Well, personally, I don't think that ads will help at all. If MozillaZine adds banners, I'll be dissapointed for sure, but then I'll just block the advertisements from their originating server. (Thanks to Image->Context Menu->Block Images from this Server).

I don't know about you, but I'm going to donate to MozillaZine! Who's with me? No sé de Uds., pero ¡voy a donar a MozillaZine! ¿Quienes están conmigo?

no text

Sorry but what the hell is wrong with banner ads? They are relatively unobtrusive, have little effect on the loading time of the page and would bring MozillaZine a little bit of money.

I hope that the freeloaders that block banners donate to every single site that they use, or come up with some other way for sites to cover their costs.

Would you rather have no television or television with adverts? Sheesh.

"If you want people to donate, justify the reasons! Some people would only donate if they knew what their money would be used for."

Read the article. Hosting fees and the like (the Kerz's hot tub thing is a joke).

Alex

Not as far as I know, we don't have any special status as a non-profit orginization or anything.

jason

I agree, I don't have a Paypal account and I'll never get one either - I simply don't trust them.

I second that! Right now, I'm opening a new tab for each thread. Lots of bandwith could be saved if all the content could be on one page, orderly and nested. Why doesn't MZ use something like Slash code: http://slashcode.com/ ? If posters could preview their comments, they wouldn't have to repost them with corrections (mainly for botched links and lack of line breaks).

There are lots of ways that MozillaZine could conserve bandwith. (1) Allow nested comment display (as mentioned above). (2) Detect Gecko-based and IE5+ user agents, and serve up a CSS-formatted page instead of using all those font tags. (3) Fix the issue that results in multiple posts of the same comment. (4) Use b (bold) tags instead of strong tags. They are rendered exactly the same. It's only a few bytes saved here and there, but being downloaded 7 million times a month, it can make a difference. (5) Implement a system like Slashdot that defines all those features on the sidebar (MZ links, Google search, mozilla.org links, poll, older news) as slashboxes, which logged-in members can choose to turn off. (6) Advertisements. Why not? It wouldn't bother me a bit, as long as they're not wildly flashing psychadelic colors like those x10 camera ads. I click on ThinkGeek ads sometimes. They have lots of cool stuff.

Over a year ago they asked for donations to keep the site alive and people were willing to do it because they don't want to see ads. They even stripped down the site for a bit to reduce bandwidth while they raised enough money. It works just fine this way and they raised enough money so that they were able to implement an even better forum section then they had before. If they don't get enough money they'll shut down and we'll go elsewhere. I for one would rather not see ads on this site.

"If you need money you really should place some ads. Asking people for money or setting up store items to make profit never works."

It's worked before and, judging by the donations so far, it'll work again. Anyway, the purpose isn't to make a profit, it's to cover expenses.

"It'll be sad to see you go."

Well, we're not planning to. :-)

"This is the first sign of serious trouble."

You obviously weren't here in late 2001: http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=2104 http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=2111 http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=2114 http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=2115

The situation was much more serious then. Right now, it's not so bad. It's also been far more widely anticipated. And the most recent hosting bill has actually been paid; it's just that the money came from Jason Kersey's back pocket. Even if no-one donated, the site would still be good for another year.

"I've been wanting to donate to several sites but I lost my job and have no money."

No-one expects you to donate if you can't afford it. No-one expects you to donate even if you can afford it. Donations are entirely optional. No-one should feel forced to contribute.

"There's no point to donations at this point."

MozillaZine's PayPal balance suggests otherwise. :-)

"Right now I don't give money because it's the wrong situation to do it in. What if I give $50 and you shut the site down in 3 months? It's too risky an investment in that context."

So don't donate. No-one's going to hold it against you.

"So here's your options.

"A. Hope u get enough through paypal only constantly for like what? 5 years?"

That would appear to be working so far.

"B. Put properly targeted ads on the site that would interest members. OMG! Do a Shacknews thing and ask people to fill out a anonymous profile! Ad companies love those thingies :)"

MozillaZine has run ads in the past. They also always seemed to be those 'Punch the f*cking monkey' ones. People would probably just block them anyway.

"C. Strip the site of all bandwidth things like forums, polls.... etc."

But then it wouldn't be as good.

"D. Merge with another website. Hint, Mozilla.org has a lot your news items on it anyway. Just ask them if they'd like more news events on the site plus user feedback. I've always thought of this site as an extendtion of Mozilla.org anyway :)"

mozilla.org is the official site of, er, mozilla.org. Merging with them wouldn't really be an option because MozillaZine would lose its independence.

"E. Close the site"

That really would be the last resort.

"I've seen too many sites ask for donations. Subscription base the forums or something. Do that first before asking for donations. Usually that should be a last resort."

I think donations are preferable to subscriptions. Subscriptions force people to pay if they want to use the site. Donations keep it free and accessible to everyone. And for some reason (stupidity, naivity, or maybe even generousity) they work! Sure, maybe subscriptions looks like a "viable and forward-thinking business model" whereas donations looks like desperation. But we don't care. We have no shame. :-)

Alex

NXPrime wrote:

> Why do we have 2 bookmark editing areas? One on the sidebar and bookmark manager. Dude. Pick one and stick with it. I'd love to see EVERYTHING tossed into the sidebar.

