MozillaZine

Full Article Attached Help Keep MozillaZine in Business

Sunday February 16th, 2003

It's time to bail out MozillaZine again! If you think MozillaZine is a valuable community resource, please consider donating to us. While other organisations looking for donations may be happy to accept time, equipment or expertise, we're looking for cold hard cash.

If you donate to MozillaZine, you will help to ensure that we can continue to provide the Mozilla community with up-to-the-minute news, first class forums and informative developer weblogs. If you don't donate to MozillaZine, the Mozilla community could just be left with bug counts and bad grammar.

Our preferred way of receiving donations is via PayPal. Use one of the buttons that appear on each page. Think big numbers. If you prefer to receive something tangible for your cash, there's also our CafePress.com store but that doesn't make us nearly as much money.

Thank you.


#1 Here is an idea

by robdogg

Sunday February 16th, 2003 6:51 PM

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Start carrying ads and stop whining. With 7 million hits, it should more than cover your hosting fees.

#2 RE: Here is an idea

by complinguist

Sunday February 16th, 2003 7:01 PM

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Well, personally, I don't think that ads will help at all. If MozillaZine adds banners, I'll be dissapointed for sure, but then I'll just block the advertisements from their originating server. (Thanks to Image->Context Menu->Block Images from this Server).

I don't know about you, but I'm going to donate to MozillaZine! Who's with me? No sé de Uds., pero ¡voy a donar a MozillaZine! ¿Quienes están conmigo?

#16 Re: RE: Here is an idea

by Trucoto

Monday February 17th, 2003 5:46 AM

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Donaría si no viviera en un país del tercer mundo ;)

#13 Why not pop-ups ;-) (NT)

by Z_God

Monday February 17th, 2003 3:44 AM

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no text

#35 THankyou! What is wrong with banners?

by mattrix

Monday February 17th, 2003 2:59 PM

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Sorry but what the hell is wrong with banner ads? They are relatively unobtrusive, have little effect on the loading time of the page and would bring MozillaZine a little bit of money.

I hope that the freeloaders that block banners donate to every single site that they use, or come up with some other way for sites to cover their costs.

Would you rather have no television or television with adverts? Sheesh.

#39 ads detract significantly from your experience

by joschi

Monday February 17th, 2003 3:24 PM

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there are so many sites out there that are littered with flashing animated crap that its almost impossible to read the actual articles. non animated ads provide so little revenue that all sites will move incresingly towards these if they want ot support themselves on ads alone (look at slashdot). ads like this are utterly killing the interent experience. as soon as moz is able to block other content types like flash, i will block them all and be much happier. ever obtrusive and distracting ads are a dead end source of revenue, the future is a pbs like subscription model that k5 and mozzine are pushing, and i'm very fond of salon.com's "do 1 long click through add and get access all day to the premium content" model a lot.

(and yes, as soon as i get my next paycheck i'll be donating to mz)

#40 Re: THankyou! What is wrong with banners?

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Monday February 17th, 2003 3:37 PM

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"Would you rather have no television or television with adverts?"

I'd rather have television with no adverts. That's what MozillaZine offers.

Alex

#42 exactly, i'd rather have pbs.

by joschi

Monday February 17th, 2003 4:14 PM

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I donate to PBS and NPR both because ad free content is as a rule vastly superior to content that has to be bent to the whims of advertisers.

now if only MZ would just become a non-profit...

#70 Re: exactly, i'd rather have pbs.

by robdogg

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 2:05 PM

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>>I donate to PBS and NPR

You must be a very depressed person as a result of watching PBS and listening NPR.

#78 what?

by joschi

Wednesday February 19th, 2003 1:26 PM

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actually, being well informed is a good way of avoiding depression... if my only news source was the propaganda bullshit that fox and cnn push i'd probably have killed myself a couple years ago :)

#84 animated gifs

by wittmeba <MikeBrandn@aol.com>

Saturday March 8th, 2003 5:48 AM

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I agree with joschi. Ads distract. I hate trying to read a lengthly and informative article with animated gifs, flashing and stuff jumping around.

Just give the users the choice - I personally dont think many like it...otherwise why would there be such a push for the option - just like spam.

#85 Re: THankyou! What is wrong with banners?

by aleksei

Sunday March 9th, 2003 4:46 PM

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Personally, I would rather have no TV....

#3 reasons

by kryptolus

Sunday February 16th, 2003 7:12 PM

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If you want people to donate, justify the reasons! Some people would only donate if they knew what their money would be used for.

