MozillaZine

Modern 3 and Autocomplete Test Build Available

Monday April 23rd, 2001

Asa Dotzler writes:
"For those of you who are interested in helping us test new features (or just like to get a sneak preview of things to come) there is an experimental Windows build with the new autocomplete widget and the new modern theme available at ftp.mozilla.org. Please post theme feedback and autcomplete issues here until it is checked into the trunk."

Joe Hewitt wants to also let folks know that the new skin is only half way done, and to be gentle on him...


#1 Awesome!

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday April 23rd, 2001 9:49 PM

Reply to this message

I'm running the experimental build now. It has a few kinks, but that's why it's considered experimental, but the new autocomplete simply ROCKS and Modern is finally at the color shades that I REALLY like.

I can't wait til they smooth things out and land it in the nightlies!

Alex

#2 Auto.... Scrolling and Italic

by AlMalossi <AlMalossi@gmx.net>

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:04 PM

Reply to this message

Yes, the autocomplete is a nice tool now.

I'm a little bit unsure if the scrolling has to continue (when i reach the last entry) on the top again. ...at least it impress with it speed while doing it.

One small point: I don't like it that the html-titles are in italic. Italic doesn't render nicely on most systems. Maybe we could be brave and try a normal (non-italic) form in a different color.

a nice dark-gray-blue or something else that fit with the new modern3

#3 When can we expect this?

by theuiguy

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:10 PM

Reply to this message

Will they make it into 0.9? It looks like bug 43189 <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43189> is the autocomplete widget. Targeted for 0.9.1. I'm looking forward to it.

I'm guessing bug 74641 <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74641> is the one to watch for the new modern theme. It's 0.9.1, too.

#8 Re: When can we expect this?

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:35 PM

Reply to this message

Both the new modern skin and the new autocomplete are very BIG changes. Right now we are in the 0.9 freeze, which means no new features or functionality will make it into 0.9, only fixes for recent blockers and critical bugs, and minor fixes are usually acceptable, just nothing big.

So, as the target milestone says, expect both by 0.9.1.

Alex

#16 in the nightlies right after 0.9's release ???

by RvR <mozillazine@mozillazine-fr.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 1:59 AM

Reply to this message

am i correct ? i suppose that those changes will land right after the release of 0.9, in the move toward 0.9.1. i hope so, at least !)

#49 Re: in the nightlies right after 0.9's release ???

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:42 AM

Reply to this message

Yes, these changes are far too drastic to make it into 0.9. So in the nightlies sometime after 0.9 branches and 0.9.1 development starts, based on the bug info.

0.9 already contains a significant number of changes that landed in the past few weeks, including the new image library, the new cache, outliner (although there are still areas that hasn't been changed to take advantage of it yet), and PSM2.

Alex

#4 new theme

by wtmcgee

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:21 PM

Reply to this message

i really really like the new theme.. its looking great. im going to hammer on this bad boy for the rest of the night and see what bugs can be found.

#5 Autocomplete

by mrOpie

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:22 PM

Reply to this message

The new autocomplete functionality rocks, but missing one key feature... TAB support. Tab should cycle through the list of matching entries... Otherwise, it's great!

Justin

#94 Re: Autocomplete

by ogiesen

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 1:21 AM

Reply to this message

TAB to cycle through entries in a dropdown? I don't know of a single app that behaves this way. TAB should accept the selected entry and jump to the next tab-stopped widget.

Oliver

#6 Screenshots

by AlMalossi <AlMalossi@gmx.net>

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:26 PM

Reply to this message

<http://www.phj.productions.de/moz/modern3_exp.png>

<http://www.phj.productions.de/moz/modern3_ac.png>

screenshot in png-24bit (...hope that the colors are still true) for the non-windows users outside.

#7 Linux users

by redpants

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:34 PM

Reply to this message

I'm running the new chrome simply by replacing my current build's chrome directory with the chrome directory from this windows' build. Works excellent, and look great! Great job hewitt!

#9 Linux?

by lmake

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:55 PM

Reply to this message

Is there going to be a test build for Linux? It looks really good. The autocomplete is one of my few complaints and actually think the way IE does it is the best. From the screenshots it looks like this has been fixed.