Ok, so you would like to see that stuff in the sidebar. Not all of us agree. I hate the sidebar; the first thing I did when I first tried NS6 was X that thing out of there, and the same is true of Mozilla. I have never used it and I never will. If there was not another way to edit the bookmarks other than the sidebar, I would have to open bookmarks.html in composer to edit it... not what I could call ideal. There are two ways to do it because some people like the sidebar and some do not. It makes sense. It is redundant, but versatility requires redundancy sometimes.

As for ads-- yes, if they were put on here, we would all block them, given that most, if not all, of us that read this site use Mozilla or one of its derivatives. Would that mean that you would not get paid for the ads? I have no idea how that works. I've been approached by people that claim to want to put ads on my site, but I never replied...

Frank

I really like Mozilla and part of the reason is choice! I really don't like the sidebar and never ever use it. Making that the only place bookmarks are available would drive me to another browser. Sounds like getting rid of the sidebar would drive you to another browser.

I'm also perfectly OK with the current preferences dialog. I see all of the names just fine, but dialogs (unless they're resizable which is highly desireable but a pain to implement) are always a problem with Text size. They are supposed to resize based on the font size they use, but that doesn't always work.

Lastly, I don't use MozillaZine that often, but I'd consider contributing a small amount (I like that option way better than a subscription option) but I won't use PayPal.

Just out of curiosity, why is it not an option? Do they not accept credit cards from foreign countries, or do you not have one? I'm merely curious, nothing more.

You could always send a fist full of rubles. ;)

1) Ads suck.

2) Ads don't provide much money at all. Especially if people block them using handy-dandy mozilla technology.

3) I personally like how speedy and reliable Mozillazine became after I stopped ads on the site.

I'm no longer maintaining MZ in any capacity, however, so I can't speak for Jason and Alex. Just my opinion.

CafePress is pretty bad in terms of margins. While they certainly deserve the lion's share of any sale, since they are doing all the work, a base price of $14 for a T-Shirt just won't cut it. Plus their quality isn't *that* great. We've had some experience with them for fund raising and it turned out to be a losing proposition. I also know someone who has ordered 100 mugs for his event for resale. Their base price on the mug was so steep that the market wouldn't carry it and he ended up promoting his event, but losing quite a bit of his *mug investment*.

"If you don't mind telling, what kind of margins do you guys make on the cafepress stuff?"

Here's CafePress.com's list of base prices: http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/pricing.aspx

MozillaZine Store Price - Base Price = MozillaZine's Profit

Alex

Amazon.com has one...

"Can you give us an idea of the amount of trafiic (in Gigabytes) that this site has ?"

About 30GB a month.

"And how big a machine is it placed on ?"

It's probably a few feet by a few feet.

Alex

"loop once"

Edit->Prefrences->Privacy & Security->Images->Animated images should loop->Once

I'm going to assume you had the comma in the wrong place, and meant 5,000 (hey, I live in the US, I'm allowed to do such things). If so, I can guarantee Alex will keep posting, and I'll enjoy putting a down payment on a new car!

jason

"I'll pay $50,00 if Alex Bishop (whom I will never call Blake again) guarantees that he will keep posting his 'sense of humour'... "

Are you mocking my finely-honed wit?

Unlike Kerz, I'm going to assume you had the comma in the wrong place, and meant 50,000 (hey, I live in the UK, I'm allowed to do such things). If so, I can guarantee I will keep posting, and I'll enjoy moving into my new beach house in Rio!

Alex

He probably meant $50.00 . In most European countries, the function of period and comma is the reverse of what US residents are used to. So, for example, in Euro-speak, our competent and respected president earns 400.000,00 dollars a year.

My guess is that using a service like MarketBanker, M-zine could generate sufficient cash flow.

I think people actually like seeing people compensated for their quality service and liklihood of sticking around.

Maybe I could clarify here, since I was one of the proponents to use advertisement.

By using advertisement,

I meant for mozillaZine to carry ads that they are able to vet, and hopefully _not_ via an agent(like doubleclick). Think selective.

I meant for ads that an advertiser would like mozillaZine to carry specifically. Think targetted.

It may or may not be a viable _single_ funding model, but it could be one of the income source, besides donation. Think composition.

For example, there could be ads to recognise those people that have made a donation. Think rewards.

Tasteful ads well placed can be non intrusive and non obstructive. Think LOTR trailer in tv commercials.

And of course, if mozillaZine can stay ads free, it would be the best.

"It would be nice if you just posted your expenses and money reserves on-line."

Expenses are hosting (annual fee primarily based on data transfer) and, er, that's it. The domain is registered until 2007 so there's not much to worry about there. The most recent hosting bill (what we're asking the readers to cover now) is $990. I'm not sure how much is in the kitty right now but last night it was over $600. Before the donations appeal started it was about $18.

Obviously, the more money we get now, the longer it'll be until we have to do this again. And if we get tons and tons, we can think about making improvements to the site. And I can get that beach house in Rio. ;-)

Alex

Well, I've added stickers to the store that have a 5, 10, or 20 dollar markup on them, if you feel better about using cafepress. If not, we'll have other means of donation setup for next time we beg :).

jason