#4 Re: reasons

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Sunday February 16th, 2003 7:21 PM

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"If you want people to donate, justify the reasons! Some people would only donate if they knew what their money would be used for."

Read the article. Hosting fees and the like (the Kerz's hot tub thing is a joke).

Alex

#5 Stupid readers

by WillyWonka

Sunday February 16th, 2003 7:53 PM

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"Do you really think your readers are stupid enough to give you money? They did last time. "

So, that's a yes then :)

#6 Hey...

by rzaakir

Sunday February 16th, 2003 7:59 PM

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Is my donation tax deductable?

#7 Re: Hey...

by kerz <jason@mozillazine.org>

Sunday February 16th, 2003 8:03 PM

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Not as far as I know, we don't have any special status as a non-profit orginization or anything.

jason

#82 why not?

by smkatz

Monday February 24th, 2003 9:13 PM

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Does *mozilla.org* have nonprofit status? 501* businesses can be nonprofit without being tax-deductible. I don't know very much about it.

I like donating--and then getting a say.

For instance, I'd like "breaking news reports" in my box. new versions, security holes.. (same thing.. does no good to report security holes without new versions.)

Oh, and how about putting <autocomplete = off on this form.. or seperating the login form from the post form so that the password manager works correctly?

#83 user control mechanism for <autocomplete=off>

by smkatz

Monday February 24th, 2003 9:20 PM

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why do I need to fill in the response tag. *<autocomplete=off>

see bugs for this feature's origin. also: users can turn this back on with some javascript, which I will not reveal. (generally, banks should consider this hacking, and irresponsible behavior at a public terminal not a bug on Mozilla's part.)

ok.. I don't think they can fix it anyway.

<http://www.bookmarklets.com/forms.htm> strips the form tag's autocomplete attribute from any forms on the page (locally.)

#8 Polaroid

by WillyWonka

Sunday February 16th, 2003 8:07 PM

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If we donate do we get a polaroid of the poor MozillaZine admins to put up on the fridge?

"So what happens if no-one donates? MozillaZine may be forced to close. Or even worse, start carrying ads. "

Why do I feel like quoting the first Harry Potter movie?

#9 PayPal? You've got to be kidding . . .

by jvlb

Sunday February 16th, 2003 11:00 PM

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The only way I'd use PayPal was if you paid me to do it, but then, that would defeat the purpose, now wouldn't it?

#12 Re: PayPal?

by pointwood

Monday February 17th, 2003 2:27 AM

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I agree, I don't have a Paypal account and I'll never get one either - I simply don't trust them.

#14 Re: Re: PayPal?

by gssq <gabrielseah@hotmail.com>

Monday February 17th, 2003 5:05 AM

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Why not?

Everything's logged and if they did anything bad, the bad publicity would drive them out of business.

Advantages of having a brand name to uphold.

#46 Bad publicity

by pointwood

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 2:16 AM

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Well, that is actually exactly what first made me refuse to use Paypal.

#74 Re: PayPal?

by dtobias <dan@tobias.name>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 6:45 PM

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For some criticism of PayPal, and links to "horror stories", see my page:

<http://paypal.haters.info/>

In their favor, however, the number of "horror stories" does seem to be reducing with time, so perhaps their management isn't quite as atrocious as it once was. They do, however, still freeze people's accounts if they have the audacity to log in while traveling to a banned country, and it can be really difficult to extricate yourself from their bureaucracy when such a thing happens.

I kept up a boycott of PayPal for quite a while, but finally gave in and started occasional use of it due to the distressing prevalence of sites that refuse to allow any alternative transfer means (whether for affiliate programs paying me, or sites seeking donations like yours), but I'd still much prefer it if a different method were provided that doesn't require use of that service.

For those who must use PayPal, I'd suggest transferring out all or most of your received funds quickly, rather than allowing any sizable balance to stay there subject to getting frozen.

#36 Re: Re: PayPal?

by Parsap

Monday February 17th, 2003 3:02 PM

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It's time to throw away the tinfoil hat. I've used PayPal for literally thousands of transactions and nothing bad has happened.

#45 Whatever

by pointwood

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 2:14 AM

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They are not a bank and therefore they don't have the same responsibilities as banks do.

#47 Re: PayPal?

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 3:13 AM

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> They are not a bank and therefore they don't have the same responsibilities as banks do.

