MozillaZine

Full Article Attached Mozilla 1.5 Alpha Freeze Date Moved to July 9th

Tuesday June 24th, 2003

Asa Dotzler has announced that an extra two weeks has been added to the Mozilla 1.5 Alpha milestone period to account for the current development focus on 1.4. The milestone schedule section of the Mozilla Development Roadmap has been updated to reflect this change, with the new freeze date set to Wednesday 9th July.


#1 Seamonkey, not Firebird?

by DavidGerard <fun@thingy.apana.org.au>

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 10:48 AM

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So, is this the Seamonkey branch? If Seamonkey is continuing past 1.4, will it actually be used for anything past then? I understood that Firebird and Thunderbird were where the action would be ...

#2 Re: Seamonkey, not Firebird?

by mlefevre

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 11:22 AM

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1.4 is the Seamonkey branch, yes.

The trunk (moving towards 1.5alpha) is currently still on Seamonkey, and probably will be for 1.5alpha. Whether or not Seamonkey will be used for anything past then is, I think, still an unanswered question, but the plan is for the main focus to be Firebird and Thunderbird. The question of exactly when and how the switch from Seamonkey to Firebird/Thunderbird will happen isn't resolved yet either. Things will hopefully become more clear nearer the time (and if not, then we'll certainly know after they've happened! :) - that's still at least a month or so away...

#3 Re: Re: Seamonkey, not Firebird?

by bzbarsky

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 11:55 AM

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> The question of exactly when and how the switch from Seamonkey to > Firebird/Thunderbird will happen isn't resolved yet either.

Once it gets resolved, it will take some time to make it actually happen... and those are not the sort of changes one makes in a beta. I would have thought that the alpha milestone would have been extended to about a month past the point when this issue got resolved, if there is to be a hope of shipping 1.5 with the Firebird UI.

#5 Re: Re: Seamonkey, not Firebird?

by mlefevre

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 12:07 PM

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as I understand it, the plan is to release the alpha in a couple of weeks, make the 1.5beta release simultaneous with Firebird 0.8 and Thunderbird 0.1 a few weeks after that (having done a Firebird 0.7 first). Presumably they will then do the big changes in the couple of weeks between the beta and the final release... ;)

Of course, that makes no sense at all, and it isn't the official plan. The official plan seems to be not to plan anything. Which is quite cunning... if you don't plan, things can't fail to go as planned :)

#6 Re: Re: Re: Seamonkey, not Firebird?

by bzbarsky

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 12:27 PM

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> The official plan seems to be not to plan anything.

Seems that way to me..... ;)

Well, there is some planning for moving shit around in the tree, but at the moment it looks like that will either happen during 1.5b (bad idea) or during 1.6a (whenever that is).

Of course it's my personal opinion that the project would be best served by just not trying to produce a stable build two months hence and focusing on making the major arch changes we want to make....then having a nice stabilization period afterward.

#4 Reply

by Racer

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 11:59 AM

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Some people are using the term 1.5 to describe Firebird/Thunderbird/other together but it is questionable if 1.5 will be developed much at all. Also, Firebird & Thunderbird are on different branches than 1.4/1.5 so moving the 1.5a freeze date forward indicates that either 1) Firebird/Thunderbird may be packaged together as 1.5 or 2) 1.5 will continue to be developed separate from Firebird/Thunderbird as the underlying supporting trunk for Firebird/Thunderbird.

#7 Re: Reply

by bzbarsky

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 2:30 PM

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> but it is questionable if 1.5 will be developed much at all.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean....

#8 Re: Reply

by JBassford <jasonb@dante.com>

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 5:55 PM

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> it is questionable if 1.5 will be developed much at all

Since 1.5+ [i]is[/i] Mozilla, to say that it won't be developed is wrong. Once Firebird/Thunderbird merge with the trunk, they will continue to be developed as part of the trunk - and part of the Mozilla Suite. In fact, once 1.4 final is out, there will be a flurry of activity around 1.5+ and it will receive almost all of the coding attention. (Especially during the merge phase.) Moving the freeze date forward has no impact on Mozilla's plans other than to slightly delay the merge so that more time can be spent on finalizing 1.4. I think you need to read the roadmap again...

#9 Re: Re: Reply

by JBassford <jasonb@dante.com>

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 5:55 PM

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Ack! I always get messed up by the differences between the forums and the main site (one using bbCode, the other not).

#13 Moz 1.5

by pkb351 <pbergsagel@shaw.ca>

Thursday June 26th, 2003 11:42 AM

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Racer,

"Many Mozilla users (including myself) have been confused by this whole 1.5/*bird issue and you saying that 1.5 will become Firebird/Thunderbird has never been spoken clearly to the Mozilla community at large. Yes, I'm sure many of the developers and other supporters knew this, but not all of us follow the project so closely."

