MozillaZine

Full Article Attached Mozilla 1.4 Branching Scheduled for Tomorrow

Thursday May 22nd, 2003

In a newsgroup posting, Asa Dotzler has announced that the branch for Mozilla 1.4 will be cut tomorrow, barring any unforeseen problems. There will be at least one 1.4 release candidate.


#1 Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.1

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Friday May 23rd, 2003 5:41 AM

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Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.1:

<http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16489> - Password Protection of Profiles <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32157> - Title tips (tooltips) for cropped text <http://bugzilla.mozilla.o…show_bug.cgi?id=62429#c74> - Replying with the "start my reply above the quoted text" pref on should prepend the signature above the quote text. <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64647> - "Paste without Formatting" (plain text) on context menus and edit menu <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73562> - View -> Messages -> Watched Threads (ALL - not just the unread ones) <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91662> - Long strings in mail or news header cause scroll bars and attachment window to disappear, making message unreadable

Many of these already have patches, but were overlooked because of arrogance over user's wishes and excessive bugspam.

Other than those, Netscape 7.1 will be great. The new spam filtering will be the killer-feature for many new Netscape users. WOOT

#6 Re: Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.1

by WillyWonka

Friday May 23rd, 2003 8:40 AM

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I agree with some of your other ones but this one "Replying with the "start my reply above the quoted text" pref on should prepend the signature above the quote text." is not going in for a reason and it has been explained in the bug report.

Portions of replies totally dissapear when you do that.

#10 Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.1

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Friday May 23rd, 2003 10:04 AM

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> Portions of replies totally dissapear when you do that.

Not when the sig delimeter is changed for this special case.

#15 Re: Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.1

by WillyWonka

Friday May 23rd, 2003 10:44 AM

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But then you'd have to change all the sig delimeters in all of the email clients on the planet.

#7 Re: Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.1

by arpa

Friday May 23rd, 2003 8:41 AM

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> Replying with the "start my reply above the quoted text" pref on should prepend the signature above the quote text.

MS has already degenerated 99% of worlds email users with wrong behaviour when it made topposting the default for Outlook. It encourages people not to edit the emails they make and to leave sometimes hundreds of irrelevant lines of text in their messages. The "start my reply above quoted text" should be removed completely. Why topposting is bad: <http://www.xs4all.nl/~han…cuments/quotingguide.html>

#8 Re: Re: Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.

by vgendler

Friday May 23rd, 2003 9:24 AM

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Of course topposting is good, very good. If you reply below the original message then the receiver of the message must scroll down. Topposting completely eliminates redundant scrolling.

#9 offtopic about topposting

by arpa

Friday May 23rd, 2003 9:32 AM

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>Topposting completely eliminates redundant scrolling.

I can't see how it eliminates it? If I wan't to see what was the question I have to scroll down anyway.

Maybe I'm too close to a monkey but I prefer reading emails like this:

question answer

question answer

question answer

not like this

answer

answer

aswer

question

question

question

#14 Re: offtopic about topposting

by vgendler

Friday May 23rd, 2003 10:38 AM

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It is simple. If reply to your message is less than one page long(which is a very common answer and very often consists of one word "yes", "no", "agree", etc.) and, of course, you know your message then you see the answer right away without ANY scrolling. In all other cases you will have one scroll less versus to placing reply at the bottom.

#16 Ergo, lack of snipping is bad

by Sander

Friday May 23rd, 2003 11:33 AM

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Indeed, having to scroll just to read the response is annoying. Which doesn't mean that topposting is good; it just means that if you encounter such an instance, you need to teach someone to properly snip.

#17 Re: Ergo, lack of snipping is bad

by vgendler

Friday May 23rd, 2003 12:01 PM

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>>> Indeed, having to scroll just to read the response is annoying. Which doesn't mean that topposting is good OK, we can say like this: bottomposting is bad.

What is good in annoyance and wasting of time?

#22 Re: offtopic about topposting

by arpa

Friday May 23rd, 2003 3:30 PM

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>It is simple. If reply to your message is less than one page long(which is a very common >answer and very often consists of one word "yes", "no", "agree", etc.) and, of course, >you know your message then you see the answer right away without ANY scrolling. In all >other cases you will have one scroll less versus to placing reply at the bottom.

Thats why you delete the unnecessary part of the message. No need to scroll.

#19 Re: Re: Re: Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscap

by i5mast

Friday May 23rd, 2003 12:51 PM

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"If you reply below the original message then the receiver of the message must scroll down." well, you should always leave only the sentences you're replying to.

#11 Re: Re: Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.

by sgbouwhu

Friday May 23rd, 2003 10:11 AM

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Replying to normal mail is different from replying to newsgroups. When mailing someone about a topic, my memory is good enough to remember what my mail was about when reading their reply to it.

But then again, maybe I'm just a genius.

#24 Re: Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.1

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Saturday May 24th, 2003 12:19 AM

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> nor were they not fixed because of "arrogance."

