Someone should host a list of known offenders with contacts. Then if you would like or do visit the site you know who to complain to.

I discovered the evangelism resources page and checked out the form letter. The first thing that jumped out at me is the fact that it is so pro-Mozilla instead of pro-standards. Remember the whole argument for there being no "Best viewed in Mozilla" button available? My experience with webmasters and such has been that the last thing they want to do is be told they have to add special support for some new browser... they just barely got to the point where they felt they could ditch the old NS4 stuff and just support the one IE "standard". Not only that, but the form letter seems to encourage those who wish to continue to use browser-sniffing code.

Every place where it says "...in Mozilla and other Gecko-based browsers..." it should really say "in standards-compliant browsers, such as Mozilla..."

Really, I feel that the advocacy needs to be more promoting the fact that authors can code to just ONE SINGLE spec still, but what that spec is needs to change from the IE spec to the W3C spec, at which point it will work in IE6 as well as non-IE browsers.

One reason web developers may not support modern browsers is having to replace a dhtml menu that works in NN4/IE4+ with one that does that, plus works in Mozilla, Opera etc. That was certainly my problem! imho the evangelism struggle should evaluate and promote a couple of freely available menus to lower this barrier.

(fwiw after drowning in poor versions I used the one at http://coolmenus.dhtmlcentral.com/)

Main point: I believe that the strong resemblance to official Communist propaganda in Mozilla's graphics is offensive to many people and an impediment to the evangelization of Mozilla.

Exposition:

Symbols mean different things to different people, and resemblance to a single symbol may be meaningless on its own. A star has no universal meaning. The significance of a particular color is subjective without a context.

There are certain symbols and images that *do* have a widespread common meaning even in isolation, such as a swastika, a fish drawn with two curved lines (ichthus), and a jolly, old, fat, white-bearded man wearing a certain red and white outfit. Some graphical elements help to *shape*, to some degree, what the total picture should convey: clenched fist (defiance), raised arm (allegiance), globe (worldwide), star (revolution, accomplishment). Color schemes can conjure associations if they fit with other symbols. Here are some examples true more often than not when used in propaganda: red/white/blue (USA), red/yellow/green (pan-African), red/yellow (Communist).

First, let's examine context. The elements of Mozilla's graphics have a *social* context, which we must take into consideration, because it is more fundamental than any graphical context. The social context I refer to is the Free Software movement, which began as Richard Stallman's campaign against the restrictions of commercial software. The word "free", as the philosophy is put into *practice*, essentially refers to freedom from capitalism. Its objective is not to eradicate capitalism per se, but the movement is very attractive to people who believe in communism, socialism, or subversive, anti-establishment, or anti-Western ideas. It is clearly seen as a way to kick Bill Gates, Steve Forbes http://forbes.com/, or Uncle Sam in the teeth. It's no coincidence that the People's Republic of China has its own distribution of GNU/Linux: Red Flag Linux. Linux is virtually synonomous with Free Software.

As you know, many people in online forums and newsgroups have been raising objections to Mozilla's Communist symbolism for a number of years. Mozilla was featured in an article called "Socialist art in IT marketing" http://boldra.com/features/socialist_art/ , which was picked up by Kuro5hin http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/17/64130/4272 .

A Stalinist fan of Mozilla http://mithgol.pp.ru/Mozilla/ has enhanced the Communist symbolism in Mozilla graphics. He has made some splash screens commemorating the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the former Evil Empire. Lest you need to be reminded, this is the empire that threatened Europe and North America for decades with its huge arsenals of weapons of mass nuclear destruction. (U.N. weapons inspectors were not necessary.) This comrade writes of Mozilla and his splash screen saying, "The splash is a sign of my true gratitude: notwithstanding that the great Leader [Stalin] is dead (and all his achievements are ruined in Russia), there is now a new browser which brings ideals of Freedom and Communism to the masses of wired people."

Now, let's move on to particular Mozilla graphics.

EXHIBIT A -- http://www.mozilla.org/party/1999/ The main graphic here has been used in all Mozilla party announcements since 1999. First, notice the red star. A red star usually symbolizes a revolution. Since Mozilla, you might say, is an open source revolution, the red star might seem appropriate. But what kind of revolution does a red star usually pertain to? Search Google, and you will see. Communist revolutions.

