MozillaZine

Full Article Attached Minutes of the mozilla.org Staff Meeting of Monday 22nd September 2003

Monday September 29th, 2003

The minutes of the mozilla.org staff meeting of Monday 22nd September 2003 are now online. Issues discussed include Mozilla 1.5 final, Mozilla 1.4.1, Talkback, Mozilla Thunderbird, the September 30th deadline, the Roadmap, the Mozilla Foundation employees mailing list, localisation and moving the web and mail servers.


#1 roadmap

by vfwlkr

Monday September 29th, 2003 2:58 PM

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> > Roadmap > * To be updated shortly by brendan > * Lots to say >

Talk about building up hype!

#2 Reply

by Racer

Monday September 29th, 2003 3:58 PM

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My understanding is that the original talkback program was licensed by Netscape for use with Netscape/Mozilla. This program, although not part of the Mozilla project, was packaged with Mozilla for bug squashing purposes. Was the license donated to the Mozilla organization or is some other method being used for talkback?

#12 Re: Reply

by Gerv

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 1:30 AM

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The Mozilla Foundation has acquired a license for Talkback. We are in the process of finalising the arrangements and setting up our own Talkback server.

That isn't to say, of course, that if someone wants to implement an open source version of Talkback, that wouldn't be fantastic ;-)

Gerv

#15 open source talkback

by jondo

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 2:00 AM

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Gerv, have you read bug 216827? Maybe someone else would be more successful in contacting OOo.

#20 Re: Re: Reply

by mcsmurf

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 5:28 AM

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i thought the company who offered talkback doesn't exist anymore?

#21 code

by mcsmurf

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 5:29 AM

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btw: the code of openoffice crash reporter is here <http://ooo.ximian.com/lxr…/sal/osl/unx/signal.c#282>

#3 Before you know it, you're there...

by alcatraz52 <red.baron@rogers.com>

Monday September 29th, 2003 4:09 PM

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on news.mozilla.org--in the browser! This is a great ostension of the benefits of having a suite.

GREAT!!! feature :)

#4 Re: Before you know it, you're there...

by vfwlkr

Monday September 29th, 2003 5:38 PM

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What extension do I need?

#5 Before you know it, you're there...

by alcatraz52 <red.baron@rogers.com>

Monday September 29th, 2003 7:13 PM

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I'm not using any :(

It's Mozilla 1.5Rc1 if that helps.

#6 Re: Before you know it, you're there...

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Monday September 29th, 2003 7:24 PM

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Perhaps vfwlkr thought your use of the term 'ostension' was actually a typo of 'extension'?

Alex

#10 Re: Re: Before you know it, you're there...

by vfwlkr

Monday September 29th, 2003 11:28 PM

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Yes, I did take it for granted that it was a typo ;-)

btw, i'm using mozilla firebird 0.7RC

#7 Minutes claim there are no blocker bugs left (???)

by pkb351 <pbergsagel@shaw.ca>

Monday September 29th, 2003 7:41 PM

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"1.5 Final update

* Half a dozen bugs left * RC2 sometime this week; planned for Thursday * Nothing on the list which is a regression over 1.4 — which is good"

What about this bug->"Bug 213639 Browser crashes when attempting to download on Mac OS 10.1.5"

I would certianly classify a download crash a regression. As Far as I can tell this bug has not been fixed. :(

On a happier note it seems as if Mozilla is making progress. Yeah!!!

#17 Re: Minutes claim there are no blocker bugs left (

by mlefevre

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 3:20 AM

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It says there is "nothing on the list" - that bug (and a bunch of others) aren't on the list.

You need to read the minutes carefully, and remember that they are just snippets from the discussion and may be out of context.

#18 Re: Minutes claim there are no blocker bugs left (

by wgianopoulos

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 4:53 AM

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If you look at the bug today, you will notice that the patch for this has been checked in today and they are looking for testers. It should be in the next nightly.

