IE5 Released - Not HTML4, CSS1 or XML Compliant

Thursday March 18th, 1999

IE5 is out, and not only is it incompatible with CSS1, but it's DOM is faulty (and proprietary) and HTML4 support is incomplete. Also, it's XML Namespaces implementation is just plain wrong. It does poorly on the Import test, and renders the boxacidtest improperly (and badly).

On an interesting note, the article I linked to above was available this morning. Now, if you go to and find the same article (it has a new link), you'll find that all of the criticism regarding MS's standards compliance has been placed on a second page of the article. Look at the two links to see what I mean. Curious, no?

In response to criticism of their standards support, Microsoft's Mike Nichols said, "It's ironic that people are challenging our standards support when we have led by a substantial margin in this area since IE4". As I mentioned before, expect Microsoft to blame Netscape for Microsoft's lack of 100% standards compliance. The first person to point us to a new article that makes this claim (Microsoft already stated something similar months ago) will get a MozillaZine T-Shirt, when they come available. Our T-Shirts are still in the design phase, but we expect to have something soon.

Folks, stay calm. The Mozilla team is working hard to get a basic browser/mail-news reader into your hands that you can start using full-time. If you need standards compatibility, just go to our fetchBuilds section and download the latest build for your platform. You can see how the new browser, "apprunner", is shaping up, and try out your pages in the testbed viewer, undeniably the most standards compliant browser on the planet.

#38 Re:IE5 Released - Not HTML4, CSS1 or XML Compliant

by Mark Wilson <>

Saturday March 20th, 1999 1:27 AM

You are replying to this message

Capturing the developers is CRUCIAL to the long term success of Mozilla/NS. Without the developers, nothing long term can happen.

Visual basic is there because of the ease of use and components. Linux is there because of developers. Mozilla is here because of developers. BUT what program make the web pages out there for the mass market? Interdev and Frontpage. Unless Composer unseats those two, the proprietry extensions that they offer will become a wa of life and then a norm and then a standard.

This talk of adding in frames for Composer is setting the sights so ridiculously low that any work done to achieve it is simply wasted work. No, what is needed is Aurora thinking, DOM-Javascript thinking, OSS extensibility, making web pages into object which are easily manipulated from outside. Making server extensions to web servers (the MS Frontpage extensions are available on UNIX, NT and others...) to increase the tight fit of Mozilla/NS and the Composer and the web servers. Make Composer the FIRST choice.

I have been thinking about the XPFE and its sexy crosss-platformness. And you know what I realised? After being so excited I realised that this is a C world you all are living in. It's like being racist or sexist. I as a VB developer (the largest group and the group which churns out the most work, because we reuse objects and components and its just do damn easy to use) we are sidelined. Mozilla's good ideas are aimed squarely a a minority developer market if you count the numbers out there. It 3 or 4 to 1 in favour of the VBers.

Regardless of how you feel about that, here is the point. Unless you win the MASS of developers over... pages will be developed in the competitiors editor targetting the competitors browser. Frequently I browse different sites with the different browsers, just because I MUST see the site in its full glory (for example training sites)