Mozilla 1.5 Release Schedule Update
Thursday September 11th, 2003
mozilla.org driver Chris Hofmann has posted a newsgroup message outlining the schedule for Mozilla 1.5. Two release candidates are planned, with the final builds set to come out during the week commencing September 29th.
#1 I still don't get this: planned RC's
Thursday September 11th, 2003 2:01 PM
I may be nitpicking, but how can they be planning for more than one RC to be released? Imho, a release candidate should be just that: a build that just might be released if it turns out to be as good as we expect it to be. Calling a build RC1 when you are already sure there will be an RC2 is a bit odd, no?
#2 Re: I still don't get this: planned RC's
by Phobeus <Phobeus@gmx.de>
Thursday September 11th, 2003 2:04 PM
I think it is a consequent planning with the right portion of pessimism ;)
#5 Re: I still don't get this: planned RC's
Thursday September 11th, 2003 5:35 PM
I don't get why you "still" don't get it - the same here applies as it did with the 1.4 "release candidates"
The first "release candidate" isn't actually a candidate for release. There are a bunch of known bugs that need to get fixed before the release, and they won't all get fixed for RC1. However, a whole bunch of stuff has got fixed since the beta release, and that needs testing.
If you're going to be picky, then RC1 should probably be called "beta 2" or something, but it isn't.
#8 Re: Re: I still don't get this: planned RC's
Thursday September 11th, 2003 11:04 PM
That's what he's saying: it's called a Release Candidate, but it's not actually a candidate for release.
#12 Re: Re: Re: I still don't get this: planned RC's
Friday September 12th, 2003 4:42 AM
The term 'bug' doesn't refer really a small creature living inside your computer. The meaning of terms changes from the original meaning. In Mozilla terms, a release candidate is a build cut from a release branch. Sometimes these have a list of known issues that will be fixed before the final build. Whilst I don't claim to have great familiarity with the Microsoft beta program, I believe that lots of their products have multiple release candidates.
#3 1.5 features
Thursday September 11th, 2003 2:50 PM
So what whizbang new things are in 1.5 over 1.4?
That's what the Release Notes are for: <http://www.mozilla.org/re…zilla1.5b/README.html#new>
1.5 completely broke bookmark-groups to the point where you should stick with 1.4.1 1.5 has a spellchecker, but I never use it anyway. If only there was a calendar with the stock Mozilla, that would be kick ass. (no plugin/extension counts)
"If only there was a calendar with the stock Mozilla, that would be kick ass. (no plugin/extension counts)"
Why not? Honest question, seeing as there is a very nice calendar extension which integrates well. Are you really so immature as to demand that it all be part of the same download? Please don't tell me you've bought into the Microsoft lie that in order for programs to integrate well, they have to be made by the same company and all be inextricably tied together...
#22 Re: Re: Problematic behavior with tab groups
Friday September 12th, 2003 10:18 AM
Because I don't want to ever worry about the thing not working in future versions, so until a version matching the version of the rest of the programs comes in the same installer, I won't use it. When the switch to Thunderbird and Firebird is complete and the Suite is no more, I expect to be able to download one installer that contains both Thunderbird and Firebird, as well as DOM Inspecter and Chatzilla, and have a nice little list of checkboxes where I can check that I want to install these extensions, so that I am guarenteed they will work with the version of the main program they are extending, and so I never ever have to go hunting for them to re-download after each upgrade of the main programs. I really dont care how integrated or separated the code is, I just want them all distributed in one installer, because I'm not ever going to hunt down more files every time I download a new version of Mozilla.
#10 A spellchecker. That's it.
Friday September 12th, 2003 2:08 AM
I hate spellcheckers for email, always turn them off, and don't use Mozilla for mail anyway. Apart from that, at least according to the release notes, it is basically just bugfixes/performance stuff. (Well, they claim to have improved Chatzilla - not exactly a challenge, since simply binning it would be a huge improvement.)
Maybe the performance/fixes, plus spellchecker, are a big enough deal to merit the 1.5 tag but I don't know... I think now there is much less development as far as features are concerned on the app suite (assuming that's the case? I don't actually know) it might be better to back off the 'release a new version every few months even if we haven't actually done anything' strategy, instead perhaps releasing less often or only when significant features have been achieved.
Then again, maybe that's what they're doing; obviously some people do think a spell-checker is an important feature, and there must be some poor bastards who use Chatzilla as well.
By the way I want to clarify that I'm not bitching or anything, I didn't pay for this and I'm not doing any work for it either. Nobody appears to have done any features I want for this release, but that's fair enough since I am one of that 'nobody' who hasn't done anything. Just seems to me that, for a .1 version increment which would usually suggest new features (rather than a .0.1 increment which would suggest bugfixes and minor performance tweaks), those release notes look a little thin. That's all.
#13 Re: A spellchecker. That's it.
Friday September 12th, 2003 4:44 AM
Mozilla releases (like many other large open source projects) are time based and have been for quite a while now.