And the internet is not a pen-and-paper, nor is it a telephone. Times change, and so do mediums to get things done! ;)

#66 I won't get a PayPal account either

by mlippert <mlippert255@yahoo.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 11:58 AM

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Yeah, I've read too many negative stories.

#10 Implement nested comments!

by Tar

Monday February 17th, 2003 12:30 AM

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Like /. has, all comments in a nested fashion in thread not like threaded single comments where you have to hog up the bandwidth for every comment or flat mode where you can't understand who's answering what.

Direct some of that hosting cash to your poor webmaster and give us nested comments!

I'd donate if I could :/

#34 Nested comments and other suggestions

by superyooser

Monday February 17th, 2003 2:33 PM

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I second that! Right now, I'm opening a new tab for each thread. Lots of bandwith could be saved if all the content could be on one page, orderly and nested. Why doesn't MZ use something like Slash code: <http://slashcode.com/> ? If posters could preview their comments, they wouldn't have to repost them with corrections (mainly for botched links and lack of line breaks).

There are lots of ways that MozillaZine could conserve bandwith. (1) Allow nested comment display (as mentioned above). (2) Detect Gecko-based and IE5+ user agents, and serve up a CSS-formatted page instead of using all those font tags. (3) Fix the issue that results in multiple posts of the same comment. (4) Use b (bold) tags instead of strong tags. They are rendered exactly the same. It's only a few bytes saved here and there, but being downloaded 7 million times a month, it can make a difference. (5) Implement a system like Slashdot that defines all those features on the sidebar (MZ links, Google search, mozilla.org links, poll, older news) as slashboxes, which logged-in members can choose to turn off. (6) Advertisements. Why not? It wouldn't bother me a bit, as long as they're not wildly flashing psychadelic colors like those x10 camera ads. I click on ThinkGeek ads sometimes. They have lots of cool stuff.

#11 my opinion

by NXprime

Monday February 17th, 2003 12:56 AM

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If I may present my opinion on this subject, please. I am trying not to be rude at all but I wanted to say a few things. If you need money you really should place some ads. Asking people for money or setting up store items to make profit never works. Hell, I didn't even know about that store until today. :)

It'll be sad to see you go. This is the first sign of serious trouble. I've been wanting to donate to several sites but I lost my job and have no money. What I've seen since then is some of them make deals with companies to stay afloat(i.e. Shacknews with Speakeasy & AMD). However most others shut the sites down. :/ Guys just do that and sign up with AOL or something. You support some of their products, correct? Dumb question for sure and I'm sorry, but had to ask why you haven't yet done that.

There's no point to donations at this point. Right now I don't give money because it's the wrong situation to do it in. What if I give $50 and you shut the site down in 3 months? It's too risky an investment in that context. I'd rather donate to EXPAND the site to let it prosper more as long as I know it's going to stay around. That's important to me.

So here's your options.

A. Hope u get enough through paypal only constantly for like what? 5 years? B. Put properly targeted ads on the site that would interest members. OMG! Do a Shacknews thing and ask people to fill out a anonymous profile! Ad companies love those thingies :) C. Strip the site of all bandwidth things like forums, polls.... etc. D. Merge with another website. Hint, Mozilla.org has a lot your news items on it anyway. Just ask them if they'd like more news events on the site plus user feedback. I've always thought of this site as an extendtion of Mozilla.org anyway :) E. Close the site

It's your choice. I've seen too many sites ask for donations. Subscription base the forums or something. Do that first before asking for donations. Usually that should be a last resort. Again that's just my personal opinion. Yes I know that I don't know the whole situation for this site. I understand that but just wanted to say this anyway. Sorry. :/ Although my thinking makes me believe you guys don't have time to set anything up like that which in case it would make sense for this website to leave.

For me I come here for news only. I used to read opinions of Mozilla releases but rarely read them anymore. My interest is what will happen next for Mozilla and how these side projects (chimera, phonix... ect) will affect it plus what new features will be added that would convince me to use Mozilla instead. All these recent releases don't impress me much. A new interface is definately needed where there are no damn msgbox popups. "Cannot connect to site". Geeez, just create a warning area bar and leave it like that. Or how about this? Why do we have 2 bookmark editing areas? One on the sidebar and bookmark manager. Dude. Pick one and stick with it. I'd love to see EVERYTHING tossed into the sidebar. For consistencies sake. Preferences, bookmarks, and any other options. The currect preference menu makes me want to puke. It's cute how some sub directy names can't be completely seen on the left side. Privacy & security --> Master Passwo.... Ahem. Just plain stupid. Simple common interface. That's all I ask. Hehe, oh well. /rant :)

