MozillaZine

Phoenix 0.2 soars into view

Tuesday October 1st, 2002

Phoenix 0.2 is out. Give it a spin and let the developers know what you think here and at the new mozillaZine Phoenix Forum.

#1 Wow

by exotrip

Tuesday October 1st, 2002 10:19 PM

I had no idea Mozilla could be turned into this. I have made the switch to Phoenix. What an amazing browser, already.

And for the obligatory feature request:

I know the work to reimplement prefs is underway, but please don't forget about user_pref("browser.urlbar.clickSelectsAll", false); It is not a big deal, but I find it to be a convenient pref.

That is pretty much the only thing I miss from Mozilla.

#2 wow! phoenix just keeps getting better n better

by Kromatic

Tuesday October 1st, 2002 10:24 PM

wow! I'am very impressed as how this browser is evolving so quickly for the better! I love this browser....

#3 No typeahead find

by edmz

Tuesday October 1st, 2002 10:54 PM

Just download Phoenix 0.2 and Typeahead Find is not working. Is it necessary to enable it on prefs.js ?

#6 Re: No typeahead find

by asa

Tuesday October 1st, 2002 11:09 PM

It's broken. It will be fixed for 0.3 (hopefully).

--Asa

#4 wow! phoenix just keeps getting better n better

by Kromatic

Tuesday October 1st, 2002 10:57 PM

wow! I'am very impressed as how this browser is evolving so quickly for the better! I love this browser....

#5 Very Nice

by joedirt

Tuesday October 1st, 2002 11:04 PM

Nothing but great things to say about Phoenix....Blows Mozilla away and it's only at 0.2!! The guys behind it are really doing a awesome job. Been using it steadily since the first build was posted and it's just been getting better and better...and getting better QUICKLY. The toolbar customization just plain kicks ass...and everything just seems like it's going in the right direction....user friendly, speedy, etc. Not one feature I dislike. Seems like the Phoenix boys are into this project and really care about making it good. Anyway, just want to say that Phoenix rules and thank the boys for their time and effort in making a great browser.

#40 Toolbar customization could be even better:

by rcmoz

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 8:58 PM

Couple minor nits:

Please add symmetry to customize dialog. Like Mac IE: http://www.creativepro.com/img/story/img_6867e.gif (screenshot)

And what's the difference between a flexible space and a space? Anyone else think these spaces look out of place?

--

I think Orbit fits Phoenix fine, but for those who prefer something less nuclear ... wait till Gashu releases Lo-Fi for Phoenix: http://www.gashu.org/mozilla/

#42 Re: Toolbar customization could be even better:

by asa

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 11:50 PM

a space is a certain specific width. a flexible space is just that, flexible, expanding to fill the available space.

--Asa

#54 If you removed the spaces, how many people would..

by rcmoz

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 8:41 PM

Why would you need more space than a separator gives?

Are spaces redundant or do they have some hidden purpose that I'm too confused to comprehend?

#55 Re: If you removed the spaces, how many people wou

by asa

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 11:07 PM

They perform much of the same task as a separator but they don't contain the vertical line. I happen to like about an inch of space between my navigation buttons (back, forward, reload, and stop), my sidebar toggle buttons (bookmarks, downloads, and history), and my misc. buttons (new tab, new window, and print). It looks like http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/asa/phoenix/spaces.png If I used multiple separators it would look pretty silly http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/asa/phoenix/separators.png

And the spacer alone is also a pain. If I have a group of buttons at the far left of my toolbar and I want the throbber to the far right of my toolbar I don't want to have to add 50 spaces or even more separators.

--Asa

#7 Love the size of it all

by michaelH

Tuesday October 1st, 2002 11:45 PM

It's amazing, Everything these days is increasing in size, but Phoenix seems to be decreasing! 7624k for the win binary is not bad at all. Keep up that code cutting! :D I'll try it as soon as my 56k line is done with it!

