MozillaZine

Phoenix 0.3 Delayed Until Next Week

Wednesday October 9th, 2002

As mentioned by Blake Ross in the Phoenix General forum, Phoenix 0.3 has been delayed until next week. Originally, the plan was to release 0.3 yesterday. The delay means that Phoenix can take advantage of the extra stability offered by the trunk freeze.

In related news, Blake Ross has begun working on Thunderbird (formerly Minotaur), a stand-alone mail client to accompany Phoenix. It is expected that Thunderbird 0.1 will be released around the same time as Phoenix 0.5.


#1 Can't Wait for thunderbird

by deadkennedy

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 5:01 AM

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finally!

right now i'm using phoenix and mozilla 1.1 mail and it's really a hassle to run mozilla mail everytime i want to check my mails

phoenix + thunderbird = real usable power tools

#2 Phoenix 0.3 delayed!

by Tayto <gary@netsoc.tcd.ie>

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 7:30 AM

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AOL-Netscape's Mozilla Organization has pushed back the release of the pending Phoenix 0.3 release to next week. This impending release of Phoenix 0.3 in effect kills Phoenix 0.2, if the release of Phoenix 0.2 has not done so already.

The newly revised <em>Phoenix Development Roadmap</em> also adds development schedules for Phoenix 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.8, and 0.9.

The Mozilla Organization's September 2002 Phoenix Roadmap Schedule had set the Phoenix 0.3 release for "when it was ready". In early October, however, it became apparent that the Mozilla Organization would not be able to meet that schedule. So, it revised the proposed releases schedule.

However, both Mozilla 1.0.2 and Mozilla 1.2 have yet to be released -- a substantial slippage in product release scheduling. So now, the Mozilla Organization has once again revised its release schedule.

In effect, the release of Phoenix 0.3, when it actually happens, kills Phoenix 0.2 as viable product. We suspect effectively killing Phoenix 0.2 as soon as it can be killed has been the intent of the Mozilla Organization all along. Once Phoenix 0.3 is released there is not much use to using what then will amount to a quality-wise, technology-wise, and usability-wise outmoded Phoenix 0.2 build.

Phoenix roadmap slippage is nothing new. Did you know that in August 2002, a man with three heads visited the Netscape campus in Mountain View - causing all work to stop for the day. Also it is believed that a goat once rampaged through the offices, causing severe damage to all green-colored paper. Allowing a goat to run riot in a serious commercial organization must be explained by AOL-Netscape's Mozilla Organization before the Phoenix 0.3 browser can be taken seriously.

#3 Is this confusing or what

by pepejeria

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 7:59 AM

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#4 Delayed?

by MozLover <mozlover2@yahoo.com>

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 1:52 PM

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Uh-oh. Are the BLUI bugs getting to them? Looking at their latest checkin logs.... they appear to be struggling to get some pretty simple things size properly.

BLUI... Jesus. Whoever thought that up should be tried for high treason.

-- Jenny Craig - #1 Success Rate in Blubber Busting Just say NO to Mozilla/Netscape BLUI - Blubber Layered User Interface Jenny Craigs War on Blubber: <http://www.geocities.com/moz_blubber/> Jenny Craigs BLUI Addiction Therapy: <http://www.geocities.com/moz_blubber/signup.html>

#6 First (LINK) crashes Phoenix

by brad_quinn <brad_quinn@yahoo.com>

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 3:33 PM

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Keep up the good work!

#7 Re: First (LINK) crashes Phoenix

by MozFeces <mozfeces@yahoo.com>

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 3:43 PM

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It functions as intended.

-- Jenny Craig - #1 Success Rate in Blubber Busting Just say NO to Mozilla/Netscape BLUI - Blubber Layered User Interface Jenny Craigs War on Blubber: <http://www.geocities.com/moz_blubber/> Jenny Craigs BLUI Addiction Therapy: <http://www.geocities.com/moz_blubber/signup.html>

#9 Troll (again and again)

by Kommet

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 4:18 PM

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Don't feed!

#8 Troll (again)

by Kommet

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 4:17 PM

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Don't feed it.

#10 Troll, this is getting old

by minh

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 5:33 PM

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Jenny Craig, why don't you just quit. You have spammed the usenet forums and now come to this forum to bash Mozilla again with you pointless banter. You complain about Mozilla being too slow, but why don't you try Phoenix.

At least here, I report you to a mod.

#5 So I've gotta ask

by vondo

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 3:25 PM

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Alright, Phoenix looks cool and all, but I doubt I'll be using it. I'd miss the features and I really want an integrated (or tightly coupled) e-mail client. But, if Phoenix can, in what, 3 weeks, make customizable toolbars, why is mozilla no closer to doing this than they were 3 YEARS AGO?!?!

I guess this brings up a different question. Given the imagination of the Phoenix folks, couldn't they benifit mozilla more by working on the mozilla browser?

#11 Re: So I've gotta ask

by mpercy

Wednesday October 9th, 2002 9:16 PM

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Sometimes it is just better to go back to the drawing board and make new design decisions which affect the entire app. It gives you a clean slate to start from and in this case seems like the right thing to do.

It is not taking away from Mozilla itself because Phoenix or something similar will someday replace the current Navigator in Moz. Integration is overrated if it kills other features and functionality.

Mike

#12 Integration and process

by mpthomas

Thursday October 10th, 2002 2:26 AM

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"I'd miss the features and I really want an integrated (or tightly coupled) e-mail client."