#22 Re: my opinion

by WillyWonka

Monday February 17th, 2003 9:19 AM

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Over a year ago they asked for donations to keep the site alive and people were willing to do it because they don't want to see ads. They even stripped down the site for a bit to reduce bandwidth while they raised enough money. It works just fine this way and they raised enough money so that they were able to implement an even better forum section then they had before. If they don't get enough money they'll shut down and we'll go elsewhere. I for one would rather not see ads on this site.

#25 Re: my opinion

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Monday February 17th, 2003 10:11 AM

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"If you need money you really should place some ads. Asking people for money or setting up store items to make profit never works."

It's worked before and, judging by the donations so far, it'll work again. Anyway, the purpose isn't to make a profit, it's to cover expenses.

"It'll be sad to see you go."

Well, we're not planning to. :-)

"This is the first sign of serious trouble."

You obviously weren't here in late 2001: <http://www.mozillazine.or…alkback.html?article=2104> <http://www.mozillazine.or…alkback.html?article=2111> <http://www.mozillazine.or…alkback.html?article=2114> <http://www.mozillazine.or…alkback.html?article=2115>

The situation was much more serious then. Right now, it's not so bad. It's also been far more widely anticipated. And the most recent hosting bill has actually been paid; it's just that the money came from Jason Kersey's back pocket. Even if no-one donated, the site would still be good for another year.

"I've been wanting to donate to several sites but I lost my job and have no money."

No-one expects you to donate if you can't afford it. No-one expects you to donate even if you can afford it. Donations are entirely optional. No-one should feel forced to contribute.

"There's no point to donations at this point."

MozillaZine's PayPal balance suggests otherwise. :-)

"Right now I don't give money because it's the wrong situation to do it in. What if I give $50 and you shut the site down in 3 months? It's too risky an investment in that context."

So don't donate. No-one's going to hold it against you.

"So here's your options.

"A. Hope u get enough through paypal only constantly for like what? 5 years?"

That would appear to be working so far.

"B. Put properly targeted ads on the site that would interest members. OMG! Do a Shacknews thing and ask people to fill out a anonymous profile! Ad companies love those thingies :)"

MozillaZine has run ads in the past. They also always seemed to be those 'Punch the f*cking monkey' ones. People would probably just block them anyway.

"C. Strip the site of all bandwidth things like forums, polls.... etc."

But then it wouldn't be as good.

"D. Merge with another website. Hint, Mozilla.org has a lot your news items on it anyway. Just ask them if they'd like more news events on the site plus user feedback. I've always thought of this site as an extendtion of Mozilla.org anyway :)"

mozilla.org is the official site of, er, mozilla.org. Merging with them wouldn't really be an option because MozillaZine would lose its independence.

"E. Close the site"

That really would be the last resort.

"I've seen too many sites ask for donations. Subscription base the forums or something. Do that first before asking for donations. Usually that should be a last resort."

I think donations are preferable to subscriptions. Subscriptions force people to pay if they want to use the site. Donations keep it free and accessible to everyone. And for some reason (stupidity, naivity, or maybe even generousity) they work! Sure, maybe subscriptions looks like a "viable and forward-thinking business model" whereas donations looks like desperation. But we don't care. We have no shame. :-)

Alex

#32 Re: Re: my opinion

by Sander

Monday February 17th, 2003 11:46 AM

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I for one am very glad you're going to donations route. Unlike going with subscriptions or ads, it assumes people visiting the site care about it and are willing to invest in it without being forced to do so, which (luckily) often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy precisely because of this, while also making sure not to alienate those people who for whatever reason are currently unable to donate. I myself fall in the latter catagory for now. Next year however...? I'm not certain, but chances are that by then I will be able to pay. Hopefully at that time there'll be some other service than PayPal though; I've seen a few too many horror stories about it to think lightly about signing up with them.

#33 Re: my opinion

by Ascaris <ascaris1@att.net>

Monday February 17th, 2003 1:05 PM

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NXPrime wrote:

> Why do we have 2 bookmark editing areas? One on the sidebar and bookmark manager. Dude. Pick one and stick with it. I'd love to see EVERYTHING tossed into the sidebar.