Some top Google results -- Red Red Star: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6059/links.htm, USU Special Collections: Red Star of Communism http://library.usu.edu/Specol/digitalexhibits/masaryk/redstar.html, Red Star: Platform for Communist Revolutionaries (publication of Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist) Red Flag) http://www.cpimlredflag.com/010403rs0.htm, The Red Star - a comic with this character http://www.archangel-studios.com/comics/redstar/makbust23.JPG Indeed, the red star appears on almost every USSR military hat and badge. http://www.russianlegacy.com/en/go_to/shopping/img/soviet_collection_03.htm

Given the anti-capitalist movement in which Mozilla exists, the symbolism is already risqué. There are Communist overtones, but no smoking gun yet. However, exhibit A doesn't have just any red star. Its star has a yellow border, just like the Soviet star. http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/su.html The Communist symbolism is all but certain at this point, but there is yet another clue: the glorified workers hailing the Red Star. They are wearing uniforms and most appear to have hard hats. They represent the proletariat in the class struggle. The message is like that of the Soviet banner here http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/5153/banner.htm which reads "Working people of all countries unite." Mozilla's dinosaur -- a tyrannosaurus rex, which is believed to be the most aggressive of dinosaurs -- is framed by the Red Star and fits well with the Reds' glorification of muscle, might, and physical prowess which is often depicted in Communist artwork (but not pictures *of* dinosaurs).

The five points on the Soviet red star represent the five fingers of the hand working together. It also represents the five known/recognized (in the 1910s) continents of the earth, meaning that Communism was meant to have representation and influence worldwide. It may be the intention of Mozilla to effect a worldwide "revolution", but Mozilla should avoid at all costs the appearance of, in *any* respect, whether in symbol or in substance, showing signs of sympathy, support, or desire to restore elements of regimes that have slaughtered over 100 million people and are still persecuting people to this day. Yes, the Red Star is still over Russia (the red star is rising again: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2515515.stm http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/01/27/wrus27.xml), China, North Korea, and Cuba.

EXHIBIT B -- http://www.mozilla.org/images/mozilla-banner.gif The Mozilla banner. Here you see twin smokestacks and the silhouette of big buildings. This symbolizes the zealous industrial ambitions that the Soviets had for their country. A rising Red Star is characterized by industrialism, military might, and technology. (That's how the USSR came to be a superpower comparable to the USA. Red China is following in USSR's footsteps.) It is the peasants and workers (like in Exhibit A) who often fall for the scheme of communism. Again, you see the Communist color motif in this graphic. It also includes stylistic features of Communist propagandist posters. See the boldra.com link above.

I could go on by explaining the symbolism of the red and yellow or by analyzing other Mozilla graphics, but hopefully this is sufficient for now.

The combination of the Communist red/yellow theme, the Soviet star, the industrial imagery, and the uniformed workers with raised fists or outstretched arms hailing the Red Dinosaur (which replaces the hammer and sickle, the symbol of their blood in united work), put into the social context of an anti-capitalist Free Software movement, all together help to paint an undeniably Communist picture within Mozilla.org.

I am *NOT* saying that Mozilla.org is a Communist organization. I am *NOT* claiming that a majority of Mozilla developers or fans is Communist. I *AM* claiming that there is definite Communist symbolism in Mozilla.org's graphics. I take this as evidence that there are at least a few Communist sympathizers (or worse) among Mozilla decision-makers.

My sole request is the removal of the Communist graphics.

At the very least, you should have a disclaimer like the one of a company called All Red Star. http://www.allredstar.com/ At the bottom of their site, they have this disclaimer: "Communism: Lousy Politics - Excellent Airplanes! All Red Star does not support the Communist Ideology, or the French Government, in any way. Thank you."

There is no room for the discussion of any perceived merits of communism. It is a philosophy that made the 20th century the bloodiest in human history. The horrors of Hitler's fascism are dwarfed by the horrors of Stalin et al's communism. Never forget! The blood of Communism's victims is still flowing across Asia as we speak. Communism in every real-world form is evil and deadly! You should avoid Communistic symbols like the plague! It is to be ABHORED and SCORNED and HATED forever more.