#8 Re: Love the size of it all

by asa

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 12:05 AM

We dropped more than that but we added the talkback crash feedback tool to help gather stability information. That was about 500K. Without that change we would have trimmed about 1.2MB from the windows static size. And we're not done yet. We're gonna get this thing as small as is possible. I think we can get under 7MB. I'd love to see us hit 6MB but I don't know if that's possible.

--Asa

#60 Memory and CPU footprint?

by DavidGerard

Sunday October 6th, 2002 3:54 PM

The binary is smaller. But what's it like when running? How does the memory and CPU footprint compare to trunk Mozilla?

#9 Sweet!

by uggi

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 1:35 AM

Compared to 0.1, this is something I can actually use! The sidebar is imho way better than Mozilla's, I might just start using it.

#10 This is so, so good

by TonyG

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 1:59 AM

Just grabbed Phoenix and all I can say is that this is an awesome piece of software. Of course it has superb heritage in Mozilla Major but nevertheless, it rocks.

The funny thing is i have got so used to using Chatzilla and Mozilla Mail that I have to run both to do a days work. Be nice If I could run mail and Chatzilla as separate apps :) - I know there is vMinotaur but there doesnt seem to be a download point for it on the mozilla.org page. Pretty sure there isnt a way to run Chatzilla on its own.

Once again, great job to all involved. Heres looking forward to 0.3

#11 diff Galeon Phoenix

by svu

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 2:16 AM

Could please anyone tell me in which way phoenix is better than galeon? BTW, why don't they have any screenshots on their site?

#20 Re: diff Galeon Phoenix

by oliversl

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 8:16 AM

Galeon is better than Phoenix right now, but Phoenix aims to be multi-platform. I have tryied Phoenix and looks very nice, but still does not see the need to have a Phoenix while MailNews has tons and tons of Bugs. Maybe they are paving the way to something bigger? Who knows! :-)

#59 Yes, I have switched.

by ronbu

Sunday October 6th, 2002 12:14 AM

I was using Beonex, and even though it is a great browser it tended to run out of memory on my computer a little to fast. The new release of Phoenix runs longer on my 128 megs of RAM, before it runs out of memory. I could have 34 tabs with mp3.com artists pages open at the same time on Phoenix. I'm looking forward to 0.3.

#23 Re: diff Galeon Phoenix

by asa

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 11:35 AM

Galeon is a great browser but there are a few reasons I prefere Phoenix. First, Galeon doesn't run on Windows. Also, Galeon doesn't support my favorite Mozilla add-ons: Mouse Gestures, Preferences Toolbar and the DOM Inspector. And Galeon doesn't have quicksearch in bookmarks which I have come to rely on heavily.

Galeon has plenty of features that Phoenix doesn't but it's just not the browser for me. That's not to say that I'm not really pleased to see a Mozilla-based browser doing so well. Galeon is a great browser.

--Asa

#29 Re: Re: diff Galeon Phoenix

by brad_quinn

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 1:17 PM

Your version has the DOM inspector? When can I get it?

#30 Re: Re: Re: diff Galeon Phoenix

by asa

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 3:21 PM

Go to Joe Hewitt's mozEngineer page at http://joehewitt.com/mozilla/mozengineer/

#12 Really nice!

by viggen

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 2:19 AM

I Downloaded the 0.1 version last week and has now updated to 0.2, I didnīt believe such an evolution was possible on this kind of a project. Phoenix is now my first choise of browser on my desktop.

One thing i also like is the look of the new bookmarks sidebar tab. Good luck in the future to all of you who have contributed to phoenix and hope 0.3 will come as fast as the last milestone did.

#13 Question about the sidebar...

by jonik

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 2:28 AM

Is there a keyboard shortcut for toggling sidebar on/off? F9 doesn't seem to work...

