AmiZilla Project Continues to Grow
Saturday June 7th, 2003
David Gates (davidATdiscreetfx.com) writes in with an update on the AmiZilla project, which aims to raise a bounty for the first person or team to port Mozilla to Amiga OS. Since we last reported on the effort, the pot has grown to $3,661 and an AmiZilla FAQ and a set of AmiZilla guidelines have been created. In addition, an AmiZilla marketing campaign has been launched to gain publicity for the project and an AmiZilla Yahoo! Group has been set up to help coders collaborate on the port. Finally, the German Amiga Arena site has interviewed Bill Panagouleas, the founder of the project, with some AmiZilla-specific questions towards the end of the article.
Update! David Gates contacted us again with news that several parts of the AmiZilla site, including the FAQ and guidelines, have been updated. The FAQ now contains information about Hot CoCo, a future project to build a Java Virtual Machine for the AmiZilla port. The campaign also has its own mascot (think Green Mozilla after a series of oestrogen injections) designed by Eric Schwartz. Finally, Slashdot has reported on the porting effort and the booty now stands at $4,045.45.
Who cares about Amiga anyway?
I am an ex-amiga user and I do care about the availability of Mozilla on this platform. If mozilla is ported and the new AOS4 with recent hardaware isn't too expensive, I may consider buying an amiga for home use. The amiga was the best home computer I ever had and your comment is as stupid and insulting to as the comments from windows fans asking why we care about Mozilla when everybody uses IE.
Clearly, the people who are willing to pay money to get Mozilla ported to the Amiga care.
But then again, who cares about Mozilla anyway? Clearly IE is where it's at.
I do care :) I have used Amiga since 1989 and it still is my hoppy and it will be in the future too :)
I thought the fastest Amiga hardware was based on the 68030 chip that runs at like 40MHz. It's not something I've really paid any attention to though. Were there more hardware offerings for the Amiga platform after the early 1990's? I'm sure some Googling would turn stuff up, but I just can't be bothered on a Sunday afternoon with 35 degree weather!
yes... fastest Amiga right now: AmigaOne XE G4/800 MHz :-) There is no AmigaOS Version available, but will be in 2-3 Months ;)
Are modern Amigas compatible with PPC hardware, most commonly attributed with Apple Macs, perchance?
indeed they are, and have been for some time, in fact. PowerPC accelerators have existed for the Amiga pretty much since around the time the first PowerPC Mac was produced. There has never been a native PPC AmigaOS for these accelerators, but there were certain ways in which programs could make use of--or run entirely on--the PPC instead of the native 68k processor.
Now the current Amiga (trademark) owners have established a roadmap to 1) get the AmigaOS moved into the 21st century and 2) eventually make it processor/hardware independent. The first steps on this roadmap are a ground-up rewrite of the "classic" OS to modernize it and make it more portable, and to move it over to PPC native kernel and OS components.
The AmigaOne hardware with PowerPC G4 processors exists and is selling *now*. AmigaOS version 4.0 is on the way.
Just want to speak about Pegasos/MorphOS
The Pegasos is a new MicroATX motherboard bassed on the PowerPC processor. It is using the same northbridge (ArticiaS) as the AmigaOS but bPlan(the designer) made a fixed for this chipset named "April". Without april the ArticiaS is buggy (DMA is not working, slower).
MorphOS is a new OS compatible wqith the old AmigaOS 3.x API and including a 68k emulator. So it is able to run AmigaOS 68k software as well as PPC software. MorphOS is fast/stable and in heavy developpement (some features are still muissing, mainly drivers).
I hope it's clear even if I can understand that it seens complex for a non Amiga fan
Just to make it clear. AmigaOS4 is the official new Amiga operating system. AmigaOS4 is not ready yet, nor is MorphOS. A÷lso AmigaOS4 will be PPC native, it will have m68k emulation for old software compatibility.
And those Articia bugs are not so clear. people are not so sure if same bug can cause problems both in AmigaOne and Pegasos. It's also possible that VIA-chips are those which cause problems. you need just to look Amiga forums like <http://www.ann.lu> to see that discussion. Many AmigaOne users have not been able to reproduce those problems which Pegasos users did have before the fix. So that issue still is not clear.