The new skin looks really cool too.

#10 Linux?

by lmake

Monday April 23rd, 2001 10:57 PM

Reply to this message

Is there going to be a test build for Linux? It looks really good. The autocomplete is one of my few complaints and actually think the way IE does it is the best. From the screenshots it looks like this has been fixed.

The new skin looks really cool too.

#11 feedback

by macpeep

Monday April 23rd, 2001 11:31 PM

Reply to this message

Well, this is much better than the first screenshot that was posted. It strikes me that the icons in mail-news were changed cause I remember those getting pretty good feedback. Still, I like the new icons. Four main things that I see that are still not "fixed" that got a lot of negative feedback:

1) The thick borders around the but browser buttons. 2) The two different looking toolbars (browsers vs. the rest) with different sized throbbers etc. 3) The sidebar tabs - most people I remember seeing feedback from think the old Modern 2 ones are much cooler (me included). 4) The dark widgets - but these were supposed to be fixed if I remember right. (I'm talking about the nearly black ones).

The color seems to have changed to a more blue (and lighter) one so either my monitor or the skin has been whacked into shape. Good job in any case. :)

#12 Re: feedback

by glo_worm <glo83@yahoo.comical>

Monday April 23rd, 2001 11:53 PM

Reply to this message

i second that.. although the color scheme is great, the bulky browser buttons look clumsy and out of place -- especially compared to the beautiful look of the the mail/news and composer components. if the browser component can be reworked in the same way, mozilla will definitely be the best-looking browser in existence.. 8) thanks for the great work!

#13 Re: feedback

by harpoonflyby

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 12:15 AM

Reply to this message

You know we\'re all just the happiest people alive, when macpeeps approves

#45 Re: Re: feedback

by macpeep

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:10 AM

Reply to this message

Heh, I'm that negative eh? :) Really, I think I'm fair.. When something is good, I give good feedback. When something is bad, I give bad feedback. *shrug* It's not like I'm like "hey, you can stop working on that now, *I* think it looks good". If I am, please you to slap me.

#48 Re: Re: Re: feedback

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:29 AM

Reply to this message

*SLAP!*

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-)

I actually think that your negative comments can be quite refreshing. Helps us keep everything in perspective.

I think that the problem is that your comments sometimes turn into rants and flames (but maybe I'm just missing the tone). Anyway, all feedback's good, even if it's bad (if you get what I mean).

If you're involved with Mozilla you get an emotional attachment to it and criticism can be hard to swallow. But on the other hand, we're all interested in Mozilla because it's got lots of great features and most of all it has potential. Either that or we just think think that Micro$oft is scum (sorry if I've offended any scum there) and use their pseudo-monopoly of OSs to push everyone else around.

Alex

#14 design evolving

by jhewitt <joe@joehewitt.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 12:29 AM

Reply to this message

In case you all can't tell by seeing how crappy parts of Modern3 look, it is still only half done. We had finished a fully working version with the old design, and as the new design rolled in I've replaced graphics as I get them from Marlon.

Some things still around from the old design: sidebar tabs, navigator toolbar buttons, taskbar icons, all standard widgets.

#28 Re: design evolving

by vondo

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 5:55 AM

Reply to this message

Will there be a way to get rid of the text descriptions of the buttons? This was one of my favorite features of 4.7 and something I miss in moz.

Trying to minimize real estate and all, you know.

#95 Re: Re: design evolving

by ogiesen

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 1:24 AM

Reply to this message

Seconded, thirded and quadrupled or whatever! Can anyone point me to the referring bug, so I can vote for it?

Oliver

#101 Re: Re: Re: design evolving

by asa <asa@mozilla.org>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 2:30 AM

Reply to this message

22056 maybe?

--Asa

#15 compatibility

by masi

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 1:54 AM

Reply to this message

I've just looked at the screenshots and I liked what I have seen. I wonder what the skin name will be "modern/1.1" or "modern/3.0"? I hope you will not reuse "modern/1.0" cause this will break my and other add-on packages for "modern/1.0".

Masi still being a little pissed off that XUL for NS6 and Moz1.0 differ breaking 3rd party code.

