Minutes of the mozilla.org Staff Meeting of Monday 3rd November 2003
Wednesday November 5th, 2003
The minutes of the mozilla.org staff meeting of Monday 3rd November 2003 are now online. Issues discussed include Mozilla 1.5.1, the new Roadmap, Mozilla 1.6, mirrors and FTP and the website beta.
#1 sidebar support
Wednesday November 5th, 2003 7:38 PM
This might be slipped of your radar but dirt.netscape.com is gone so I like to know how this bug <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214819> will be fixed, because I guess both <firstname.lastname@example.org> and <email@example.com> no longer care about this kind of stuff.
Also, will any of the sidebar bug be fixed, in the near future, or is your plan to drop it, in favore of the moz bird thing? In other words, will you continue to support/work on XUL/JS related bugs, now that a bird browser is imminent.
I've updated the bug with some HTML which will hopefully make the sidebars work (it works for me). The HTML was originally written by Netscape.
#2 Drawing attention to bugs
Thursday November 6th, 2003 2:35 AM
The 1.5 release of Mozilla broke the conversion of mail profiles from Netscape 4. I've created a bug describing this problem - <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=224699> - but I'm concerned that it won't get any attention. This isn't a whinge, as I realise that developers have little enough time as it is. What I'd like to know is if there are any other appropriate channels to draw attention to this regression. Given the huge volume of bugs in bugzilla, do new ones still get noticed, and is their any priority given to regressions such as this one?
#7 Re: Drawing attention to bugs
Thursday November 6th, 2003 7:00 AM
You can nominate a bug as blocking the next release, although if you do it too often and/or not on bugs that are actually extremely critical you'll start pissing the drivers off fairly quickly...
#13 Re: Re: Drawing attention to bugs
Thursday November 6th, 2003 8:49 AM
I did wonder about nominating the bug as a blocker, but decided against it. I've always got the impression that bugs are unlikely to be accepted as blocking unless they are already being actively fixed. There's almost a chicken-egg situation here. Having said this, should I try nominating as a blocker for 1.6b and seeing what happens?
#14 Re: Re: Re: Drawing attention to bugs
Thursday November 6th, 2003 9:54 AM
Marking a bug as a blocker doesn't mean that work will happen, it means that the release will be be held up by it. Unless the bug is a regression from the previous release, or something that's being actively worked on and is nearly ready, it's very unlikely to deserve to hold up a release.
Blockers are, as the name suggests, things that block a release being made. They're not a to-do list for things that are planned to happen before a release (that would be the 'target milestone', which should only be set by the person working on the bug).
It would be nice if the development of the new website would be "localization friendly". That is... allow translators to translate it. It could have a language auto-detect, and show the aprropiate language if available.
Everyone (IE, Opera, Netscape, Mozilla SeaMonkey...) has language set to their own language, except for FireBird users that do not have an option to do so (unless hacking the about:config).
I think this would be a great aproach to making the site more user-friendly to the end-users. Give it to them in their own language! :)
#4 Re: Website-beta localizations?
Thursday November 6th, 2003 4:59 AM
I would imagine that making the site localization friendly is too much of a huge task for the short term. The "new" website, AFAICS, consists of new templates, and a few rewritten key pages - the rest of the site still needs a lot more work to make it coherent and consistent in English, let alone localizable.
Firebird users who need to switch languages don't need to hack about with about:config - there is an extension which adds a language menu <http://texturizer.net/fir…bird/extensions/#langmenu>
#11 Re: Re: Website-beta localizations?
Thursday November 6th, 2003 7:46 AM
It shouldnt be that complicated... Once the design is done (yes, finish that first) then all texts can be inserted into a database. Upon page request the server looks up what language to serve. Or you could probably do it more simple, by redirection, if language other than english, go to mozilla.org/language/ But yes, I agree there is enough work right now with design on it's own... but it would be nice if they keept this in mind.
As for the other coment on FireBird... you cant really expect all international people to install the language menu extention, it's not realistic. Only 0.5% would do so, most not knowing that it exists, what it would do, and so on... I only investigated about it when I realized Google was speaking to me English instead of my system's Spanish.
#12 Re: Re: Re: Website-beta localizations?
