I personally think that the nightlies are a great place to test out features that are nearing completion (like the link bar and the tabbed browsing)on a crowd that are a little more tolerant of a few more quirks in exchange for more cool new things. I would love to see the DOM Inspector turned on, and am loving the tab's and the link bar, for instance.

Hrm, that is a good question.

I guess it depends on how it effects the build size?

At first it is tempting to say, throw in everything but the kitchen sink, as the more eyeballs testing that code, the better it will get. But if the download is too large, it will discourage more eyeballs from downloading or testing anything at all.

Would it be problematic to create multiple builds, with one 'minimal', and one 'full'?

Is the nightly build mechanism the same one used for Tinderbox? I would think you would want to run as all-encompasing a build as possible through Tinderbox, just to make sure everything builds and smoketests. Could you run a 'minimal' build as a secondary build only after success with the 'full' one?

Hell, can't we just get a Beowulf cluster of build boxen and build for each of the full cartesian product gamut of build options? :-)

...because I think there are many people willing to use embedded debug/performance tools. Making a debug build needs a certain infrastructure that is not always available for home users.

But there might be an issue here, regarding to the bloat that might be induced.Builds might be bloated in a way that we can't monitor improvements on footprint and performance.

Hi

I'm not sore how mozilla-installer/mozilla components works but I would like to see all available components in nightly build but broken up so that I can install just the components that I would like to test out. In the list over components that are possible to install are all the components and some of them are listed as developing that means buggy, incomplete and may crash you browser.

Thie componet list would look some thing like this:

Mozilla Browser Mozilla Mail/News Java-script debugger (developing) DOM-Inspector (developing) :

This way more people (I expect) will try out the latest components to see if they work.

I say turn it on for nightly's, and selectively choose what will be available for milestones, depending on the stability of said component.

That being said, I'm totally hooked on optimoz - throw it in an turn it on!!!

I'd really prefer it if everything was turned on. But at the very least, the other main components in the suite (mailnews, composer, and I'd say chatzilla too) should be included, because they tend to need more testing than the browser.

Unlike with milestones, the bugginess of a feature should be a reason *for* inclusion in nightlies.

The nightly builds are for early adopters, developers and testers. I'd say they want easy access to everything related to Mozilla. However, milestones are for regular users and they will only be annoyed by large downloads of stuff they will mostly never touch. So I suggest to make developer stuff like debuggers, test urls and so on optional in the milestones. And as discussed earlier, a build with all the developer stuff removed might as well be presented as Mozilla 1.0 so that we can all move on with our lives. I've felt Mozilla is close to a release for nearly two years now, somebody please stop the madness.

My opinion is that they should only be disabled if it would give a considerable increase in speed -- which I doubt it does! But if that's the case, nightlies should only include the browser. I don't think the download size is important at all, since 10MB is nothing.

I think, it's better to have chance to download browser as one main package and other as optional add ons. I can test nightly builds, but I'm limited by the link speed, so if it grows, I can't be downloading it often.

OK, the general concensus seems to be that some people want everything and some don't.

My humble suggestion is that the sea builds include in them things: which it has been proven that people want/that mozilla.org think are good for people

For other things, these should be available in the sea installer in the custom option as downloadable items like what happens with the net installer.

So, In conclusion, everything should be built, but not everything should be a part of the default download and the sea installer should be able to download and install the non-sea modules.

Hmmm, did any of that make any sense?

If you can make an xpi out of the stuff nobody should be offended. They can always go the installer way and choose which components to include in their download. I've been using nightlies for a year now and I have never even heard of the DOM Inspector. I would like to try it out, go ahead, include every bit of code there is available, you can always turn stuff off for the milestones and the branch builds.

A few months ago, I had hope of getting my Jabberzilla instant-messenger into Mozilla 1.0. I talked to some Moz people at the O'Reilly Conference (including Mitchell) with no answer or even a point in the right direction. I filed a bug to get CVS access with no response.

So anyway, I have given up on the idea. Development of the client has slowed, and life goes on...

Hi...

I am working in a XML generation from browser to a server using a DTD. How can I access nsIDTD interface or something like this?

I'd like to see MathML in the nightly builds even though for it to work properly you need the correct fonts and I believe that an agreement to distribute these hasn't been released yet some people will have the fonts already, but may not want to build their own nightlies.

I'd definitely like to see the document inspector shipped too.