#14 Re: Question about the sidebar...

by asa

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 2:41 AM

Yes, each sidebar has a shortcut. Ctrl+E, B and H for downloads, bookmarks and history.

--Asa

#15 XUL: full support for Mozilla XPIs?

by IriseLenoir

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 3:47 AM

Someone asked what Phoenix would have better than Galeon. XUL. I like fast native UI and GTK2 is cool... Galeon 2 looks really promessing, but I have to admit that for a browser, XUL gives an immense advantage. Easy to code third party extentions. By looking at mozdev.org we already have tons of inovating projects in the making... tagzilla, optimoz (gestures are now in Galeon, but Pie Menus seem promessing), composite, newsalert, annozilla, etc. All things that theoretically could be implemented in Galeon, but that one team would never all do on it's own, let alone come up with all those ideas. Making third party apps easy makes Mozilla an 'experimentation' platform like no other and I belive the futur revolutionary new ways of communicating via computers will come from that. It is THE feature of an XUL browser... but it's currently unclear whether Phoenix will be fully compatible with Mozilla XPIs. It currently only support a few 'Extentions' modified for it. I understand it's in first stages and compatibility problems are to be expected, but if Phoenix is not fully compatible eventually, it will have no reason of existing because simply for speed Galeon, K-meleon and Chimera will always be faster anyway. In other words, I think this should be THE top priority, will it be so?

#16 If you like Phoenix...

by Blake

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 6:30 AM

...please help us out by submitting a story to Slashdot about the 0.2 release. Slashdot story rejections are often arbitrary, and it takes a number of submissions to get something posted. Thanks!

#17 Phoenix w/ Minotaur

by joedirt

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 7:54 AM

Any thoughts/plans about Minotaur being an extention for Phoenix? Just asking for people like my pop who have been using Netscape and it's mail client for ages. He tried, and didn't like Mozilla/Netscape7, but I think he'll like Phoenix and he won't use Outlook, so a Minotaur extention would be nice for him.

#18 Phoenix w/ Minotaur

by joedirt

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 7:56 AM

Any thoughts/plans about Minotaur being an extention for Phoenix? Just asking for people like my pop who have been using Netscape and it's mail client for ages. He tried, and didn't like Mozilla/Netscape7, but I think he'll like Phoenix and he won't use Outlook, so a Minotaur extention would be nice for him.

#19 Sorry about the double post

by joedirt

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 7:57 AM

:-)

#21 Tab order when closing tabs..

by edmz

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 10:37 AM

Could this be fixed like in mozilla ? WHen closing a tab, focus goes to the tab on the right.

#43 Re: Tab order when closing tabs..

by masi

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 1:30 AM

I agree.

Could we have it like that? Or just another f*** pref? ;-)

#44 Re: Re: Re: result....:(

by darinf

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 2:35 AM

I believe that the tab-closing order is intentional. It was changed in 1.1 to be right-to-left, as a fix to a bug in 1.0.

#62 Re: Tab order when closing tabs..

by vvenka1

Monday October 7th, 2002 9:20 PM

I would rather prefer that the focus goes to the last active tab rather than the one on the right or left. This comes handy if OptiMoz is installed.

IE_Killer = Phoenix + OptiMoz;

#22 Top bar still shows 0.1

by edmz

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 10:41 AM

..

#24 No proxy setting = no good.

by cginzel

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 11:47 AM

Until there is an easy way to set the proxy, I won't be using it...

#25 Re: No proxy setting = no good.

by joedirt

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 12:19 PM

Um....have you used 0.2 yet? The proxy configuration menu is back in the preferences.

#31 Re: Re: No proxy setting = no good.

by cginzel

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 4:10 PM

Ah! I installed over the previous install. When I deleted the 0.1 installation and then installed 0.2 the preferences were as you say... thanks!

#27 Re: No proxy setting = no good.

by Blake

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 12:26 PM

There is. Open the Preferences dialog and select Connections.