#19 Re: Minutes claim there are no blocker bugs left (

by wgianopoulos

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 4:53 AM

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If you look at the bug today, you will notice that the patch for this has been checked in today and they are looking for testers. It should be in the next nightly.

#8 default news program

by fishbert

Monday September 29th, 2003 9:12 PM

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How odd. I clicked on the minutes link and Outlook Express tried to open it. I don't like that. I want Mozilla Thunderbird to handle newsgroup stuff. I am currently on a quest to find out how to resolve this, but so far I have found nothing helpful. In fact, where I have about 5 different options for email handlers in my WinXP registry, I only have Outlook Express listed as a news handler. Can anybody help me out here?

#14 Newsgroup reader

by jeti

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 1:41 AM

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Wouldn't it be most appropriate if Firebird launched Thunderbird to display the newsgroup?

(Or whatever is set as the default viewer for newsgroups.)

#26 Mozilla 1.4 handled it - Re: default news program

by Malc

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 6:47 AM

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I'm using Mozilla 1.4. It rendered the news article in a browser window. It didn't try to use any news clients.

#9 Re: Default news program

by Ascaris <ascaris1@att.net>

Monday September 29th, 2003 11:07 PM

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Fishbert,

I got that too, and I was annoyed, given that I don't even have Outlook Express on my system anymore (XP home SP1).

To change the program to Thunderbird, go to Tools/Folder Options/File Types, and change News: protocol from msimn.exe to thunderbird.

I did that, and it brings up Thunderbird now when I follow the link, but nothing happens other than that. I remember that Mozilla needed to be told to have an external mailto: at one point... is there something like this for news? Is there a command line better than "thunderbird <url>"?

Thanks, Frank

#11 Re: Re: Default news program

by wimhuls

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 12:36 AM

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The same problem here. I found a bug filed: <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=219796>

#13 Localizations

by johann_p

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 1:37 AM

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There are so many web pages of contributors out there - not only providing localizations but also giving help, showing translated versions of mozilla.org pages etc. and hardly one gets even mentioned on Mozilla.org. I am disappointed that after so many years this immense potentional of support and useful information for users is still being ignored on mozilla.org - it is not only code contributors who provide valuable work for the Mozilla project.

#16 Before i know what you mean by ostension ...

by PaulBe

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 2:50 AM

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So what do you mean by "ostension" if this was not a typo?

I could find on <http://www.ostension.org/> : The word 'ostention' comes from the Latin 'ostendere', to show. It was used by semiotician Umberto Eco to refer to moments in oral communication when, instead of using words, people substitute actions, such as putting a finger on your lips to indicate that someone should be quiet. Folklorists Linda Dégh and Andrew Vázsonyi appropriated the term in their 1983 article "Does the word 'dog' bite? Ostensive Action as a Means of Legend-Telling" to refer to ways in which real-life actions are guided by legends.

#31 Re: Before i know what you mean by ostension ...

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Thursday October 2nd, 2003 5:32 AM

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"So what do you mean by 'ostension' if this was not a typo?"

I believe alcatraz52 used the term 'ostension' in the sense of an action that demonstrates something more strongly than a word. In this case, alcatraz52 thought that the Mozilla Application Suite's way of seamlessly loading a newsgroup message demonstrated its advantages better than any words could.

Alex

#22 WTF ? Articole has expired ?

by _mf_

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 5:50 AM

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A lesson in usability. The average new internet user has no idea what newsgroups are and will never use them, much less from a server that requires authentication. My NG server now indicates the article has expired.

Don't expext much "normal" people to jump on board if you can't even provide a link to the minutes without generating 10+ comments about problems. For the rest of us, there's a "FULL ARTICLE" link right there. Or here: <http://www.mozillazine.or…articles/article3754.html>

#23 Re: WTF ? Articole has expired ?

by mlefevre

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 6:01 AM

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news: URLs are a bit hopeless, but that's where the original content is published (and google groups doesn't seem to have it any more), so I don't see what else they can do by way of linking. Maybe just make the link in the short version also point to the full article, and bury the news: URL down the bottom of that somewhere.