Don't point me to red stars of harmless products or associations. I've explained to you the *context* and the *collective association* of Mozilla's multiple symbols and images.

These images are extraordinarily offensive and even frightening. The Red Star is as repulsive and terrorizing to many people as a swastika is to Holocaust survivors and most of the world or a poster of Saddam Hussein is to formerly oppressed Iraqis.

They are damaging to Mozilla's image (no pun intended). It will repel many potential users rather than attracting them. Would a Jew use software applications with swastikas on the developers' web sites? How do you think African-Americans would feel if Exhibit A depicted men uniformed in white sheets with pointed head coverings and had raised fists and hands outstretched toward a burning cross? It would be intolerable. Why not extend your sensitivity to other oppressed groups?

PLEASE remove all of the Communist-inspired graphics from the Mozilla software suite and web site. Thank you for reading and considering my request.

P.S. However... *IF* Mozilla.org really is a Communist organization, then I think you should leave the images where they are. Make them bolder and more extreme. It is helpful that wolves remain in wolves' clothing. The world needs to know where evil lurks -- where the Red Star is rising.

The problem is that too many people use IE for webmasters to bother testing on other browsers. The reason why most people use IE is becuase it is pre-installed on their PC and they don't even know of any alternative. However, once you get used to using nice features like the tabbed interface it's very hard to go back to IE. Maybe some one should make an effort to get OEMs to pre-install Mozilla?

First I have only limited experience with web development. Is there a forum, mail list, or web site, etc. which many professional web developers regularly visit. If so, is there someone willing to write up a short document/tutorial lisiting several of the most common issues web site have which do not work with Mozilla/standards complient browsers. Then can suggestions be given to rework these issues so that the code will now work with Mozilla/Standards complient browsers.

If the article describing ways to rework your web site to work with Mozilla/Standards complient browsers can be written and posted at a site frequented by web developers maybe some will see that it is not all that hard to make their site work beyond IE and begin reworking their site.

Another suggestion, although not specifically an evengelism solution is for Mozilla to work at improving Composer. Composer may never compete with Dreamweaver, but it is possible for Composer to be a serious contender to FrontPage. If Composer improves significantly, more pages will be produced which are complient. I hope Composer will be marketed to semi-professional web developers as a WYSISWYG development tool which produces standards complient code which will display in any standards complient browser. Let them know about the Mozilla Dom Inspector, Javascript debugger, and Javascript Console. Get people using tools which help them insure their code works in Mozilla?standards browsers. Composer still requires more work. I feel that working to improve composer may do as much as all the evangelism. Our goal can be to get as many developers to write good code which works in all (or most) browsers. There will always be a need for evangelism :/( . I hope within a year Composer will be at a point its development were it can be strongly marketed as a better alternative to FrontPage. If Mozilla lets Composer lanquish (marketing wise), FrontPage may remain without any competition in its category and this would be a shame.

Composer is an issue for evangelism. If there is a viable alternative/competitor to FrontPage the number of sites requiring evangelism should drop. You may say Dreamweaver already competes with FrontPage. It does, but not really. DreamWeaver is not free and the last I heard it does not always produce complient code.

I am more than just Stalinist - I am Communist, that's why I am Mozilla fan (see "Mozilla is Communism" letter above). I was born in USSR - the counry you just called Evil Empire. Lest you need to be reminded, that empire was in turn threatened by United States with your own huge arsenals of weapons of mass nuclear destruction (it was USA where idea of mass nuclear destruction was first planned, and necessary weapons invented and built; now USSR is gone, and some old plans may come into living, I heard some rumours about plans which involved using nuclear weapons in Iraq war...) Yes, I am from Evil Empire, you may call me Sith as well (Darth Mithgol), but you Americans just gave supreme power to you own variation of Palpatine.

Anyway, I'm not going to continue this offtopic thread unless being asked. Two letters seem to be enough to make my point of view clear. The "superyooser" example of States' strong anti-Communist brainwashing made me reconsider becoming a member of the Communist Party of Russian Federation myself. Thought I am not a member yet - I'll vote for them on next elections, I promise.