Mozilla Branding Strategy Clarifies Naming of Mozilla Projects and Products
Friday April 25th, 2003
FrodoB writes: "Christopher Blizzard has published to mozilla.org an article entitled Mozilla Branding Strategy, which clarifies the position of mozilla.org on naming of the application suite and the separate applications in milestone 1.4 and beyond. Essentially, the application suite is to be called 'Mozilla Application Suite' with individual names 'Mozilla Navigator', 'Mozilla Mail/News', and so on. The Mozilla Firebird and Mozilla Thunderbird names are simply codenames, and the resulting products will be referred to as 'Mozilla Browser' and 'Mozilla Mail'."
Wish this out when the (re)naming of Firebird was announced. It could have limited the flame wars and trolls.
It was being finalized at the time, but people were really not expecting quite so much backlash against the codename...
If Firebird is just a code name, then why is it necessary for it to be Firebird(TM) all over the place, including in the useragent string? It seems like a code name that is intended to be dropped eventually would not need a trademark at all.
Chris, thanks for writing that. Now maybe we can all get on with life (right after the Mozilla Firebird brand strings are changed yet again, to read "Mozilla Browser" this time).
and all those TMs... good to see them gone soon, too!
#10 Re: Finally! MozBrowser, MozMail
Friday April 25th, 2003 3:50 PM
It finally clear all the confusion
the other components (IRC client, Composer, Calendar, Address Book, etc...)
I was really looking forward to using Moz as my Outlook replacement. According to the roadmap, these components were not being droped, only were not part of the initial migration. Hopefully they will still be maintained.
I'm very happy that mozilla staff tries to put an end to the end-less firebird name debate. And after all, "Mozilla Browser" isn't *that* bad, after all -- unless someone (be it open source or commercial) claims copyright on the word "Browser" :-)
Having Mozilla in the name will help "Phoenix" to get more end-user attention than it currently has, and is quite adequate for the fact that MozillaBrowser will (at least in mass market) replace the AppSuite.
This is exactly what I was hoping for, and I agree that it is very wise. Forget all these trendy names and just call it what it is.
Now there's no excuse for the Firebird Database ppl to continue whinging about it!
#12 That's a reasonable compromise
Friday April 25th, 2003 4:06 PM
In the long run, using Firebird and Thunderbird (as code-names) will only confuse users and is bad for marketing, but at least we won't be stuck with them forever.
#35 Confusing users? Bad for marketing?
by neva <email@example.com>
Saturday April 26th, 2003 9:17 AM
A number of people *have*, I suppose, been spotted attempting to purchase Debian instead of the Toy Story DVD they were originally intending. And a collection of pandas is currently picketing the use of 'Bamboo' as the codename for Mandrake 9.1, as it might produce confusion in other pandas searching for food, and cause mass starvation. Because, of course, codenames have such destructive potential!
There does come a point when reason might want to start influencing your thoughts a *little* bit. Honestly.
I think the forums names should be changed now. I like Mozilla Navigator much better than Firebird for example and I believe everything went too quickly with these new names.
#14 But it's *not* "Mozilla Navigator"
Friday April 25th, 2003 4:28 PM
It's "Mozilla Browser" (read above)
#18 Re: But it's *not* Mozilla Navigator
Friday April 25th, 2003 5:08 PM
I guess people are still stuck by the old name, 'Netscape Navigator' and didn't bother to think about the 'Navigator' words.... Come on, hte word, 'Naviagor' have been dead for quite some time, do you expect us to continue to use the old 640K RAM PC and 5.25 '' floppy drive??? I think it's time to cut the umbilical cord..... No quesiton about and no 'but, but, but....'....
But it's still the 1.4 release cycle, so they're still known as Firebird and Thunderbird. It's only after the 1.4 release that they will be referred to as Mozilla Browser and Mozilla Mail.
Codename is not the same as product name. I would like to see the product in its correct name asap.
#30 Re: Codename <> product name
Saturday April 26th, 2003 5:42 AM
erickleung said : >Codename is not the same as product name. I would like to see the product in its correct name asap.<
Indeed ! Nobody talks about Woody or Potato, it's Debian, fullstop. It's the same on another level. People talked about Phoenix 0.4 ans Phoenix 0.5, not Oceano and Naples.