#26 What's all the hoopla

by robdogg

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 12:24 PM

While Phoenix may turn out to be a great browser, I don't really see what all the hoopla is about in this release. It isn't much faster, taking almost as long to start as Mozilla. In addition, when you click on a tab group, it adds tabs rather than overwriting them, leaving as a result the first tab empty and unused. To be fair, Moz does the same thing (so I use Moz 1.1a - the last milestone to have the proper tabbing behaviour).

#47 define "proper"

by bmacfarland

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 5:50 AM

I'd rather have it add tabs to the end instead of overwriting everything. The first time I tried to load tabs (back in Multizilla v0.20 days), I lost where I was on about 6 webpages. But it's still not right to me to have the first tab blank. If I were the developer I'd put in logic that says, "If I'm openning a new group of tabs, and if I'm on the first tab, and if it's blank, just open the first web page here and continue to open the rest in new tabs."

#49 Re: define "proper"

by robdogg

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 11:00 AM

I would actually like a pref setting that defines the behaviour. This way you and I both are mollified. There is a meta bug in Moz bugzilla that discusses this but no one seems to be doing anything.

#28 What I would like to see with customized toolbars

by cgonyea

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 1:10 PM

I think it would be neat to have smaller versions of the bookmarks, downloads, and history buttons that you can put on your personal toolbar without stretching that particular toolbar out so you can open their sidebar with a click. Note, this definitely does not have to be manditory (hence customizable toolbars), but that would be definitely nice so my navigation bar isn't so cluttered.

#33 Re: What I would like to see with customized toolb

by mozineAdmin

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 4:59 PM

It seems like this would be possible - if not with the default, then with another theme...

#34 Re: What I would like to see with customized toolb

by asa

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 5:09 PM

If you use small icons (a checkbox in the customize dialog) they you get small icons everywhere and those buttons fit in on the bookmarks toolbar a lot better. I'm discussing with the developers making the bookmarks toolbar force small icons even if you've selected large for the other toolbars.

--Asa

#46 Re: What I would like to see with customized toolb

by mpercy

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 4:30 AM

It would be cool if there were two types of toolbars which could co-exist: large and small toolbars. Their size could be set per-toolbar, making all toolbars a generic type with large/small properties. This would also be nice for application builders/Mozilla embedders to use from the Phoenix toolkit as a generic widget.

If all toolbars (including the tab toolbar) were inherited from the same class, it would probably be easier to add support for grippies and "tearable" toolbars, and other useful features becoming common UI. Of course, talking about it is easy, I don't know how hard it is to do to wrap all that stuff in XUL...

By the way, I must say I switched between Mozilla and IE back and forth for two years... After using Phoenix 0.1 and now especially 0.2, I am totally hooked on Phoenix! (whoa... slogan anyone? ;) Beautiful work, I have never been more fond of a browser, everything is just so easy to do and so damn "right".

Regards to the developers, Mike Percy

#53 Re: Re: What I would like to see with customized t

by cgonyea

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 3:19 PM

Sounds what I am looking for asa. Hopefully this makes it into the 0.3 release! Phoenix is exactly what I've wanted in a web browser and this is the happiest time I've had "surfing" the web in a long time.

#32 Toolbars at the Bottom

by LPetrazickis

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 4:47 PM

Argh. The Address Bar/Location Bar/Whatchamacallit must be at the bottom of the screen. Opera 4 was the only browser that correctly placed it there, although Opera 5 and 6 still leave that as an option.

I dare you to add movable toolbars even if they only move to the two or four sides of the screen.:)

#35 Re: Not good, but . . .

by D00msday

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 6:13 PM

Don't go "dare" my friend.

#56 Re: Toolbars at the Bottom

by jsebrech

Friday October 4th, 2002 6:53 AM

Other than it being a cool thing to do, why would you want to have your location bar at the bottom of the browser window?

