MozillaZine

Introduction to Thunderbird Part 8, Introduction to Firebird Part 1

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003

Morten W. Petersen writes: "Kay Frode has created another article introducing new users to Thunderbird, which explains how to create and use newsgroups accounts. Also note that translations of the series are available in French, German and Norwegian. Any comments? Thanks.

"PS: We've started another series introducing new users to Firebird and would like suggestions on what topics to cover."


#1 Introduction to Firebird

by jrobbio

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 1:57 PM

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I understand that there is much more need for Thunderbird to be explained since its an inherently more complicated package although a lot of Firebird's best features are not always obvious (think about type ahead find and what happens when you press / first). After you've gone through the basic package, large subsections showing what the extensions can do as well as explaining the whole module idea of Firebird would be useful.

Oh and watch your spelling, it can easily degrade a good article.

#5 Re: Introduction to Firebird

by morphex <morten@nidelven-it.no>

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 4:17 PM

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Yeah, got that point on spelling. I'll make sure Kaye runs it through the spellchecker next time. Thanks! :)

#15 Re: Introduction to Firebird

by morphex <morten@nidelven-it.no>

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 7:07 AM

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Yes, we'll be going for an introduction of basic browser features first (tabbed browing, popup blocking, configuration, etc.) and then go on to extensions. Which extensions do you think we should cover?

#2 illegal tradename usage

by bugs4hj <bugs4hj@netscape.net>

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 2:47 PM

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He is *still* using the wrong name. You are not allowed to use Firebird nor Thunderbird alone, it *must* be use like this: mozillaFirebird and/or mozillaThunderbird. Hey, you might end up into a legal battle one day because of this, which you will lose for sure.

Also, there should be a *HUGE* bumber sticker on the pages about mozillaFirebird and mozillaThunderbird being in fact just another refactorded mozilla browser and a refactored mail/News client. This is *JUST* another mozilla client. You get it?

Ok, the XUL has been changed, not to mention JS/XML and CSS files, but it is *STILL* the same thing, it only looks different!

Is mozilla a bad thing to use? Is it a bad taste to name it mozilla? What is this bullshit?

Remember, again, there wasn't a mozilla[whatever bird] without mozilla at the first place. Sure, in year 2010 it might ;)

Hey, why not make a 'perfect' MSIE skin copy, that might do the trick :D

#3 Re: illegal tradename usage

by jedbro

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 2:59 PM

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You sure seem to love to rant about these things. First off: I respect your opinion. But for me and many others, I am very sure that Mozilla Firebird is not "JUST another mozilla client". IMO it is much-much more than that.

"Is mozilla a bad thing to use? Is it a bad taste to name it mozilla? What is this bullshit?" Dude, Lay off the coffee!

"Remember, again, there wasn't a mozilla[whatever bird] without mozilla at the first place. Sure, in year 2010 it might ;)" Why is this relevent?

"Hey, why not make a 'perfect' MSIE skin copy, that might do the trick :D" So now we are talking about MS?

#4 Re: Re: illegal tradename usage

by bugs4hj <bugs4hj@netscape.net>

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 3:32 PM

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Nothing to do with ranting, but you seem to have a colored perspective, but I don't. I just don't like this "hallelujah Firebird" stuff, because that is way to short minded for my taste.

"Why is this relevent?"

Well, in fact this is highly relevant in perspective of my first issue, being that they should state [birds] as being a new mozilla client, and not as some new world class browser, because it still stinks in many ways for 98% of the browser users.

"So now we are talking about MS?"

The aim is to get more users attracted, which mozilla/netscape failed to do btw.

I guess this shit is way to confusing for people, but I don't care. I've been a hightly respected editor for 5 years during my final study years, so I think I know where the heck I am talking about. This fake and misleading marketing nonsense is not going to work for well educated people.

#8 Re: Introduction to Firebird

by morphex <morten@nidelven-it.no>

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 5:48 PM

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Firebird's userbase is growing, and it has been recommended in several leading publications (PC World, Linux Journal, Salon and Time). The Mozilla project hasn't failed, it's actually succeeding.

I've tried Firebird on several non—technical friends, they like the look and the features, and they're using it as their default browser today.

You *might* have been a respected editor for the last 5 years, but you don't know what you're talking about here.

#9 Re: Re: Introduction to Firebird

by bugs4hj <bugs4hj@netscape.net>

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 9:25 PM

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"The Mozilla project hasn't failed, it's actually succeeding."

Where do you read that? I never said or wrote that!

"I've tried Firebird on several non—technical friends, they like the look and the features, and they're using it as their default browser today."

"You *might* have been a respected editor for the last 5 years, but you don't know what you're talking about here."

I *was*, and I amn proud of it. It's a long time ago, not the last 5 years, I didn't write that, another error.