Ok, so you would like to see that stuff in the sidebar. Not all of us agree. I hate the sidebar; the first thing I did when I first tried NS6 was X that thing out of there, and the same is true of Mozilla. I have never used it and I never will. If there was not another way to edit the bookmarks other than the sidebar, I would have to open bookmarks.html in composer to edit it... not what I could call ideal. There are two ways to do it because some people like the sidebar and some do not. It makes sense. It is redundant, but versatility requires redundancy sometimes.

As for ads-- yes, if they were put on here, we would all block them, given that most, if not all, of us that read this site use Mozilla or one of its derivatives. Would that mean that you would not get paid for the ads? I have no idea how that works. I've been approached by people that claim to want to put ads on my site, but I never replied...

Frank

#67 Sidebar

by mlippert <mlippert255@yahoo.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 12:07 PM

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I really like Mozilla and part of the reason is choice! I really don't like the sidebar and never ever use it. Making that the only place bookmarks are available would drive me to another browser. Sounds like getting rid of the sidebar would drive you to another browser.

I'm also perfectly OK with the current preferences dialog. I see all of the names just fine, but dialogs (unless they're resizable which is highly desireable but a pain to implement) are always a problem with Text size. They are supposed to resize based on the font size they use, but that doesn't always work.

Lastly, I don't use MozillaZine that often, but I'd consider contributing a small amount (I like that option way better than a subscription option) but I won't use PayPal.

#15 I'll go for display banners

by nicubunu

Monday February 17th, 2003 5:20 AM

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Living in East Europe, donating via PayPal is not an option, neither the store. For me, the only reasonable option is to read banners (and to allow Mozilla to dysplay banners served by MZ).

#29 Re: I'll go for display banners

by jesusX <jesus_x@mozillanews.org>

Monday February 17th, 2003 11:18 AM

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Just out of curiosity, why is it not an option? Do they not accept credit cards from foreign countries, or do you not have one? I'm merely curious, nothing more.

You could always send a fist full of rubles. ;)

#38 THankyou! What is wrong with banners?

by mattrix

Monday February 17th, 2003 3:04 PM

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Paypal is hell to use outside of the USA. Even if you've got an American-based credit card they insist on some redicoulous activation scheme where you have to look on your statement for a code or something. And if you've got a british debit card like Switch or Solo then its useless.

#48 PayPal is NOT difficult to use outside US

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 3:22 AM

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I live in Germany and have a PayPal account. I found it quite simple and logical. All the questions and confirmations they requested made sense and seemed necessary to maintain the security of my money. That is a good thing.

Are you just lazy? :-P

#71 Why neccesary?

by mattrix

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 2:24 PM

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No such validation is required for people in the US? Are non-USA people more likely to be criminals or something?

#58 credit cards - not very useful here

by nicubunu

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 8:01 AM

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here the usage of credit cards is VERY low, very few people use them and the majority of cards are for local currecy and don't allow foreign transactions

#17 Why not ads?

by gssq <gabrielseah@hotmail.com>

Monday February 17th, 2003 7:03 AM

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I really don't see why you won't accept advertising. We can pay, say, $1/month for an ad-free version.

Mozillazine has NO source of constant revenue. This can't really go on (unless the Bill and Melissa Gates Charitable Organisation grants you $1 million... Right)

So go for it. Better some ads and a sustainable site than no site, no?

#19 Re: Why not ads?

by mozineAdmin

Monday February 17th, 2003 7:28 AM

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1) Ads suck.

2) Ads don't provide much money at all. Especially if people block them using handy-dandy mozilla technology.

3) I personally like how speedy and reliable Mozillazine became after I stopped ads on the site.

I'm no longer maintaining MZ in any capacity, however, so I can't speak for Jason and Alex. Just my opinion.

#37 text ads (n.t)

by Parsap

Monday February 17th, 2003 3:03 PM

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#18 CafePress

by rzaakir

Monday February 17th, 2003 7:09 AM

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I'm really not a big paypal fan either. If you don't mind telling, what kind of margins do you guys make on the cafepress stuff? That way I can order enough to make sure that I'm giving you a sizable enough donation, and I'm getting some zealot gear to go into battle with!