#57 Re: Re: Toolbars at the Bottom

by LPetrazickis

Friday October 4th, 2002 3:59 PM

1. After the first day, it just seems more natural. After all, that's where captions go and that's what the location field is.

2. Always going to the top for the toolbar and to the bottom for the location bar (and to the side for the window/tab bar as I have it set up) draws a distinction between the two and probably makes it easier to aim.:)

#36 Bye-Bye Mozilla

by myklgrant

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 6:55 PM

As soon as I find a mail client I can live with Mozilla loses a user to Phoenix (ie. me). It is so much faster. I can do without composer and Chatzilla but I kind of got used to Mail/Address.

#37 Re: Bye-Bye Mozilla

by asa

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 7:01 PM

Mozilla developers are hard at work making a stand alone mail client just for you (and me and other Phoenix users that still love mozilla mail).

--Asa

#41 Re: Re: Bye-Bye Mozilla

by macpeep

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 11:39 PM

Excellent! I'm very interested, seeing as the current quality of Mail & News is the only reason I'm still "stuck" with Netscape 4 (for email) and IE. What's the project name for this and where can I go to get more information? Will it be based on the current Mail & News app? How about the UI?

#45 Look at the Minotaur-project

by nirwana

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 4:16 AM

Just have a look at this Minotaur-project: http://www.mozilla.org/mailnews/minotaur/index.html

#50 Re: Re: Bye-Bye Mozilla

by davedenis

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 11:31 AM

Asa, can you point me to where this is under development?

#51 Re: Bye-Bye Mozilla

by ndebord

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 11:44 AM

Shrug. I don't want to have to wait for Minotaur or Mozill'a email client. What I want is the ability to roll my own email client with Phoenix. Sort of what Pegasus did with its own MAPI.DLL that allowed you to use IE3.03 with Pegasus or any other email client that used mapi, so you could, if you wanted to, used Eudora Lite or Foxmail 2.1 with IE 3.03. Now that would be a feature to ensure my loyalty.

#52 Re: Re: Bye-Bye Mozilla

by asa

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 12:10 PM

So do it :) Roll your own email client with Phoenix. mozdev.org will provide you with the tools and hosting you need.

--Asa

#58 Re: Re: Re: Bye-Bye Mozilla

by ndebord

Saturday October 5th, 2002 10:41 PM

Afraid I don't have the time to do amateur programming. So can't roll my own email client with Phoenix.

FWIW, here is how Pegasus did it with IE 3.03. I just substituted Foxmail 2.1 for Pegasus. The modified MAPI.DLL is readily available from Pegasus URLs.

;[Mailer] ;Program=C:\winpmail ;ToSyntax=-t %s [Mailer] Program=C:\FOXMAIL\FOXMAIL.EXE ToSyntax=%s

#38 does it have mozilla email support?

by ph1nn

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 7:45 PM

nuff said.

ill try it anyway, but if it doesnt, then i gotta use a different program :-/

#39 Plugins

by myklgrant

Wednesday October 2nd, 2002 7:46 PM

Just a note on plugins: I copied wholesale the plugins file from my mozilla1.1 file to the plugins file in Phoenix and they all work like a charm. I am using Phoenix under linux and have Java and Flash installed resident and Quicktime, WMP and Shockwave through Crossover. Didn't even have to reinstall anything - it all works.

#48 .7

by JoeCool

Thursday October 3rd, 2002 9:32 AM

Let's just see how long they take to get from .6 to .7.

:)

#61 pop-up

by huggie

Monday October 7th, 2002 2:11 AM

Is it just me? Or is it that www.nytimes.com managed to get through pop up filter?

#63 Link toolbar? (Aka "site navigation toolbar")

by jor

Tuesday October 8th, 2002 8:30 AM

A shame to see this missing in Phoenix... is it on the list to be re-added, or is there some xul package I can install to get it working?

#64 Test

by kerz

Thursday October 10th, 2002 9:25 PM

Test