> there must be some poor bastards who use Chatzilla as well
Hey! I use it. I don't think it's that bad.
#16 Re: A spellchecker. That's it.
Friday September 12th, 2003 7:47 AM
> Maybe the performance/fixes, plus spellchecker, are a big enough deal to merit the 1.5 tag but > I don't know...
In Mozilla-release-note speak, "performance/fixes" means anything from "major architectural changes to the layout engine" to "fixed some random bugs". 1.5 is closer to the "major changes" end of that spectrum.
#17 Re: A spellchecker. That's it.
Friday September 12th, 2003 8:00 AM
Mozilla developers fixed over 1,000 bugs and features during the 1.5 cycle.
As much change happened in 1.5 as happened in 1.4 (roughly 110 people checked in changes to 210,000 lines of code).
I think other browsers (and other software products) have made more considerably larger version number leaps with fewer improvements. We've changed nearly a quarter of a million lines of code and bumped the version up by 0.1 and you think that's unreasonable?
#19 Re: Re: A spellchecker. That's it.
Friday September 12th, 2003 8:43 AM
But if one looks at the release notes, there's a list of 12 things in "what's new" - 11 of them probably account for probably a few thousand lines of code, and the "improved performance, stability, standards support and web compatibility" appears in every version to describe every other change.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong, it's just that most people would probably think that fixing up a few lines of XUL was a more significant change than rewriting tens of thousands of lines of gecko code.
I'm not sure if describing the back-end changes in more detail would make things better or worse...
#20 Re: A spellchecker. That's it.
Friday September 12th, 2003 8:47 AM
It's great that Mozilla development isn't only about adding more features but also about improving the core, the engine of Mozilla. Improvement of the quality of the suite is as much a reason to increment the version as adding more features. I would not mind at all a milestone with absolutely no new features, only architectural redesign and such.
#6 This blocker bug for not in the 1.5b release notes
by pkb351 <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Thursday September 11th, 2003 9:05 PM
On the Mac there is a bug which I believe should be nominated as a blocker for at least 1.5 RC3 if not RC1.
Downloading a (any) file i.e. a mozilla nightly causes Moz 1.5b to quit.
Any idea on the status of this bug? Is it being treated as a blocker for the 1.5 release.
BTW I love the 1.5b which I tested. I am sorry I had to stop using 1.5b when I encountered this critical bug. :(
could we have a change log?
there has not been any visible differences between 1.4 RC1, RC2... and now, with 1.4 final, there are some critical bugs, including biff mail checker.
these guys at moz dev team are having fun i suppose.
from Asa's blog: 'Lots of folks have been sending me e-mail or asking on IRC, "So, what's new in Mozilla 1.5?"' - more at <http://weblogs.mozillazin…/asa/archives/004049.html>
And as for the "guys at moz dev team" - you should remember that the "team" included 50-odd Netscape staff until July, and now it doesn't. Obviously things will go slower when you have 5 people instead of 50.
#18 Re: Re: mozilla1.5 release...
Friday September 12th, 2003 8:23 AM
"And as for the "guys at moz dev team" - you should remember that the "team" included 50-odd Netscape staff until July, and now it doesn't. Obviously things will go slower when you have 5 people instead of 50."
Things didn't really go slower and we're not down to 5 people either. In June there were 48 not-netscape people landing code, in July there were 63 and in August there were 67. The number of non-netscape contributors have matched or exceeded Netscape contributors for many months and had been rougly tied for many months before that.
In Mozilla 1.1, we had about 200,000 lines of code changed by 140 people. In 1.3 we had about 195,000 lines of code changed by about 130 people. In 1.4 we had 230,000 lines of code changed by 125 people. In 1.5 we had about 210,000 lines of code changed by 110 people. I'd say we've done about as much work in 1.4 as we have in any of the previous 1.x releases.
There were a couple fewer new features introduced in 1.5 than some of the earlier milestones (and their inevitable regressions) so hopefully we've made some big leaps in quality and stability. And there have been feature improvements too. There have been new features and major improvements to features in Composer, Mail, Dom Inspector, Chatzilla, View Source, Tabbed browsing and more.
#21 Re: Re: Re: mozilla1.5 release...
Friday September 12th, 2003 9:50 AM
ok, so what I said was an exaggeration, but I still think development has slowed.
and you can prove anything with statistics...
"In June there were 48 not-netscape people landing code, in July there were 63 and in August there were 67."
In June there were 35 netscape people landing code, in July there were 24, and in August there were 7 (if I'm counting right).
And that's just counting the volume of code changes - I've seen several people mention the reduction in technical QA stuff. I'd have to doubt the leaps in stability too - seem to be quite a few crash bugs floating around.
Anyway... you've convinced me that development isn't slowing as much as I thought...
I noticed that the skin version was upped to 1.5 from 1.2. Seamonkey won't even be in use by the time the next stable branch, correct? In this case, any UI changes are useless. In addition, is the Mozilla 1.4.1 release with spellchecker still planned?