No. If you think about Classic Amiga (A100, A500, A2000, A1200, A3000, A4000 etc, then fastest Motorola 680x0 CPU you can use is 68060 66Mhz. That's a lot faster than 68030 40Mhz. There is so called accelerator boards for the Amiga. First accelerator were released already many many years ago. I have A1200 with Blizzard 1260 accelerator with 68060 50Mhz CPU. That's something like Pentium 90Mhz when you think about speed.
But it's also possible to connect PPC accelerator to you A1200, A4000 etc. Depending on you Amiga model you can buy eg. PPC603e 240Mhz or PPC604e 200Mhz. Those PPC accelerator were also released first time many years ago.
BUT. There is now also new next generation Amigas (AmigaOne Pegasos). Those were released just recently. Those Amigas are based on PPC G3 and PPC G4. So those are same CPU's which eg. MAC computers use. Fastest G4 you can use right now is G4 800Mhz. Those new motherboards do have also standard PCI, AGP, USB etc.
So there is no reason why you could not run Mozilla on current Amigas. There is enough power to run it. Hardware is not any problem anymore.
Is it still graphics and games like in the 80's/early 90's? Are there many programs available for it? Is it owned by a private company? Open source? Do any EOMs build for it? Just courious. It was a fun machine back in the Commador days.
#28 Re: What are people using amiga for?
Tuesday July 1st, 2003 5:39 AM
> Is it still graphics and games like in the 80's/early 90's?
No. Most of the active Amiga users do now have gfx-card in their Amiga. Eg. I have Voodoo3 3000 PCI gfx card connected to my A1200T. You can use normal standard PCI cards in your Amiga if you buy PCI-busboard first. Best PCI-busboard is Mediator PCI, which is available for most of the Amiga models (no A500 model). So you can have good and fast 16bit, 24bit or 32bit graphics with any resolution which is upported by eg. Voodoo3.
Voodoo3, Voodoo4 and Voodoo5 are the most modern GFX-cards which you can use with Classic Amigas like A1200. But for the new AmigaOne and Pegasos nextgeneration Amigas there is/will be drivers for eg. ATI Radeon AGP-cards.
If you think about games then it depends on what people want to create :) There is 3d-accelerated games like Quake2, Heretic-II, Descent freespace etc for the Classic Amigas with gfx-card and fast CPU (060 or PPC).
It will not be any problem to run modern games with the new Amigaone or pegasos. there is enough power.
> Are there many programs available for it?
Not as many as for Windows that's clear :) but there is enough good software for normal everyday use. Ofcource Amiga does not have eg. modern webbrowser like mozilla or uptodate office software. I hope we will see those now when we have new hardware after 10 years :)
#29 Re: What are people using amiga for?
Tuesday July 1st, 2003 5:43 AM
> Is it owned by a private company?
Yes it is.
> Open source?
If you mean AmigaOS then no. AmigaOS and kickstart-roms are not free or opensource, Those still are commercials product. And new AmigaOS 4 is under development.
There still is commercial software and hardware development for the Amiga.
I really wonder if porting Mozilla on Amiga is a good idead !
1. It will be very hard, very long ! 2. AWeb (an OpenSource AmigaOS browser) needs devellopers 3. Improving AWeb faster (to develop and to use). 4. Mozilla is dannn slow compare to others Amiga browser
And long may the development of the "AWeb" browser for AmigaOS continue. I think it's good that Mozilla is ported to AmigaOS, first reason is, that it is one extra platform that Mozilla would be available for, and second, wouldn't it be nice for users of AmigaOS to have a choice of browsers to use on their systems?
Of course it would be nice but I do think what it is not a good idea. Because, as I see, it's really too hard, too long to do.
I really think what we should give all this money to a great coder who should work at full-time on AWeb during 2 months ! It would really boost AWeb, and would benefit to everyone (AmigaOS 3.x, MorphOS, Amithlon, AROS with a recompilation, and AmigaOS 4.0 if realeased one day).
