IE5 Preview at

Wednesday March 17th, 1999

So, news about IE5 is beginning to trickle out, and it's beginning to look a lot like Mozilla. The equivalent of a "What's Related" button has been added as well as a "Web Accessories" feature that we got a glimpse of last year with Mozilla's configurable chrome. No indication of standards compliance (still). My latest bet is that IE5 won't even be HTML4 compliant, much less CSS1 compliant.

IE5 is supposed to be released tomorrow. I'd be interested in knowing the download sizes for the different installs. Feel free to submit info to us tomorrow, if you're brave enough to download it.

#22 Re:IE5 Preview at

by Mark Wilson <>

Friday March 19th, 1999 4:38 AM

You are replying to this message

Frodob, I totally see where you are coming from. And lets consider what you said. No developer would use Composer. Why? Because the features aren't there. The fact that it is COMPLIANT (with some of HTML) is irrelevant, you as a freelance developer will only use a development environment which ENHANCES your development skills.

Now do you see my point? MS says "stuff it" to standards and gives developers the best damn features and tricks to do the coolest stuff.

Take XML as an example. We will make Moz 100% by the book. MS will make XML/DOM development techniques so it uses ODBC and so XML is a layer over db tables and so that the text boxes on the forms are dynamically data bound to both the XML and to the tables.

So, in the end, we are compliant (YEEHAA!) and they have the hearts and minds of the developers. We have the hearts and minds of the users (YEEHAA!) and their developers and PUMPING out IE5 web pages. Since those pages look cooler in IE5, users will think fondly of us and what will they do? They will surf with IE5.

I love Netscape and I love the OSS tradition and I love to love it. It's romance embodied in technology and devlivered by Wired mags and read by people like you and me. True believers.

But the developers dont give a sh*t and they will use the stuff which makes their lives and their web pages ALIVE!! I have been checking out the MSDN and Visual Interdev in the last few weeks and this is what has caused me to change my world view.

They have made web pages into objects. You can call webpages.method (and to make a procedure a method, you just declare it as one with what they call a "design time controls" - its doesnt affect the HTML or the user AT ALL please note) but it makes it easier for the developer(notice a trend here). Whats also cools is you can call other pages methods and have your current page data (such as a lookup dropdown box) update - without submitting your page.

So, bottom line. Unless you guys get some sexy new technology in there and unless Composer ships and makes it damn easy for developers to prefer Mozilla, the user will love you but the street developers (not the big shop developers) will go with the tight fit of Interdev and Ie5 and NT server.

Last comment. We are following the standards. They are participating in creating them. CDF, XML. We wait for the standards to emerge, they piss everyone off by jumping in feet first and splashing on everyone else.

I am more than happy to carry on this conversation with anyone outside of this forum. I believe its important. Standards is the achilles heel, but unless you win the developers by giving them a super-duper Composer filled with wizrds and tricks and includes and totally extensible, well...