#24 Re: CafePress

by jbetak <jbetak@netscape.com>

Monday February 17th, 2003 10:00 AM

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CafePress is pretty bad in terms of margins. While they certainly deserve the lion's share of any sale, since they are doing all the work, a base price of $14 for a T-Shirt just won't cut it. Plus their quality isn't *that* great. We've had some experience with them for fund raising and it turned out to be a losing proposition. I also know someone who has ordered 100 mugs for his event for resale. Their base price on the mug was so steep that the market wouldn't carry it and he ended up promoting his event, but losing quite a bit of his *mug investment*.

#26 Re: CafePress

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Monday February 17th, 2003 10:16 AM

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"If you don't mind telling, what kind of margins do you guys make on the cafepress stuff?"

Here's CafePress.com's list of base prices: <http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/help/pricing.aspx>

MozillaZine Store Price - Base Price = MozillaZine's Profit

Alex

#20 Is there a service similar to PayPal donations?

by mozineAdmin

Monday February 17th, 2003 7:32 AM

Reply to this message

Are there any other services out there that do something similar that people have more faith in?

#30 Amazon.com has one... (N/T)

by jesusX <jesus_x@mozillanews.org>

Monday February 17th, 2003 11:20 AM

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Amazon.com has one...

#21 How much hosting needed

by Lynggaard <Lynggaard@netscape.net>

Monday February 17th, 2003 7:43 AM

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Can you give us an idea of the amount of trafiic (in Gigabytes) that this site has ?

And how big a machine is it placed on ?

#27 Re: How much hosting needed

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Monday February 17th, 2003 10:20 AM

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"Can you give us an idea of the amount of trafiic (in Gigabytes) that this site has ?"

About 30GB a month.

"And how big a machine is it placed on ?"

It's probably a few feet by a few feet.

Alex

#28 Re: How much hosting needed

by Tar

Monday February 17th, 2003 10:52 AM

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Enable the mod_gz and I bet bandwidth usage drops ~3x

#49 Re: How much hosting needed

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 3:26 AM

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Just curious: what is "mod_gz"?

#51 Re: Re: How much hosting needed

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 3:41 AM

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"Just curious: what is 'mod_gz'?"

It's an Apache thingy that automagically gzips (compresses) the data before sending it to the client. It only does this if the client supports it (Mozilla does).

Alex

#50 Re: Re: How much hosting needed

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 3:42 AM

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"Enable the mod_gz and I bet bandwidth usage drops ~3x"

We (Chris, Jason and I) had a long discussion about this last night and we think mod_gz (or rather its predecessor mod_gzip) is enabled. Do you know of any way of finding out for sure? Because we couldn't figure it out. :-)

Alex

#53 Re: Re: Re: How much hosting needed

by stmoebius <stmoebius@yahoo.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 4:44 AM

Reply to this message

Try ethereal (<http://www.ethereal.com/>). It captures all your network traffic and displays the contents of all PDUs. So you should be able to see whether the HTTP traffic is compressed.

#54 Correct link inside

by stmoebius <stmoebius@yahoo.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 4:44 AM

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#55 Re: How much hosting needed

by Tar

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 7:01 AM

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nc being netcat or telnet, remove the double \n\n # nc mozillazine.org 80

HEAD / HTTP/1.0

Host: mozillazine.org

Accept-Encoding: gzip

HTTP/1.1 200 OK

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:56:05 GMT

Server: Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a mod_throttle/3.1.2 PHP/4.2.3 mod_ssl/2.8.11 OpenSSL/0.9.6g

X-Powered-By: PHP/4.2.3

Connection: close

Content-Type: text/html

If it were using mod_gz then the output would be:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK

Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:56:05 GMT

Server: Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a mod_throttle/3.1.2 PHP/4.2.3 mod_ssl/2.8.11 OpenSSL/0.9.6g

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Content-Encoding: gzip

Vary: Accept-Encoding

Content-Length: ????

Connection: close

Content-Type: text/html

#77 Re: Re: How much hosting needed

by bzbarsky

Wednesday February 19th, 2003 8:52 AM

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> HEAD / HTTP/1.0

HTTP/1.0 does not support content-encoding. Any server that replies to that request with a content-encoded HTTP/1.1 response is seriously buggy.

#81 Re: How much hosting needed

by Tar

Thursday February 20th, 2003 12:07 AM

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Server: Apache/1.3.27 (Win32) PHP/4.2.3

php.ini: output_handler = ob_gzhandler

And PHP won't respect the HTTP/1.0|1.1, so it's PHPs bug :/

It seems that mozillazine.org actually does have the mod_gzip enabled but doesn't activate it when sending a HEAD request.