I don't agree with this thread. Neverthesless, even if I would prefer to improve AWeb than to port Mozilla.
About Mozilla port I would say: "Why not?". I do not believe in this port nut I would be happy if it's done.
And it will take about 10 years Aweb to be as good as Mozilla now. Aweb is not even as good as IBrowse.
Quote from the Amizilla page (<http://www.discreetfx.com/AmiZilla.html>) "But what about IBrowse? What about Voyager? you say. Well IBrowse is a very good browser from <http://www.iospirit.de/> if you need something today buying that would be your best bet. I have not used Voyager in years but I hear it is good as well. The problem though is that because the Amiga is the only modern computer without Netscape we are a laughing stock. We need the respect and stature that having Mozilla on our operating system will bring. It will help our browser market and user base grow.
Peter Gordon said; "These funds should also be made available for the first person/team to get a browser with GOOD support for DHTML, XHTML, CSS, and a current version of Flash! That way we are giving the IBrowse, AWeb and Voyager teams an incentive." Should Peter's plan be put into action or should these funds stay reserved for Mozilla only? Make your voice heard send an e-mail to amizillafund AT discreetfx.com"
And the bounty is now the incredible $8411.22!
Hi 2 years ago, I try to fund this project and ask AOL Time Warner /iPlanet to port commercial Netscape / Mozilla to AmigaOS or AmigaDE. Their official answer:
Amiga is ALREADY DEAD, LONG FORGOTTEN, NOBODY USE IT ANYMORE and it is impossible to port Netscape / Mozilla to AmigaOS, even if someone pay us to do it!
Perhaps they are afraid of the famous AmigaCurse: A C E G I K M O Q S ... Amiga - Commodore (Bankrupt) - Escom (Bankrupt) - Gateway (Financial difficulties) - Invisible Hands (Bankrupt) - Kouri Capital (Bankrupt) - Motorola IC (Financial difficulties & for sale) - O OCPA (some members) - Q Quantum Capital (George Soros / Kouri owner) - S Sendo (Financial difficulties) .. others??
I think porting to AmigaDE is better than AmigaOS, because the same program will run on top of Linux, Windows, WindowsCE, QNX, Psion etc. AmigaDE is also supported by 50 leading Electronic companies (OCPA). Even MICROSOFT resell AmigaDE / AmigaAnywhere games for PDAs based on PocketPC / WindowsCE. AmigaDE will be available on the future AmigaOS 4.2.
#17 Auction of Amiga Inc's asset.
Wednesday June 11th, 2003 8:14 AM
To show the present financial situation of Amiga Inc, the present owner of Amiga Intellectual Property right:
Inception Groups LLC (the owner of Amiga Inc's office building) is forced to auction several assets of Amiga Inc (furnitures, computers and networks), because Amiga Inc was unable to pay the rent. Amiga Inc was locked out of its office since last year. The auction will be held on June 14, 2003.
#18 Re: Auction of Amiga Inc's asset.
Wednesday June 11th, 2003 9:55 AM
Finished trolling ? M
#19 Re: Poor Financial planning and management
Wednesday June 11th, 2003 7:37 PM
>Trolling Who is trolling?
Amiga Inc should help the porting of Mozilla / Netscape / OpenOffice, at least they should develop an advanced, modern, up-to-date browser & office suite or pay Opera to port their browser to AmigaOS or AmigaDE (similar to BeOS). Perhaps they should pay Sun Microsystem to port their StarOffice product to AmigaOS / AmigaDE.
In the past, Amiga Inc put their priority on Espial's Escape browsers. The Espial owner is Invisible Hands, the same company that own Amiga Inc.
Unfortunately after Kouri Capital (the parent company of Invisible Hands) went bankrupt in May 2001, the plan went nowhere.
If Amiga Inc have a good Chief Financial Officer with a good, realistic plan in 2000, perhaps they can attract major investors and get something done, including porting mozilla and various compatibility tools (Qt, GNU, MKS, Bristol, GTK, X-Windows etc). AMIGA's CFO quit the company in September 2000.
