can find that under Edit - Preferences - Configs - Accelerators.

#23 About IE

by marcanth

Monday December 15th, 2003 7:09 AM

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juany_tucan,

If you like IE, that's fine. I will only tell you that one day I installed Win XP in a computer and right after installing it (running for the first time) I installed Spybot and it spotted at least 5 spywares installed with the system. IE has many many security holes (as you can see on the front page of Mozillazine). The browser you say that is ready to use, does not appear to really be like that. It doesn't block popup windows and misses lots of features and many things you can have in Mozilla Firebird. One last thing... I understood what you said (I am brazilian and can understand Spanish and English), so, please watch the language.

#30 About rendering speed

by martrootamm

Sunday December 21st, 2003 9:29 PM

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Well, there is really no difference to me with regards to rendering speed between Mozilla Firebird and K-Meleon, whichever API are they using. Because on new or modern computers /modern to me is already a 699MHz Celeron with 128M RAM, I use the Mozilla suite anyway and on these computers rendering speed usually depends on how fast your connection is.

As for older, pre Pentium-MMX computers, I am more concerned about startup speed and the overall speed of the computer when running either Mozilla Firebird or K-Meleon.

For example: Pentium-S 120MHz, 32M RAM.

It is fine with Netscape Communicator 4.08, but some pages with excessive or outright bad CSS are too slow, so I would often have to turn off CSS support. The computer would work very fine with Netscape 3.04, for example.

In that machine, Mozilla Firebird may take up to 40 seconds until I see it and then only when other applications are shut off (save AIM, msn messenger, AVG). If there are too many tabs, windows or frames open, the computer will considerably slow down.

With K-Meleon, its way different, because it has a loader (which also takes memory, so I sometimes exit the loader) and starts in about 10-15 seconds without the loader.

One of the biggest drawbacks in K-Meleon is still the fact that I can't reload frames.

Java Runtime Edition 1.3.1 is out of the question, I would need an MMX machine for that. As for Flash, I am utilising version 3r18. Flash 3 originally came with Netscape 4.08, so I only made an upgrade from what I think was version 3r8 /version 3 release 8.

If anyone wants to compare the rendering speed of browsers, then I suggest you could visit <http://www.trekweb.com> . It utilises heavy graphics and CSS and lots of bickering.