MozillaZine

Minotaur Builds Available for Linux and Mac OS X

Friday April 4th, 2003

joe wrote in to tell us that Minotaur builds are now available for Linux and Mac OS X.


#1 Date Format of Filename is non-standard

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Saturday April 5th, 2003 3:10 AM

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Please choose a date format that makes sense (this EXCLUDES the US way, BTW). The current filename is not clear as to which date the build is (minotaur-win32-03-20-03.zip). I suggest yyy-mm-dd

#2 Re: Date Format of Filename is non-standard

by Yama

Saturday April 5th, 2003 4:43 AM

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I agree. The ISO format, which is used by every open source developer I've ever seen, is YYYY-MM-DD. Not only does this make sense (the US format is just retarded if you ask me), it also aids alphanumeric sorting. If you have a bunch of files with ISO dates in their names, and you want to sort by these dates, you can set your file viewer to sort alphabetically by name. Your files will be sorted in perfect chronological order.

#3 i agree - and in the app too, please

by johann_p

Saturday April 5th, 2003 5:20 AM

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the mail news app also does not display the date in iso format. There should be an option to make it display dates in a reasonable format

#4 ISO International Standard Date and Time Notation

by JuanGonzalez

Saturday April 5th, 2003 9:50 AM

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The international standard is:

ISO 8601 - Representation of dates and times

For example, today (April 5th, 2003) is 2003-04-05. That is to say the international standard date notation is YYYY-MM-DD.

Info at:

ISO: Numeric representation of Dates and Time <http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/…popstds/datesandtime.html> A Summary of the International Standard Date and Time Notation <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-time.html> World Wide Web Consortium: Date and Time Formats <http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime> Open Directory: ISO 8601 <http://dmoz.org/Science/R…idual_Standards/ISO_8601/> Etc...

#6 Re: i agree - and in the app too, please

by Malc

Saturday April 5th, 2003 10:20 AM

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If you're referring to a runtime option, shouldn't it be determining the format from your system settings? L10n, and all that.

#12 no

by johann_p

Saturday April 5th, 2003 11:42 AM

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I am using US english linux but still want the ISO date. This should either be ISO for all ( isn't Mozilla about standards?) or a preference

#13 Re: no

by bzbarsky

Saturday April 5th, 2003 12:39 PM

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Perhaps you should simply set your LC_DATE settings appropriately so ALL programs that properly localize dates will behave the way you want? Or do you want every single program (including things like ls and whatnot) to have a little pref for this.

Use the system setup you have available, dammit.

#15 my mistake

by johann_p

Saturday April 5th, 2003 4:00 PM

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sorry, my mistake - I did not know of this possibility. The name of the setting is LC_TIME, however. Now the question is: what value to assign to get English names but ISO formatted dates and times?

#25 Use en_dk for English names, ISO

by DPJ <davidpjames@yahoo.com>

Monday April 7th, 2003 5:58 PM

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In Linux the only locale setting to offer English names with the ISO date and time format is the "joke" locale of en_dk (that's right - English:Denmark). At any rate just set LC_TIME to en_dk, make sure the locale has been generated and Mozilla/Minotaur should take the settings from there (it does for me).

#27 Re: en_DK

by james

Tuesday April 8th, 2003 1:48 AM

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en_DK is not a joke locale. There are a lot of English speakers in Denmark (as a second language). What locale would you suggest they use when they want their apps to display in English?

#30 Re: en_DK

by DPJ <davidpjames@yahoo.com>

Tuesday April 8th, 2003 11:07 AM

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en_dk was created as a bit of a joke... <http://www.debian.org/doc…tune.en.html#s-ISO-locale> ...which is not to say that it is not useful. I think it has since been submitted as a standard.

Few (if any) other non-anglophone countries have an en_xx locale in Linux, so in that respect the Danish are fortunate to have such a locale available to them. What non-Danes and residents of non-anglophone countries would use if they wanted English I do not know. What is needed is an international English locale packed with as many international conventions as possible in it.

#28 thank you! but ...

by johann_p

Tuesday April 8th, 2003 4:18 AM

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Thanks, what a nice coincidence to have english-speaking danish people :) But this of course shows how broken this way of defining things is - the date format and date language should be seperate things of course. Even in a small country like austria, there are many ways how to display a date in use and the requirement to mix language and format freely should be legitimate. With this way of defining things one is obviously out of luck if there is not by coincidence the combination you need. Windows obviously does it much better here, by clearly seperating these issues. Who is to blame for the silly way of doing this under linux then?

#29 Re: thank you! but ...

by bzbarsky

Tuesday April 8th, 2003 10:06 AM

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The POSIX standard authors?

#20 how can I set an english ISO display then?

by johann_p

Monday April 7th, 2003 5:41 AM

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Is there a way to stay with english text and make Mozilla show ISO dates then? What value for LC_TIME would I need to set? Any help would be apreciated.