They should use the advantage of AmigaDE / AA, instead they are trapped in a failed proprietary hardware projects. Perhaps they can do proprietary hardware later, but they should put priority on Amithlon / AmigaDE for X86 & AmigaDE for 68K first with extensive promotion to get revenue.
They should choose good business partners who can do the REAL job, and not stabbed them in the back (ie Escena, Haage & Partners, Bplan, Thendic etc).
You do realize that we are talking about an open-source initiative, Amizilla, launched by amiga and amiga compatible enthusiast programmers don't you ?
Personnally I don't give a damn about last century's Amiga history and obscure financial sides and conspiracies theories, and AmigaDE is probably a fine technology but is nowhere near completion and only share brand name with the current AmigaOS and AmigaOS compatible systems. In other words, the people trying to port Mozilla to AmigaOS/MorphOS/AROS are doing it because they want to, they don't care about your AmigaDE OS, they don't care about Amiga Inc, they don't care about what company X should have done or what product X they should do instead. They are doing it because they a/ want Mozilla for *their* OS b/ like the technical challenge c/ want to learn something d/want to participate to an open source project e/any other subjective and irrational reason inluding being found of big lizards.
As for your opinions states as facts: - Mozilla is impossible to port to Amiga -> early mozilla builds (in the M16 times) were already ported for AOS3.1 which proves that this is not impossible and other software packages were said to be impossible to port to Amiga, in the end they were ported and ran with much lower ressources.
- Nobody use it anymore -> Amiga OS is still visible on some web stat accesses on the web, more visible than BSD for instance (0.1% in germany last month for instance). And if nobody uses it, who are the people trying to port it now ? Ghosts ? There are dozens of companies making a living out of the amiga market and there are several professional productivity/design software only available for the amigaOS such as ImageFX.
- the only future is AmigaDE. -> sure, and I also wonder why there are windows versions of Mozilla when the obvious real good OS for the future is WindowsCE. Can you understand that the people trying to port Mozilla to AOS3/4 and Amiga-like OSes may not share your views about the future of the Amiga ?
>Your statement: Amiga is DEAD etc
Hello This is NOT my statement / views. This and similar statements are from AOL, ADOBE, ORACLE, BEA, SAP, LOTUS, AUTODESK, NVIDIA, HP.
All leading software companies laugh at ideas of commercial contracts for porting their software / hardware drivers to AmigaOS.
Other replies: "Are you CRAZY?" or "Please donate your money to charity / poor 3rd world countries" etc.
>AmigaDE / AA is the future. This is my personal opinion, but I agree that other people have their own opinions about the future of AMIGA.
Still, you fail to explain who are the ghost developpers currently coding amiga software and the ghost users buying or using this very software. The fact that big companies don't care about the amiga market doesn't mean that the amiga market doesn't exists, and it is the same for all alternative OSes. As long as there is still developement, a user base and developpers, a platform isn't dead.
#31 Re: Auction of Amiga Inc's asset.
Tuesday July 1st, 2003 5:55 AM
I think original poster intended to damage Amiga inc because he did not mention that AmigaInc IS NOT BANKCRUPT and they are not going to be bankruopt in the near future. They have financial problems, that's true. But they still continue the development.
And even if AmigaInc would die, it would not stop development of AmigaOS 4 or AmigaOne computers. The reason is that AmigaOS4 is developed by Hyperion Entertainment and Amigaone is a product of Eyetech. So situation of Amiga Inc does not damage AmigaOS4 or AmigaOne, because those are developed by independent companies.
There has been bloody and stupid war inside the Amiga community. Part of the people support Amiga Inc and part of the people support Genesi/bPlan who create unofficial Amiga and AmigaOS clones. There has been way too much attack on Amigainc from the fanatic MorphOS supporters during the last two years.
#32 Re: Re: Auction of Amiga Inc's asset.
Tuesday July 1st, 2003 6:08 AM
If I'm wrong with the original poster then I say I'm sorry. but i have to say that. Persobally I think both AmigaOS4+AmigaOne and MorphOS+Pegasos solutions are interesting and i would buy both if I would have enough money :) I just hope people woukld forget any wars inside the community, look forward and enjoy tjhose new computers together :)