I wonder if the confusion about Moz 1.5 in the Moz Community exists since hiearchy at Mozilla is still discussing/determing what to do with seamonky (trunk) and FireBird/Thunderbird. I suspect there is still much discussion how much, if any, code from Seamonky will move to Firebird/Thunderbird.

Slightly off topic: I hope 1.5 improves the preferences. Using Firebird I am constantly finding items I wish were in the preferences. Some sites work well with Smooth Scroll, while others do not. It is not convient to go to "About:config" to make these changes.

I know several have commented that Firebird/Thunderbird is not intended for end users. There is a major fear that pops up here for me. If recent tech news has been followed one can definitely see Microsoft tightening up its grip on the internet. Microsoft has dumped stand-alone IE (Mac/Win versions). Media Player 9 is only available for Windows and the Media Player pluging for browsers than IE is unable to handle scripting. AutoUpdate on Windoews requires IE. Dot.Net will be Windows only and likely require the use of IE as well. Do you see were this is leading -> there is a possibility that the Internet may require Windows and IE to be full accessible and functional. I am hoping that the Eropean Union can reign in MS's current anticompetitive behavior (something the DoJ failed to do), but I am not betting the farm on it.

My point is that the Internet has to remaing platform (i.e. OS/processor) independent and browser independent or the Internet is in danger of becomming the playground of MS. I am not willing to settle for an MS dominated Internet. There are so many better options to Windows/IE/Media player for internet access.

Now back to Firebird/Thunderbird. Mozilla 1.5 (along with Composer++ for individuals to create standards Web sites) are tools to help prevent MS from dominating the Internet. I don't want to banish MS from the internet, I simply want to see competition restored. Mozilla.org can help keep the internet competitive. Netscape can help achieve this goal as well and has its place. Mozilla .org has to realize the main tool it has to combat and Internet dominated by MS (and possibly requiring Windows and IE) is not Netscape 8.0 (although this will help) but is Mozilla 1.5++. When Mozilla.org states that Mozilla is not for end users this is not the best thinking in my mind. Maybe the nightlies can calim to not be for end users. But we should encourage end users to use the stable milestone releases. And Mzoilla has to be made a little bit easier for end users in my opinion! Part of achieving this is to develope an easier to use set of preferences. We do not need a "bare bones" or "minimalist" set of preferences. If the preferences UI is well developed (<semi serious rant>boy do I wish we had some Apple volunteers at Mozilla to assist with this</semi serious rant> adding many more useful preferences should not confuse too many "users". If we want Mozilla to be a part of helping to keep the Web competitive and less dependent on MS?Windows and IE the need for users to have to use "about:config" or for that matter edit a JSPreferences file must be minimalized.

Sorry for the rant, but I sure hope the end user is remembered as we progress to 1.5. IMHO the end user is the future of Mozilla. If the end user needs to personally know a geek in order to use Mozilla 1.5 then I believe Mozilla 1.5 will have partially failed.

Just my hunble 1-1/2 cents.

#14 Indeed

by rwvaughn

Thursday June 26th, 2003 1:49 PM

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Frankly I couldn't agree with you more.

#10 Reply

by Racer

Tuesday June 24th, 2003 11:32 PM

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I said that "Firebird/Thunderbird may be packaged together as 1.5" and I think your statement answers the first poster's question. Many Mozilla users (including myself) have been confused by this whole 1.5/*bird issue and you saying that 1.5 will become Firebird/Thunderbird has never been spoken clearly to the Mozilla community at large. Yes, I'm sure many of the developers and other supporters knew this, but not all of us follow the project so closely.

Current, Firebird/Thunderbird are developed separately from the main Mozilla trunc as Phoenix, etc. (with the projects still contributing to each other yet still separate). It would be nice to know with an announcement or something that 1.5 will become Firebird/Thunderbird (or vice versa).

#11 Re: The End of Netscape?

by erickleung

Wednesday June 25th, 2003 9:24 PM

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To my understanding, the project Seamonkey should be limited within the scope for Mozilla 1.4. And Firebird/Thuderbird is made for Mozilla 1.5 and beyond, and it should be a milestone for a new birth of Mozilla.

#12 Re: The End of Netscape?

by erickleung

Wednesday June 25th, 2003 9:24 PM

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To my understanding, the project Seamonkey should be limited within the scope for Mozilla 1.4. And Firebird/Thuderbird is made for Mozilla 1.5 and beyond, and it should be a milestone for a new birth of Mozilla.