Phoenix Nightly Builds Now Available

Thursday September 5th, 2002

Nightly builds of Phoenix are now available for download from Builds are currently only available for Linux and Windows.

Phoenix (formerly known as mozilla/browser) is a redesign of the Mozilla browser component. It is not related to Project Piglet (also previously known as mozilla/browser), which was forked from pre-Phoenix mozilla/browser code.

Thanks to Asa Dotzler for the news.

UPDATE! Also check out the Phoenix project page which has some more information about the project.

#49 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bugs

by asa <>

Friday September 6th, 2002 7:54 PM

You are replying to this message

This is getting silly but for silly's sake:

"As you surely know, it is quite possible to have a closed project that is 99% Mozilla."

Not at all. You have a project, call it RebelZilla, and it lives in CVS (like Phoenix). To make RebelZilla you pull Mozilla and you pull a different throbber. The only file that distinguishes RebelZilla from Mozilla is the throbber. If you do not accept patches, or bugs or restrict cvs access to the RebelZilla throbber I can still impact your project in a very big way. The overwhelming majority of your project is as open to me as Mozilla. I have cvs access that lets me change anything in Mozilla and those changes will affect RebelZilla with exactly the same impact as Mozilla. Your project may be "closed" by some your definition but it's not really closed if I can rewrite 99% of it with or without your consent, is it?

I don't believe that it is possible to have a 'closed' project that is licensed under the MPL (and friends), lives in cvs and is 99% comprised of Mozilla code. That is, unless you define 'closed' to mean "not 100% open to 100% of the people". And if you define closed like that then Mozilla is surely closed too.

But that's not really the point. Phoenix is the better example than RebelZilla. Phoenix was never closed. One tiny part of Phoenix, the front end, was being developed under open source licenses in public and participation was not being actively solicited for that tiny piece while they got it up and running. There have been over 400 people, since Phoenix's first day of existence, with cvs access to the overwhelming majority of Phoenix's code. There is a public Bugzilla where you have been able to report bugs against the overwhelming majority of Phoenix's functionality. There are public newsgroups where you could discuss almost everything that is phoenix. The only thing that didn't have Bugzilla component and wasn't open to every cvs account holder was the Phoenix front end. And the Phoenix front end wasn't ready for review and participation. Now it's almost ready and the Phoenix folks will start to solicit bug reports and have already been soliciting more developer involvement.

But even if they weren't asking for bug reports (and they are. that the readme didn't get updated as soon as I found the time to create some Bugzilla components was an oversight.) even if they weren't asking for bug reports Phoenix would still be an open project. Mozilla isn't closed because someone working on a patch to the layout engine isn't ready for review and super review (feedback) yet. Mozilla isn't closed because someone's working on an experimental branch and not ready for bug reports. Mozilla isn't closed because someone says the work they have in their tree isn't ready to be a part of any binary yet. Mozilla isn't closed because only some of the people with CVS are allowed to check into NSPR. It seems to me that

Phoenix wasn't ready for feedback the day it was started. No patch is. No feature is. No product is. The code was made available the second the first patch was checked into the tree. Now it's progressed far enough that it's (almost) ready for bug reports. It does contain some files for which cvs access is restricted to a small group of people (so does the Mozilla browser you've been using all this time) but that number has been increasing since day 1. The project is just starting. Give it some time.