#113 Re: compatibility - should be "modern/1.1"!

by masi

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 7:40 AM

Reply to this message

Argh, you did really call it "modern/1.0"!! Pleeeeeeeeeease, use a different version number! I try to ship my little Mozilla app with skin trimmed to fit modern and classic. It hurts that you change the skin again (though I really love it too).

#17 KEWL!

by quarkness

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 2:17 AM

Reply to this message

Running it now. New widget rocks! And new skin is much better than modern 2

#18 browser's back forward reload and stop buttons...

by RvR <mozillazine@mozillazine-fr.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 2:37 AM

Reply to this message

...are really ugly compared to the new mail/news buttons !

i hope you can redesign them and make them consistent with the new mail/news buttons, which are really cool !

great job, Joe.

#19 Feedback

by chrisc

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 3:47 AM

Reply to this message

Well, I\\\\\\\'m sure there are political reasons for having the browser buttons they way they are but lets face, mail-news and composer look much better than the browser - the images on the browser toolbar have defects in the shape (aren\\\\\\\'t they usually round?) and should really be a consistant look which ties in with mail-news (which is the best example of all the apps).

Obvously the hard part is creativity -coming up with appropriate icons in the given style. but I think it will be worth it (the politicians that say the browser buttons should look the way they do will follow if you get it right). If I\\\\\\\'m wrong and there is no reason for keeping the browser buttons in the style they have then get it sorted - what are you thinking?? This stuff is important to the success of the whole mozilla project because it affects user acceptance.

Just my two pence.

#20 Re: Feedback

by chrisc

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 3:49 AM

Reply to this message

wow, if you get your mozillazine account details wrong a few times when your posting stuff it inserts loads of \ characters - looks like a fault in the bit that encodes the text for storing in the database folks..

#50 Re: Re: Feedback

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:45 AM

Reply to this message

If MozillaZine uses PHP, they could just use the stripslash function to get rid them each time text is set to the server. I used to have this problem with form submissions myself with my scripts at NewZilla.

Alex

#23 Re: Feedback

by jhewitt <joe@joehewitt.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 4:58 AM

Reply to this message

You should read the post above where I explain that the browser buttons are still not finished, and that the current buttons are placeholders.

#34 Re: Re: Feedback

by chrisc

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:03 AM

Reply to this message

Good point, I stand corrected. Good work dude.

#21 Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by tyr

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 4:05 AM

Reply to this message

It does no auto-complete, or did i miss something ?? It only shows a list, but the auto-complete (the only thing that was much better than the IE version) is simply gone :(((

I want to type: www.mo and hit enter to reach mozillazine, why did they change this ??

#22 Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by tyr

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 4:06 AM

Reply to this message

It does no auto-complete, or did i miss something ?? It only shows a list, but the auto-complete (the only thing that was much better than the IE version) is simply gone :(((

I want to type: www.mo and hit enter to reach mozillazine, why did they change this ??

#30 Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by PhiSch

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 7:01 AM

Reply to this message

hey tyr,

why dont you set a Bookmark on Mozillazine and set a Keyword mz (thats how I do it) Then, simply type mz and there you go.

phisch

#82 Why not have both?

by CosmicDreams <cweber@gac.edu>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:10 PM

Reply to this message

Though I don't know the coding issues around the autocomplete feature, I suppose that both the in go box completion of the a common name root site from an incomplete word and a drop down list of other sites or direct links to pages within the site could be available simutaneously.

Just a thought -- cosmic

#31 Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by PlasticBoy

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 7:27 AM

Reply to this message

I agree with Tyr, the old autocomplete seems more useful. No mucking about about with the mouse or arrow keys, just hit enter. That feature alone makes the old autocomplete better than IE's.

#53 Re: Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:49 AM

Reply to this message

I half agree, the autofill of the text is missing (hope this is just a bug, since the new autocomplete isn't even finished yet), but I still find it much more useful now than ever. The old old autocomplete in IE was almost useless to me because it provided only one choice at a time, and 99% of the time it wasn't the URL I wanted and I would have to type in most of the URL before it gives me the URL that I wants, which made it almost pointless. With the listing of the URLs, I get a choice after typing 2 or 3 letters of the URL, which is usually within the first few things listed and all I have to do is press down with the arrow key.