With all due respect, I must, unfortunately, differ on this. IMO, this bug is a prime example of such arrogance (ok, perhaps lack of insight): Replying with the "start my reply above the quoted text" pref on should prepend the signature above the quote text. <http://bugzilla.mozilla.o…show_bug.cgi?id=62429#c74>

#25 i see a whole lot of arrogance on the other side

by joschi

Saturday May 24th, 2003 1:10 PM

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the arrogance i see in that thread is exhibited by a few of the people irate that their pet bug was WONTFIXED even though they never satisfactorily addressed the clearly stated reasons that it was marked so. on the mozilla side i see a whole lot of patience and patient discussion while they are getting flamed and having their creditbility called into quetion.

#12 Re: Features I will Sorely Miss in Netscape 7.1

by asa <asa@mozilla.org>

Friday May 23rd, 2003 10:12 AM

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"Many of these already have patches, but were overlooked because of arrogance over user's wishes and excessive bugspam."

Not one of them has a patch that's ready to land or even ready for review. They were neither "overlooked" nor were they not fixed because of "arrogance."

--Asa

#2 OT: 1 responses

by rwc

Friday May 23rd, 2003 7:38 AM

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Could someone take 500 milliseconds and add something like 'if ($numberofresponses != 1) { echo "s";}' to MozillaZine's article count script? It is after all the year 2003, not 1965, so I doubt the server needs another 1KB core memory bank to support this feature...(Other than that, MozillaZine is perfect :-)

#4 Re: OT: 1 responses

by trashcan

Friday May 23rd, 2003 8:10 AM

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I understand your point - but wouldn't you want to test for (numberofresponses > 1)? Otherwise you would get "0 responses". Sorry - I get marked off on stuff like that at school, I do realize what your point was.

#5 This isn't going to cause any confusion at all

by beastie

Friday May 23rd, 2003 8:36 AM

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Ummm, it should say "0 responses".

#18 whoops!

by beastie

Friday May 23rd, 2003 12:47 PM

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That's definitely the wrong subject for my last post. Damn auto-fill.

#3 Formal RCs?

by Mandrake <jarrad@sillydog.org>

Friday May 23rd, 2003 7:38 AM

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Do you suppose Mozilla 1.4 will have proper 1.4 RC 1, 1.4 RC 2 etc .. like Moz 1.0 RC1, RC2 and RC3?

#13 Re: Formal RCs?

by asa <asa@mozilla.org>

Friday May 23rd, 2003 10:13 AM

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from my post (quoted in this mozillaZine news item):

"Sometime soon after branching we plan to do a 1.4 release candidate to get some more broad testing of some of the larger changes we've taken since beta. We may do more release candidates if necessary."

--Asa

#20 *formal* RCs

by mlefevre

Friday May 23rd, 2003 1:14 PM

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not sure it's of huge significance, but I think the question was about whether the RCs would be "formal". that is, will the version number in the builds actually be changed to say "1.4rc1", with a set of builds in the /releases/ folder on ftp, and an announcement on mozilla.org (like with 1.0), or will it just be a item on mozillazine and the newsgroups that says "X nightly build is a release candidate, please get it and test it lots" (like with 1.3)?

#21 Formal. Yes. Probably. I think...

by Kommet

Friday May 23rd, 2003 1:59 PM

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It has been stated in the Mozilla Roadmap and in several other venues (too lazy to go cite examples ;-) ) that the 1.4 branch will be the new stable "base your stuff on this!" branch, replacing the 1.0.x branch.

It stands to reason that this branch will have 1 or more formal Release Candidate builds before the final release to ensure higher stability and security than the 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3 branches had. Those branches were more "stable milestones" than long-lived release branches as the 1.0 and 1.4 branches will be. I thought this had been said directly (formal RC build) by Asa, but nothing I found explicitly stated this. Maybe I should go read the Devel meeting minutes again or maybe I am crazy tard.

At any rate Netscape will be building the next version of their browser (7.1? 7.5? 8.0? Buffy!) off this branch, just as they did for Netscape 7.0.x with the Mozilla 1.0.x branch. Other companies are also being encouraged to use this branch for stable development work on Mozilla-based products. As such 1.4.x will be around for a while, actively getting security and other major bug fixes applied to it. Formal Release Candidate builds would just be the tip of that process, I guess.

#26 Formal RCs?

by Mandrake <jarrad@sillydog.org>

Sunday May 25th, 2003 4:34 AM

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Thanks Asa for the info :-) Moz 1.4 should be really stable then. Few lingering bugs in 1.2.1 and 1.3.1 that have been annoying, but this will be wicked :-D

#23 download manager still broken

by loec01

Friday May 23rd, 2003 3:58 PM

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would be great if the download manager works again, download is broken since a couple of days using the nightly builds. IMHO its an kind of important feature of an browser to download stuff.... some bug reports are already created.