/ignore

#10 Re: Re: Re: Introduction to Firebird

by Fasse

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 12:23 AM

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Is the only problem you have, that he didn't write mozillaThunderbird or mozillaFirebird ? I don't know why you are so angry. Are you frustrated that the mozilla*bird have now more public and are more user friendly than the mozillaSuite ? But they are both Mozilla and no one want to change or conceal this.

#11 Re: Introduction to Firebird

by morphex <morten@nidelven-it.no>

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 3:15 AM

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"Where do you read that? I never said or wrote that!"

You wrote that Mozilla/Netscape failed to attract users. That's wrong.

I'm going to stop the discussion here, since you obviously have some issues.

#14 Re: Re: Introduction to Firebird

by bugs4hj <bugs4hj@netscape.net>

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 6:22 AM

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Yeah, 7% at most, wow, what a huge number compared to over 90% for MSIE.

I have issues? Ha, but I'm not the one that runs into a class lawsuit for illegal use of trademarks! That my friend, is you, not me, goodbye sucker.

#20 What's the problem here?

by googolplex

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 4:56 PM

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You are clearly over-reacting to other members comments. It would be nice if people could remain civil around here.

#6 I read until I read a few of your statements

by tseelee

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 5:28 PM

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"it still stinks in many ways for 98% of the browser users."

I guess I've been very lucky, in that I've converted my friends with 100% success rate from IE 6.

#7 I read until I read a few of your statements

by tseelee

Tuesday September 23rd, 2003 5:32 PM

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"it still stinks in many ways for 98% of the browser users."

I guess I've been very lucky, in that I've converted my friends with 100% success rate from IE 6.

#12 Installer

by mozwiel

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 3:50 AM

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IMHO, this first introduction again points out a serious issue that needs to be resolved before Firebird is ready to make its way to John Doe's desktop: the lack of an installer...

#13 Re: Installer

by mlefevre

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 4:20 AM

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I think sorting out an official installer is on the list for 0.8 (although that could slip). There are unofficial installer builds available already.

0.6.1 and 0.7 aren't ready for John Doe yet (and I think it might be too late for John Doe - I saw on a TV show last night that John Doe had been killed...)

#16 Re: Re: Installer

by morphex <morten@nidelven-it.no>

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 7:09 AM

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Where can the installer builds be found?

#19 Re: Re: Introduction to Firebird

by bugs4hj <bugs4hj@netscape.net>

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 12:47 PM

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Great, having installer based builds is just something most users needs, so that issue seems solved now. Are the empty directories under mozilla/ now also gone?

Next thing to work on is to reduce the total size for both the browser and mail packages. After all, why downoad two packages if you can do the same, and more, with one?

What are the key features you people need from mozillaThunderbird? What is it that you need and still can't find in the mozilla suit? What number of extensions do you have to install before you are totally happy?

#21 I think you're missing the point

by googolplex

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 5:00 PM

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The point of Firebird is to make a simple browser for the masses, not a browser like the Mozilla Suite than only technically inclined people can figure out.

#22 Re: I think you're missing the point

by bugs4hj <bugs4hj@netscape.net>

Thursday September 25th, 2003 9:30 PM

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Not exactly. I have four young children, and they can use mozilla without problems, so tell me something, how stupid is the mass compaired to my children?

My youngest son, Brian Anthony, is only 6 years of age. The oldest, Michael Vincent is almost 12 and can already do a fair bit of HTML. Darn, I guess we are a bit to smart for mozillaFirebird or it is just a bit to simple for us :D

You all jump on mozillaFirebird, but does it render your pages any better, I don't think so. It's all about the looks.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I like mozillaFirebird as a project, but just not as my personal browser. It just doesn't fit me.

#23 But

by googolplex

Friday September 26th, 2003 4:52 PM

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But, the Mozilla suite hadn't received the aclaim that Firebird has already received. It is obviously, that more people like the interface of Firebird than the Suite. I can understand it maybe not being for you, but it is good for Mozilla as a whole to appeal to the largest segment.

#18 Re: Installer

by morphex <morten@nidelven-it.no>

Wednesday September 24th, 2003 8:53 AM

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Ah, excellent. Thanks for the tip and the links. :)

#24 I think..

by smkatz

Saturday September 27th, 2003 1:38 PM

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that reccomending unofficial installer builds is silly, because their unofficial. I think you should say,

"The reason many people like zipped builds is because it makes the browser small and won't (in theroy) disrupt any of your existing settings because there's no installer doing god knows what to your system." So, if you could just bear with us..

--Sam P.S By the way, when you right-click and click "New-->Shortcut" you have to click "browse" and then you get an "Open" dialog, not a "browser". Have you ever considered using Wiki?

#25 Re: I think..

by morphex <morten@nidelven-it.no>

Sunday September 28th, 2003 1:47 PM

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OK, we'll mention the unofficial builds and why they are unofficial. Using a Wiki to maintain the documents could be a good idea, I'll look into it. Thanks. :)