There may be a case for doing a browser only zip/.tar.gz for those who don't like installers but want a minimal build.

One thing that should be done is to improve the links on the Mozilla.org website, these only link to the zipped builds, there should either be a link to a page like the one used by the milestones to show all the different download available, then more people may get to know about the installer builds.

[OT] Also we need the link element on Mozilla.org ;) - that's just a consideration for the new site tho.

Is composer so tightly integrated in browser that it can\\\'t be removed? To me, it seems like a good deal of bloat for those who do not use it and this has always baffled me as to why it is automatically included. For me it is my most UNused feature of the suite and although I tend to download nightly builds regardless of bloat, I would love it if this component were optional. Does anybody know how much baggage it adds to the package?

Is composer so tightly integrated in browser that it can\\\'t be removed? To me, it seems like a good deal of bloat for those who do not use it and this has always baffled me as to why it is automatically included. For me it is my most UNused feature of the suite and although I tend to download nightly builds regardless of bloat, I would love it if this component were optional. Does anybody know how much baggage it adds to the package?

SImple as that

I am sorry for posting this here, but it could fit into the topic: as I now have a reasonable connection at school, I get a Windows nightly almost daily. But the bad thing is, that all the additional goodies are packed into the mozilla directory, not into the user profile! So I have to (if I want to have a rather clean _install_ of mozilla) remove the mozilla directory, then install the nightly and _re-download_ all of the goodies - these are OptiMoz and sometimes the Toy Factory Theme. This is also really bad on Linux, as I must start Mozilla as root to install anything XPI-like!! Can someone give me a few hints on how to avoid this? Are there any bugs filled for this problem? Thank you.

I think Moz/Netscape is quickly becoming a web developers browser of choice, as opposed to the consumer oriented MSIE. As a browser in use by developers, i think it appropriate to include developer tools like the javascript debugger and the DOM browser. Anything geared toward making our life easier should be thrown into the nightlies for us to review.

The nightlies is where the "stable" experimenting should take place. Try out new interfaces and tools on a larger audience. It, and the milestones, should be examples of what Beonix and Netscape have available for their builds. If they don't want something, they can remove it. But it's a good way of showing what it can do.

People downloading the nightlies should know enough about it to know how to remove the packages already. There is already stub installer available for people in europe who have to pay by the minute. I do think that more of the tools should be listed under the custom portion of the installer though.

As for the interface, I'm starting to think that its leaning towards developers, which is fine because I am one, but I know a lot of people out there are not, and they outnumber me... so there should be an option to change the interface based on if you are a developer or if you are an end user.

An end user doesn't want a javascript debugger, hell if there is a javascript error, they probably don't even want to know what it is with any detail, they just want to know it's there. If a page doesn't display properly all an end user wants to know, is if they messed up something on their side or if it's on the server side.

The Link^H^H^H^HSite Navagation Toolbar, I feel, helps out both users and developers. It's interface still needs a little cleaning, but it will get there. (I'm biased though, my icons made it into the classic version of the link toolbar) The tabs I think help out the advanced end user. People who don't know a lot about computers have a hard time understanding "layers". Windows "dissapear" on them and stuff. Take a look at word, there is probably a reason that they disabled MDI windows from their newer versions. And there is probably a reason you don't see mdi windows on the mac.

And that is all I have to say about that ;)

I have no clue why we have that non functional domviewer included and there is even a need to discuss the shipping of the working dom-inspector

I think the biggest win would be to include all the extensions that work relatively well, make them optional in the install. And perhaps still offer a bare bones installer that only offers the minimal components. Getting visibility for some of the underused extensions, might allow third party vendors to see and use applications they did not know about. Then we could end up with more third party vendors who are excited about our application suite, and we might just find some new vendors.

Joseph Elwell.

Is Java included in the builds? I haven't found a setting to turn it on?

Is Java included in the builds? I haven't found a setting to turn it on?

I'd like the option to install plug-ins at the time of install - with an install procedure that works.

I'd like to see it handle onmouseover and onmouseout again. I think the Chatzilla thing should not be included by default.

that Moz would see my system prefs for what is used for what. I am in Mac OS X and have Moz set for browsing and Mail for emailing. Unfortunately, I must select 'copy email address' whenever I click on an email link. I don't care if it is there or not, as long as it could realize there are other email apps, via the system prefs or a pulldown menu in Moz's prefs. This could be like the search engine prefs, but it would be 'use (whatever) for email...'