#79 mod_gzip

by mlefevre

Wednesday February 19th, 2003 3:28 PM

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yes, you are using it :)

the handy livehttpheaders (<http://livehttpheaders.mozdev.org/>) shows the headers that mozilla sends and receives for a page.

the headers for the mozillazine pages show: Content-Encoding: gzip

and just to confirm, for the home page it says: Content-Length: 6756 I saved the page source and it was 15920 bytes.

#23 Actually, I do not mind ads that...

by glam

Monday February 17th, 2003 9:40 AM

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1. sits towards the right side of the page 2. do not spoil the theme of the site 3. do not take up too much white space 4. do not have too much animation(loop once, 2-3 seconds animation is fine with me) 5. appear in between page transits once in a while(like a 3 second commercial in every 20 pages) 6. I might be interested in(like pleasing to eyes)

I do block(images) advertisements that are 1. popup 2. appear on top of page 3. appear in the middle of an article 4. appear on the left side of the page 5. offensive in contents

One of the site where I do not block ads (and possibly click through the ads) is - <http://news.reuters.com/>

#72 Re: Actually, I do not mind ads that...

by mattrix

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 2:26 PM

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"loop once"

Edit->Prefrences->Privacy & Security->Images->Animated images should loop->Once

#76 [off/topic] Actually, I do not mind ads that...

by glam

Wednesday February 19th, 2003 6:45 AM

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#31 use CSS to save bandwidth

by corwin

Monday February 17th, 2003 11:35 AM

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If you look at Mozillazine code, there is a LOT of useless HTML code used for layout. Use CSS and you will probably drop file size by 20%-30%, perhaps more. You will save your bandwidth and pages will display faster for your users.

#41 Guarantee

by RAF

Monday February 17th, 2003 3:59 PM

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I'll pay $50,00 if Alex Bishop (whom I will never call Blake again) guarantees that he will keep posting his 'sense of humour'...

RAF

#43 Re: Guarantee

by kerz <jason@mozillazine.org>

Monday February 17th, 2003 4:16 PM

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I'm going to assume you had the comma in the wrong place, and meant 5,000 (hey, I live in the US, I'm allowed to do such things). If so, I can guarantee Alex will keep posting, and I'll enjoy putting a down payment on a new car!

jason

#44 Re: Guarantee

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Monday February 17th, 2003 4:29 PM

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"I'll pay $50,00 if Alex Bishop (whom I will never call Blake again) guarantees that he will keep posting his 'sense of humour'... "

Are you mocking my finely-honed wit?

Unlike Kerz, I'm going to assume you had the comma in the wrong place, and meant 50,000 (hey, I live in the UK, I'm allowed to do such things). If so, I can guarantee I will keep posting, and I'll enjoy moving into my new beach house in Rio!

Alex

#68 Ok, enough humour, I paid

by RAF

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 12:16 PM

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fifty dollars.

Alex, will this house have a bubble bath? AJason: fine, as long as it isn't one of those yellow Nissan things on wheels... Oh, er, will it have a bubble bath?

#63 period, not comma

by Chris_C

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 10:47 AM

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He probably meant $50.00 . In most European countries, the function of period and comma is the reverse of what US residents are used to. So, for example, in Euro-speak, our competent and respected president earns 400.000,00 dollars a year.

#52 Advertising

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 3:45 AM

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Why is everyone so keen for MozillaZine to carry ads? Do you all own DoubleClick shares or something? Or do you have trouble believeing that relying on donations is a viable funding model?

Alex

#65 Re: Advertising

by pbreit

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 11:34 AM

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My guess is that using a service like MarketBanker, M-zine could generate sufficient cash flow.

I think people actually like seeing people compensated for their quality service and liklihood of sticking around.

#75 Advertising

by glam

Wednesday February 19th, 2003 6:25 AM

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Maybe I could clarify here, since I was one of the proponents to use advertisement.

By using advertisement,

I meant for mozillaZine to carry ads that they are able to vet, and hopefully _not_ via an agent(like doubleclick). Think selective.

I meant for ads that an advertiser would like mozillaZine to carry specifically. Think targetted.

It may or may not be a viable _single_ funding model, but it could be one of the income source, besides donation. Think composition.

For example, there could be ads to recognise those people that have made a donation. Think rewards.

Tasteful ads well placed can be non intrusive and non obstructive. Think LOTR trailer in tv commercials.

And of course, if mozillaZine can stay ads free, it would be the best.