BUT "Mozilla Firebird" is /also/ a standalone application, and its name will remain. the remaning only concerns Mozilla's modules, which will bear the NetscapeNavigator history.
#36 what clarification are you reading?
Saturday April 26th, 2003 9:49 AM
Quote: Use the names "Mozilla Browser" and "Mozilla Mail" to describe the Firebird and Thunderbird projects after the 1.4 release. Also, this branding should be found throughout the projects if possible instead of referring to the Firebird and Thunderbird names directly. Project names are transitory.
#38 How the MZ Forums should be named, then?
Saturday April 26th, 2003 1:10 PM
What do you think? After the recent document on Branding Strategy, perhaps there will be a small problem to find good names for the MozillaZine Forums, preventing any confusion between old and new Mozilla.
Of course MZ will decide, this is not a poll, just another un-scientific exchange of possible suggestions and opinions about what the people would like and will be comfortable with, to finish this naming polemic.
I'm just one of many users, but the first very simple idea that comes to mind is to list the application names, according to the branding strategy:
Should the current codenames (SeaMonkey, Mozilla Firebird, Mozilla Thunderbird) be displayed prominently or not? Would this create or avoid confusion? I'm not sure about the best way for this.
Perhaps (but this may still bring unnecessary trouble):
Mozilla Suite (Mozilla SeaMonkey)
Mozilla Browser (Mozilla Firebird)
Mozilla Mail (Mozilla Thunderbird)
Another possibility -to avoid any confusion- has been suggested by the goodwill mediator between Firebird (the database) and Mozilla, Jonathan Walther <http://www.ibphoenix.com/…x&page=ibp_mozilla_jw> : "Mozilla Next Generation" or "MozillaNG" on the webpages instead of the codenames, in order to differentiate the new apps during these transition months. He says: "This solution has worked well for several other Free Software projects in the past."
This possibility -without codenames- might be the following:
Mozilla Suite (Navigator, Mail/News, ChatZilla, Composer, Address Book)
Mozilla Browser (Next Generation)
Mozilla Mail (Next Generation)
Any thoughts? Other ideas? :-)
#16 Probably they will accept it
Friday April 25th, 2003 4:42 PM
According to ibphoenix.com (one of the websites of Firebird, the former Borland's, now open source database), a Mozilla developer talked recently of this branding roadmap, that is of Firebird as an internal project codename and not the final browser name, to the neutral third party mediator in the dispute, Jonathan Walther (a developer of Debian, the free GNU/Linux-related operating system). Later, he wrote to the Mozilla staff considering it a fair solution. <http://www.ibphoenix.com/…x&page=ibp_mozilla_jw>
So, it isn't confirmed yet, maybe there is still any small detail, who knows, but it looks like Firebird (the database) probably will accept it. In any case, thank you very much to Jonathan for his goodwill mission. :-)
I've just seen MozillaZine has added more links about this in the news item "Further Updates on Firebird Naming Debate". :-)
#20 Re: More links in MozillaZine
Friday April 25th, 2003 6:01 PM
"I've just seen MozillaZine has added more links about this in the news item 'Further Updates on Firebird Naming Debate'. :-)"
Was it that obvious? :-)
#17 nice "clarification"
by ph1nn <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Friday April 25th, 2003 4:44 PM
Sounds like they realized the name changing was stupid if you ask me ;-)
Much relief tho
Umm.... this was the plan for the names all along. Since Asa's initial announcement did not make it clear, a clarification had to be issued. Note all the "it's a codename" posts that happened previously....
Sorry, but firebird and thunderbird are pretty cheesy, so good to hear. Most know the Mozilla name, and it is good and memorable. "Mozilla Browser" is good, simple, and each unit of the suite reinforces the suite name.
"What do you use for email [surfing/whatever]?" "Mozilla." -Perfect.
I prefer the "Mozilla" name over "Phoenix", "Firebird" or "Thunderbird". Many people know already what Mozilla is and where to find it. I also spend too many time evangelizing about the Mozilla name, so is better to stay with it ;-) I'm glad to see this streategy, kudos!
"Mozilla Browser" name will help to greatly decrease the confusion (not to eliminate it, because the name "Firebird" will not disappear, but ...)
Our sincere CONGRATULATIONS, Mozilla team. This act has talked nice about you.