Combining a browser and a mailer into the same executable is a very poor method of integrating them. It causes undue bloat when you use either of them, given the low frequency with which most people want to use both of them at the same time. And it makes programmers lazy in their integration work, as they can just call a function elsewhere in the same executable (like Mozilla does) instead of making the proper IPC calls (like MSIE, Opera, Eudora, Outlook etc do). For example, last I checked, without installing extra hacks <http://protozilla.mozdev.org/> , you *still* can&#8217;t get Mozilla to launch a composition window for a non-Mozilla mailer when clicking on a mailto: link. Conversely, if you have Netscape 7 set up as your chosen mail client and click on a mailto: link in MSIE, you get Netscape's useless "Activation" window, an alert box, the same alert box again (because you didn't read the deceptive wording the first time), a useless browser window, and *then* a composition window. It's a mess.

It's not surprising, then, that very few people use an integrated browser and mailer, and most of those who do are people who don't care so much about either bloat or individual taste -- those using AOL or MSN.

"But, if Phoenix can, in what, 3 weeks, make customizable toolbars, why is mozilla no closer to doing this than they were 3 YEARS AGO?!?!"

Because the development process for Mozilla's front end code is broken. It's broken firstly due to control by Netscape designers who (perhaps because of their lack of experience) cling unreasonably to poor decisions made by their predecessors. (The toolbar layout since Netscape 6.0, and the composition window address fields since Netscape 4.0, are two examples of this.) It's broken secondly by the inevitable suckage effect when too many talking heads (of which I used to be one) get involved in a design. And it's broken thirdly by the expectation that good coders will spend large amounts of their time reviewing other people's mediocre patches instead of producing their own good patches.

"Given the imagination of the Phoenix folks, couldn't they benifit mozilla more by working on the mozilla browser?"

Sorry, that doesn't make much sense. These people are working on Phoenix. Yes, they could benefit Mozilla more (in the short term) by working on Mozilla. But they could also benefit Linux more by working on the Linux kernel, or benefit Apache more by working on Apache.

Like anyone, the Phoenix hackers will work on what they think is the best use of their time. And I doubt that it's the best use of *anyone's* time (except perhaps Netscape employees) to work on the current Mozilla front end.

-- mpt

#13 Re: Integration and process

by asa <asa@mozilla.org>

Thursday October 10th, 2002 11:22 AM

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"For example, last I checked, without installing extra hacks (LINK) , you *still* can&#8217;t get Mozilla to launch a composition window for a non-Mozilla mailer when clicking on a mailto: link."

Last you checked? When was that? If you don't want to use Mozilla Mail then don't install it and when you click a mailto link it will launch your system default mailer (if you have one). If you did install mail and for for some silly reason you use it to read mail but not send mail from mailto: links (why??) then you can add a single line to your prefs file that will cause mailto: links to use your system mailer even though you have Mozilla mail installed.

"Conversely, if you have Netscape 7 set up as your chosen mail client and click on a mailto: link in MSIE, you get Netscape's useless "Activation" window, an alert box, the same alert box again (because you didn't read the deceptive wording the first time), a useless browser window, and *then* a composition window."

If you have Mozilla mail set up as your default mail client and you click a mailto: link in MSIE it launches the Mozilla mail compose window just fine. I guess you have to drag Netscape's activation inconvenience into the thread because without that you couldn't have that all important second example of Mozilla Mail not behaving as the user expected (having two examples always makes your claim _sound_ more credible, even if you have to really stretch for it).

--Asa

#14 Re: Re: Integration and process

by WillyWonka

Thursday October 10th, 2002 1:08 PM

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"If you don't want to use Mozilla Mail then don't install it and when you click a mailto link it will launch your system default mailer (if you have one). If you did install mail and for for some silly reason you use it to read mail but not send mail from mailto: links (why??)"

I've read of people doing this because they wanted the news reader but not the mail client.

#16 Re: Integration and process

by mpthomas

Thursday October 10th, 2002 9:42 PM

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"Last you checked? When was that?"

A couple of months ago. Given my experience of the speed of Mozilla development I'd be pleasantly surprised if it had been fixed since then. And judging by your response, indeed it hasn't been fixed.

"If you don't want to use Mozilla Mail then don't install it and when you click a mailto link it will launch your system default mailer (if you have one)."

Ok, so I decide to use Mozilla Mail. A year later, along comes another mailer (Apple Mail 2.0, let's say), and I want to try it out for a month or so to see if I like it. With any other browser, I'd just have to set the new mailer as my preferred mailer in System Preferences, and that would be all. But to get the Mozilla browser to recognize my new mailer for mailto: links, I have to *reinstall Mozilla*. This, of course, is about 364 days after I deleted the Mozilla installer, so I have to download it again.

And if, after a month, it turns out that I don't like Apple Mail after all, I have to reinstall Mozilla yet again to resume using Mozilla Mail. Oh, the hilarity.

-- mpt

#17 Re: Re: Integration and process

by lsiden

Tuesday August 12th, 2003 8:12 PM

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"If you did install mail and for for some silly reason you use it to read mail but not send mail from mailto: links (why??) then you can add a single line to your prefs file that will cause mailto: links to use your system mailer even though you have Mozilla mail installed."

Whenever I click on a mail link Firebird displays a msg that reads: "mailto is not a registered protocol". What can I put in prefs.js to make it "registered". I use Evolution to read and send mail.