I fully agree with everyone who wants says that Mozilla is the developers browser. I was very excited with the inclusion of the JavaScript debugger, which I didn't even know existed! Shows you how much I cruise the mozilla web site :-)

Anyway, I like the inclusion of tools in the browser to assist in debugging a web page. This would help ensure that we are properly designing our web pages. Now, one could argue that an editor could perform the same function, but what if you're working with a language such as PHP or Cold Fusion? These are server side technologies, thus the actual page presented in the browser may not be what you think it should be. With the debugger, I can now better debug my applications because it will show me where the error occurs in the JavaScript instead of getting a line number and having to find it in a Cold Fusion page where the line numbers probably won't match.

Also, any functionality that directly relates to a standard, such as the links bar, should be included by default. This also includes MathML and SVG. I personally have been wanting to delve into using both technologies, however I currently have to ensure that user's have the appropriate plugins. Since these are web standards, I would like to see them as supported natively in browsers.

As a final note, I love the tabs!!!!

Any development tools I fully welcome and would make my job a lot easier. I would love to see an option css files for the page like the js files in the javascript debugger or something that shows bugs in the HTML like the javascript tool (I\\\'m not sure if the DOM viewer would do this or not).

It is my believe that all the components should be included. There is already seperate xpi for each component in the net install builds on the ftp site. I think that these xpis should be downloadable manually as not everyone likes the net-installer. If they are already downloadable manually (and installable after that), instructions should be given.

The other thing is that many of the "backend" components for these "addons" are not in these xpis but in the main download. Shouldn't it be possible to put those in the xpis as well? I'm not sure why the "backend" stuff is not seperate, but I believe with some work it should be possible.

Just noticed on the latest nightly - The new mail notification on Windows now doesn't use the system beep by default but uses the sound you set in the control panel for "New Mail Notification". This is great, I know know when I've got mail, rather than having to wonder if it's one of 4 apps that regularly use the system beep.

hello every one! do you think generate more nightly builds, that, but for the standard ones we could get from here every day, compile more those contain the additional packages, is a good idea?

i had the aqua theme in the previous build now the mozila tell me that the theme is too old and if i want to erase it ... pls help i want my aqua ,littlezilla back

Personally I would like a slimmed down option, for people like me who tend to be on the lower end of things (300Mhz Intel). Overall I don't think it matters. As of right now I have a hard enough time using Mozilla. Viewing pages in Japanese runs my system out of memory usually within 10 to 15 minutes (and in my opinion 128 Megs of RAM should be sufficient for ANY program, I don't see any excuse)

You can get the nightlys by net-installer if you only want the pieces.

I download a talkback zip every few days. I want the *lot*.

If you get nightlys, you're up for testing ...

Even though the current nightlys are so far beyond 0.9.4 that I'm close to recommending to people to get nightlys rather than milestones. These may be betas, but they're damned solid. (Even if Mozilla is still unbelievably fat in the arse, it's a fairly *stable* arse ...)

Perhaps the 'Are you sure you want to do this crazy thing?!' dialogue box when you go to download a nightly should be brought back ;-)

Could we get rid of the testing tools (such as testlibxpnet.exe) on the Windows build in the zip build files. Conservatively, they take half a megabyte. I have a modem, and it almost takes an hour to download each build. I would like to lean it up a bit. Could we get rid of those tools? Are they necessary in this stage of development?

At last, url bar taking focus after using a bookmark has been fixed! (see http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62765 ) This alone could be a strong reason for using current nightlies over the upcoming 0.9.5 milestone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/11/technology/circuits/11STAT.html

1.- It is that what we will have after intall and intall *.xpi files!, i ve just installed some demo of a Calculator... .I do not know how to uninstal it,

2.- Is the instant messenger window a I.M. only or is the Sidebar?

3.- i think that u have to start to work in a Mozilla OS, or somethig like it... ...i have a lot of good ideas about it.

Lancer@tie.cl

*install

2.- *...window "is" a I.M...

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Demons!

Mozilla and Netscape 6.x lack today of good debugging utilities (JavaScript console is very poor): - JavaScript Debugger - DOM Inspector etc. - XML/XHTML/HTML debugging parsers (it would help to code W3C compliant pages and clean the web) - Tools to help develop and debugging of XPCOM and Plug-ins

Chat is not very important, but it would be usefull to the end user.