#23 Re: how can I set an english ISO display then?

by JuanGonzalez

Monday April 7th, 2003 2:41 PM

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Also a similar difficulty here, for Windows 98. After changing the short date format of the Windows system to the ISO date standard, other programs listen to it, but Mozilla 1.3 doesn't. There are of course many options in the about:config page of the browser, like intl.content.langcode (en-US), but I cannot find an option for date format, not in the prefs.js file either.

Well, maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. Anyway, this point about dates is not a big priority for me, really, although it would be nice to have the international standard, naturally. :)

#24 Date setting works sometimes

by JuanGonzalez

Monday April 7th, 2003 3:25 PM

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I've just found that the change of date setting works in the case of both the Windows system and Mozilla using "en-US" (intl.content.langcode option in about:config page and prefs.js file). It does not seem to work for Spanish settings like es-ES, as well set in both Windows system and Mozilla.

Maybe I'm doing some mistake, but anyhow I think this date detail is not too important, although perhaps other international testers will think differently, I don't know. :) I've tested it with Mozilla 1.3 (US English version), given that Minotaur is being based on it.

#5 good start!

by wtmcgee

Saturday April 5th, 2003 9:51 AM

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looks good, basically just mail/news w/o navigator.... i think this could be a serious challenger to outlook express on windows, and the mail.app on mac OS X.

#7 Re: good start!

by JuanGonzalez

Saturday April 5th, 2003 10:24 AM

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Yes, I moved to Mozilla from using Opera and Eudora, mainly because of Mozilla Mail/News. For example, Mozilla is standard and good for Asian languages, something that we need. IMHO, currently Mozilla Mail/News only lacks optional deletion of attachments (bug 2920) and some improvements for importing mail and for prefs.js file safety, to be a nearly perfect mail client. :-)

#10 Re: Re: good start!

by wtmcgee

Saturday April 5th, 2003 10:46 AM

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i use OS X, so i as long as i can use the pinstripe theme with it, it will be a very nice alternative to mail.app.

#16 Re: Re: Re: good start!

by Kevin <kgerich@mac.com>

Saturday April 5th, 2003 9:38 PM

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The Pinstripe theme is not compatible with Minotaur yet. I'm working on Phoenix and Minotaur support.

#19 Re: good start!

by wtmcgee

Sunday April 6th, 2003 9:08 AM

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yea, i saw the newest build of phoenix today on macupdate. looks great :) keep up all your great work!

#11 Re: Re: good start!

by wtmcgee

Saturday April 5th, 2003 10:47 AM

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i use OS X, so i as long as i can use the pinstripe theme with it, it will be a very nice alternative to mail.app.

#8 Re: good start!

by JuanGonzalez

Saturday April 5th, 2003 10:27 AM

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Yes, I moved to Mozilla from using Opera and Eudora, mainly because of Mozilla Mail/News. For example, Mozilla is standard and good for Asian languages, something that we need. IMHO, currently Mozilla Mail/News only lacks optional deletion of attachments (bug 2920) and some improvements for importing mail and for prefs.js file safety, to be a nearly perfect mail client. :-)

#9 Sorry, post repeated by reloading web page

by JuanGonzalez

Saturday April 5th, 2003 10:37 AM

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Sorry, I've just learned that if one clicks the reload page button for the resulting web page (with messages) of the post form, the post is repeated, even if one clicks "cancel" to the warning about resending form data (using version 1.3). My apologies. :-(

#18 Re: good start!

by koyeung

Sunday April 6th, 2003 6:45 AM

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Would there be extension framework and extensions for various web mail? It may be possible for client-side spam control integrated with service side spam reporting service.

#14 wow!

by mozuser

Saturday April 5th, 2003 2:23 PM

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this is great! Anyone know whether it is safe enough for everyday use? I know it's pre-alpha, but it seems to work fine.

#17 Re: wow!

by djst

Sunday April 6th, 2003 3:40 AM

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I'm using it as my default mail client already. Crashes a few times, but so did Mozilla...

#26 Re: Re: wow!

by wtmcgee

Monday April 7th, 2003 10:43 PM

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i'd say so, considering it is based off of a fairly mature mail/news client from mozilla.

yes, this is at the .1 release, but it's almost the same thing from moz 1.3 right now.

#21 Good Start, but more work needed

by jstrickland

Monday April 7th, 2003 1:48 PM

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Minotaur is a good start. However, is minotaur based on 1.3 or 1.4? I am asking because the junk mail filter crash in 1.3 is also in this build of Minotaur.

#22 Re: Good Start, but more work needed

by JuanGonzalez

Monday April 7th, 2003 2:08 PM

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Apparently, Minotaur 0.1 is going to be based on Mozilla 1.3, according to the Minotaur site: <http://www.mozilla.org/mailnews/minotaur/>