#56 transparency spawns donations, i think

by bulbul <leston@csi.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 7:05 AM

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I have already made my monetary contribution, but i still have a suggestion. There are people here asking exactly what the money's going towards. It would be nice if you just posted your expenses and money reserves on-line. This is what the AbiWord project does, way down at the end of the AbiWord Weekly News: <http://www.abisource.com/…on/news/2003/awn130.phtml> . That way, people can know when money is needed, they know how much is needed, and they also know that it's not being wasted on frivolous expenses.

There's been a lot of whining here about asking readers for donations. Please be aware that many of us are quite happy liviing without annoying ads and that we don't mind being asked to caugh up a little money once a year.

One last thing, those tote bags in the MozillaZine store are very high quality and the colors of the MozillaZine logo are beautiful. (And the design is on both sides of the bag.) I love mine. I'm even using it today. MozillaZine gets a lot more money if you just donate directly, but if you need a nice tote bag, go for it!

#57 Re: transparency spawns donations, i think

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 7:21 AM

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"It would be nice if you just posted your expenses and money reserves on-line."

Expenses are hosting (annual fee primarily based on data transfer) and, er, that's it. The domain is registered until 2007 so there's not much to worry about there. The most recent hosting bill (what we're asking the readers to cover now) is $990. I'm not sure how much is in the kitty right now but last night it was over $600. Before the donations appeal started it was about $18.

Obviously, the more money we get now, the longer it'll be until we have to do this again. And if we get tons and tons, we can think about making improvements to the site. And I can get that beach house in Rio. ;-)

Alex

#59 transparency spawns donations, i think

by bulbul <leston@csi.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 8:09 AM

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Okay, but my idea wasn't to tell me the figures in a thread. (How many people will see that?) My suggestion is to make the expenses and income information permanently available, easily accessible, and routinely updated. Make a page with expense and income info and link it to your front page. Update it periodically, say every week or every month. I am suggesting that you do something like the AbiWord Weekly News does.

#60 Is that really necessary?

by mozineAdmin

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 8:50 AM

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There's one single outlay a year - for hosting services. What information would require weekly updating?

#62 transparency spawns donations, i think

by bulbul <leston@csi.com>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 10:43 AM

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Your income and balances would require periodic updating (not necessarily weekly, how about monthly?). Did you look at the AbiWord link i gave as an example? They post how much money is "in the kitty" and what donations they've received that week. I'm only suggesting this because i think that such transparency would encourage donations. As it stands, MozillaZine has a "donate" button, but there's no indication anywhere on the site as to how much money it takes to run the site, what the money is used for, and whether money is actually needed or is in surplus at any given time.

Please don't take my suggestion as whining. I have already made donations this year and last, and i have purchased merchandise through the store. I just think that being up front about expenses and balances would encourage more people to donate. Few people probably realize how much it really costs to run this site. Even public television and radio stations, during pledge drives, state goals (that is, specific targeted amounts) and periodic updates on progress towards meeting those goals. They must do this because it works.

#61 Sad-looking animal

by Kovu <Kovu401@netscape.net>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 9:24 AM

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I still say you need a needy-looking beast to get people to donate, like at Amiga.org. Plus, that type of thing would keep the ad there constantly, whereas this one will be lost as new postings go up.

#64 Give us an address to send a check to

by Chris_C

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 10:52 AM

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I'm not going to waste my time digging up (again) the serious problems with using PayPal -- I'm sure you all can use Google to find out for yourself. And the thin margins via CafePress have already been illustrated in this forum. Give us an address to mail a check to! (and who to make it out to).

#69 Re: Give us an address to send a check to

by kerz <jason@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 12:34 PM

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Well, I've added stickers to the store that have a 5, 10, or 20 dollar markup on them, if you feel better about using cafepress. If not, we'll have other means of donation setup for next time we beg :).

jason

#80 High-margin stickers work great!

by Chris_C

Wednesday February 19th, 2003 7:57 PM

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Great idea! Will do.

#73 For people who don't like PayPal

by mattrix

Tuesday February 18th, 2003 2:32 PM

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#86 Contributer Goal

by UnauTHorizeD

Monday March 10th, 2003 1:43 AM

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You should put up a status bar on the goal (amount of money) needed to keep the MozillaZine up.

make an objective, maybe give out a prize? eg, person to donate most gets the to download the first release of the next stable release?) do some motivation, and add a mailing address where we can send cheques to. noone trusts paypal.