Thursday November 6th, 2003 8:06 AM
The added complication it that the website is managed with CVS, so that many people can change various bits of it independently in an auditable way. So you'd need to have that database tied to CVS somehow, which adds another layer of complexity, and you'd also need to have some means of getting the localised versions updated when there are changes.
And I wouldn't expect all international people to know about downloading the language menu - localized versions should set the appropriate language; when things get a bit further developed, the switch language extension will probably be offered by the installer as an option or something, along with some other bundled extensions.
#20 Re: Website-beta localizations?
Friday November 7th, 2003 12:07 AM
It could be handled with Apache's content-negotiation feature (after all, that's what it's for). Assuming a translation is already in hand, creating a version of the page which serves up automatically at the appropriate time is a cinch, and it could be kept in CVS just like all the others.
If the translation isn't already in hand, putting a link at the bottom of every page with an email address to send translations to would probably take care of that.
#5 November 3rd meeting, or October 3rd meeting?
Thursday November 6th, 2003 6:22 AM
Your article says the minutes are for the November meeting, but the notes on news.mozilla.org say they're from the 10/3 meeting, which is October.
#6 Why isn't there an update on the mozilla website?
Thursday November 6th, 2003 6:49 AM
FYI: link I used: <http://www.mozilla.org/status/minutes.html>
#9 Re: Why isn't there an update on the mozilla websi
Thursday November 6th, 2003 7:22 AM
Because that page links to the articles on Google's newsgroup archive, which take a while to appear, and Alex hasn't got around to it in the couple of hours since they did.
Alex?! Where are you man? Hurry up! Sheesh... anyone would think you had something better to do than watching minutes appearing...
#8 Re: November 3rd meeting, or October 3rd meeting?
Thursday November 6th, 2003 7:11 AM
If you look at the followup posts on the newsgroup, you'll see that the October date originally posted was a mistake. The Mozillazine date of 3rd November is correct.
#10 Slowdown in number of hits for new releases.
Thursday November 6th, 2003 7:41 AM
I'm just going on my own experience here but if there was a wizbang new release of firebird I'd be straight there - but a new mozilla release just doesn't interest me anymore, I haven't used the mozilla bundle in about a year - sorry! Maybe time to step up the focus on the standalone products?
#15 Re: Slowdown in number of hits for new releases.
Thursday November 6th, 2003 9:57 AM
People are working on them, but it's going to take until mid-late 2004 to get firebird + thunderbird + addons to the stage where they can replace the suite.
#16 Re: Re: Slowdown in number of hits for new releases.
Thursday November 6th, 2003 10:47 AM
That's the problem with the suite. Mozilla needs to get Mozilla Browser 1.0 released ASAP. That's what people are waiting for. They need to get a standalone browser out and start to build a userbase that's on one version. We do not need mail bundled with our browser. Most of us don't even have a choice as to which mail client we can use. Let the mail and plug-in groups go on their merry way but get the Browser out soon.
#18 Re: Re: Re: Slowdown in number of hits for new rel
Thursday November 6th, 2003 5:35 PM
I agree. Mozilla has a golden opportunity to build up a half descent user base before MS releases longhorn in 2006 with the next version of IE. Unfortunately, they will no doubt piss it away screwing around like they did the last time.
#19 Re: Re: Re: Re: Slowdown in number of hits for new
Thursday November 6th, 2003 10:08 PM
Feels like time is just crawling by doesn't it? When IE 7.0 is released with Longhorn Mozilla won't be able to brag about it's great features... tabbed browsing, download manager, and password manager. IE 7.0 will have all of that plus the ability to turn off Flash animations, an add-on manager and more. Mozilla has the chance to get a great product out and ample time to build a loyal base of users, but not if it takes a year or more to get that product out. It would truly be a shame for the release of Mozilla Browser 1.0 to be overshadowed and dwarfed by the release of Longhorn and IE 7.0. The development pace does make that appear a possibility.
#22 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Slowdown in number of hits for new
Friday November 7th, 2003 1:56 PM
Patches accepted. There's only so much the current set of people contributing patches can do all at once, and they're doing it. So we need more people who write good code. ;)
But imagine if IE were to get native MNG support before Mozilla (bug 18574). How much of an embarrassment would that be?
I use mozilla(Browser/Chatzilla) around 1 day per week on a every day clean win95 installation with NS 4.7 ... so I'll find regressions on win95. Also add me (<firstname.lastname@example.org>) to win95 bugs to look.