I'm not sure how many "normal" people are interested in the minutes of meetings anyway. Normal people can wait for the releases and the roadmap update to actually appear...

#24 Right, but...

by leafdigital

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 6:25 AM

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...some of us abnormal people also don't have news working in browser.

(I have no idea why not. I'd rather not have to find out. :)

Anyway thanks for posting the full article link, so it's not a problem...

I can't wait for the new roadmap :> Ok, that's an exaggeration. Still, I'm mildly interested to see the new or modified roadmap.

#25 Re: Right, but...

by mlefevre

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 6:31 AM

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That's true - the link didn't work for me either. I don't normally read news from this computer, so my Firebird started up OE, and OE doesn't accept news: URLs containing port numbers. The port number is redundant anyway, as 119 is the default - it's like putting ":80" in your web links...

#27 The average interner user

by Malc

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 6:54 AM

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The problem with the average internet user is that they no longer get given a proper introduction to the internet. Most people I've introduced to the Usenet love it. Many people have thanked me for introducing them to groups.google.com - it's often far easier to find answers there than on the web. The Usenet isn't going to die anytime soon as the number of internet users utilising it is still increasing, even though the percentage of them is decreasing. Even Microsoft are pushing the platform more, and looking to leverage it, especially today in technical circles. It's all about educating people - and I think most people prefer reading threaded articles in a proper client rather than web browser once they've been properly introduced.

As for your point about authentication putting people off... you're probably right. But does it matter in this case? Is the ordinary internet user even going to be marginally interested in the content? I don't think so. This case isn't the time or place to be advocating the Usenet.

#28 Link

by Valen314

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 7:25 AM

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Please dont post News Links to news.mozilla.org. a simple news:<3F7877BE.50807@mozilla.org> should do the work and it connects to my default Newsserver

#29 Re: Link

by mlefevre

Tuesday September 30th, 2003 12:48 PM

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There's no good way of doing it. Simply linking to message ID won't work if people don't have a news server with the newsgroup on it already set up. Whichever way you do it, it's not going to work for a lot of people...

Best thing would probably not to make the news: link so prominent, and just link to the "full article" page.

#32 Re: Link

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Thursday October 2nd, 2003 5:38 AM

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"Please dont post News Links to news.mozilla.org. a simple news:<3F7877BE.50807@mozilla.org> should do the work and it connects to my default Newsserver"

As far as I know, the Mozilla newsgroups are not really part of Usenet. They are located on news.mozilla.org; however, some other news servers carry them. And serverless news URLs would be no good for people without any newsgroup accounts set up.

This is why we normally link to Google Groups. It's Web-based, so most people that can reah MozillaZine can click throught o the groups and it's a lot more permanent than the messages stored on many news servers. The only exception is when Google Groups hasn't cached a news posting at the time a MozillaZine article goes up. Then we have little choice but to use a news: URL.

Alex

#30 roadmap changes

by mielke

Wednesday October 1st, 2003 10:22 PM

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>Roadmap

> * To be updated shortly by brendan > * Lots to say :-)

I only hope that the document will be better than the last one. I would epxect a clear perspective showing that the funtionality of the components already in the tree with tight quality control(r/sr) can be found in the new world of separated apps. More than this I would like to see that the users(customers) who have loved netscape for years for the integrated suite will get the functionality they are expecting with a single download as before. Hopefully the myth of cvs checkins across the codebase will be removed from the roadmap. Is it really a problem that we face today with our much reduced contributor base? Or is that some phantom pain from the good old days when netscape had money.

#33 Re: roadmap changes

by leet

Thursday October 2nd, 2003 3:25 PM

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No more "integrated" monolith. Resources, or a lack thereof, is probably the biggest obstacle to concentrating on releasing suites, because it means the development schedule has to be coordinated and, say, Tb won't drag on while Fb sits waiting, or vice-versa. You can already get the apps separately, so that's not much of an issue.

If what you mean is having one program a la Communicator, well, I'm just thinking about what would have happened the last time MozFb crashed. No, I'm trying not to think.