#29 Why the whole trademark issue?
by erik <email@example.com>
Saturday April 26th, 2003 4:00 AM
Now that Mozilla.org clairifies that Firebird and Thunderbird are just project names I wonder why there was a reason to change the names from Phoenix and Minotaur to Firebird(tm) and Thunderbird(tm). I cannot believe that there is a need to have a trademarked name as a project name.
Would it not have made more sense to have kept the original names and clearly state that they are just project names. Maybe this whole thing was a marketing scam from AOL?
#32 Re: Why the whole trademark issue?
Saturday April 26th, 2003 6:25 AM
In order for a new version of Phoenix to be released, it had to be given a name that did not legally infringe on another product. Firebird really still is the name of the product. That has not changed with the clarification.
Do I really have to go around clarifying the clarification? Wasn't it clear enough the first time around???
Netscape Navigator Mozilla Navigator
This is clear. We are the Netscape open-source product; they fund us, we do their work, they do support and yadda yadda yadda. I don't really know how the relationship works, but whatever. Most people call this "Mozilla." I don't *care* what Mozilla want people to call it, and what they publish it as. It's Mozilla, and it means the whole thing. Moving forward:
Sorry, "Mozilla Browser" is horrible, because they are not distinctly different from their "Mozilla" counterparts. This is because everyone knows what a Browser is. You say "Mozilla Browser", people are going to think Navigator! If you're going to offer a standalone app outside of Mozilla, it can't be called something so general. For these standalone apps you should call them something else, and I don't see the problem with "Mozilla Firebird" for this.
The only way this works is if you only use this for internal representation, and the standalone products stop existing. Fore example, people outside Mozilla don't know what Seamonkey is. Unfortunately I think this is too late. Firebird is a large project, with a large following.
The same thing applies for "Netscape Messenger", "Mozilla Messenger", "Mozilla Mail", and "Mozilla Thunderbird."
Overall a bad call, IMO. We'll just wait and see.
#34 Entertaining; take this soap opera to syndication.
Saturday April 26th, 2003 8:08 AM
In a knock-down, drag-out, 12-round decision, lizard stomps overheated bird for the world title! See it on pay-per-view. Thrill to semi-compelling testimony from the obsessively partisan. Experience the "shock and awe" factor of those whose comments and conduct leave the idea of good taste but a tattered, soiled remnant.
At the very least we should be able to get it on "Jerry Springer".
This definitally clears things up. What I don't understand is the Flame War that began with this name change. In MANY posts it was stated that it would be called Mozilla Firbird, during the transition period, but the "Anti-Firebird-renaming" and "FireBird Database" people just didn't get it.
The whole "people are going to call in just "FireBird" argument sucks. Why? Because they come here to Mozillazine, and see 'FireBird' mentioned, and go all hay-wired. Like the developers have sayed, it is the new "code name".
So when I discuss Mozilla projects in a MOZILLA forum with other people who are here to discuss MOZILLA, I WILL USE THE CODENAME to clearyly specify what I am talking about. What people don't realize is the general public will still refer to it as Mozilla, or Mozilla "browser".
Personally I think in the general population we will be getting only two names. The browser will be called just "Mozilla" while the mail client will be called Mozilla Mail.
he'll that what most people do now anyway right? Any conference I have been to, or third party website refers to it like this. again, no confussion.
I'm just glad this mess is officially over!
#40 "Why You Should Switch to the Firebirdô Browser"
Sunday April 27th, 2003 8:10 AM
Some people has spotted above mentioned title in URL: (<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/phoenix/why/>). A trademark in project code name 'Firebird' is very misleading. If Firebird is just an internal project codename which is never shown on final product, it is not necessary to be trade-marked. Therefore, mozilla.org needs some kind of clarification and clear any confusion remains.
#41 Re: How the MZ Forums should be named, then?
Monday April 28th, 2003 3:12 AM
>Perhaps (but this may still bring unnecessary trouble): > >Mozilla Suite (Mozilla SeaMonkey) > >Mozilla Browser (Mozilla Firebird) > >Mozilla Mail (Mozilla Thunderbird)
There's bound to be some confusion whatever way that it gets done (I mean, people post MZ Firebird questions in the Suite forums as it is), but the above would be get my vote