Alex

#32 Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by caseyperkins <caseyperkins@mindspring.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 7:34 AM

Reply to this message

I have to agree...The coolest thing about Mozilla\'s autocomplete was the part IE lacked: it presented you with a drop down list, but also used one of the items (most recent or something like that) as the default, for which you could just press enter. Please put this back! Oftentimes the way IE does things is NOT the superior way.

In any event, at least make it an option.

#52 Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:48 AM

Reply to this message

I completely agree. I haven't downloaded the build or anything, but I loved the way that the old autocomplete filled in the best match for you. The only disadvantage I can see with this method is that if you've been to <http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html> (and no other pages at Mozilla.org), and then later type <http://www.mozilla.org> and press Enter, you'll end up looking at the Roadmap again.

So, we should do whatever we do when there's a disagreement... make it a pref! I suggest a new checkbox in the Smart Browsing prefs panel:

---Location Bar Autocomplete--- Automatically completes text typed into the Location bar.

[X] Enable Location bar autocomplete [X] Go to best match when Enter is pressed

Alex

#54 Re: Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:52 AM

Reply to this message

There should be line breaks in my prefs suggestion. MozillaZine's parser's being dense.

I'll try again:

---Location Bar Autocomplete---

Automatically completes text typed into the Location bar.

[X] Enable Location bar autocomplete

[X] Go to best match when Enter is pressed

Alex

#55 Re: Re: Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:53 AM

Reply to this message

The second check box should be a sub option of the first.

Alex

#74 Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by c960657

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 4:26 PM

Reply to this message

> The only disadvantage I can see with this method is that if you've been > to <http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html> (and no other pages at Mozilla.org), and > then later type <http://www.mozilla.org> and press Enter, you'll end up looking at > the Roadmap again.

Perhaps the best match should be the shortest match, if the shortest match is a substring of any match. In this way you will not end up at the Roadmap again, but at <http://www.mozilla.org.> Then TAB could be used to make auto-complete propose longer matches.

#75 Re: Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by SmileyBen

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 4:42 PM

Reply to this message

...and you could right arrow and then carry on typing, which is what I (and I imagine others) tend to do!

#56 IMHO - This is much better

by TonyG <tony.gorman@blueyonder.co.Yuk>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 12:05 PM

Reply to this message

Autocomplete is cool. Very cool. Even though its based on IEs approach, I much prefer this way. The old autocomplete was annoying because it olny displayed a few entries in its drop down list; that dropdown list was weird looking cos it was not same width as input box.

This also appears to be a lot snappier than IEs....

Nice job.

#58 Can we have a single Taskbar?

by TonyG <tony.gorman@blueyonder.co.Yuk>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 12:12 PM

Reply to this message

If we are going after a finished and polished UI, can we have a single taskbar like it is in Netscape 4.x?

psm icon far left, then connect icon, then progress bar, then status. Window icon - imho - is totally uninteresting and unused most likely - so it could become a fifth icon on the apps minitoolbar, or even dropped completely or moved into the sidebar...

Oh and right align the minitool bar...

I would really like to see this as optional at the very least in this theme.

One other thing - how about a Moziilazine sponsored icon design competition? Offer a small prize for the winning set of icons for use in the minibar at the bottom ... :)

#61 Re: Can we have a single Taskbar?

by dave532

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 12:44 PM

Reply to this message

I've seen the bug reports on the matter and it looks like Netscape want to get rid of the taskbar by beta1 of Netscape 6.5 which means Mozilla 0.9.1

Looks like their plan to stuff the taskbar with links wasn't very popular

#62 Re: Re: Can we have a single Taskbar?

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 1:24 PM

Reply to this message

The reaction to the links on the Taskbar surprised me a bit. Netscape Navigator 1.x, 2.x and 3.x had a toolbar full of links to their site (called the Directory Buttons) where the Personal Toolbar is now. They also had a Directory menu full of similar stuff. However, Netscape wasn't a portal then (no-one had even coined the phrase), so most of the buttons were more directly related to the browser (though there were some like What's New and What's Cool). So maybe the point's more valid now they're just trying to get us to book flights or read showbiz news.

Alex

#78 Re: Can we have a single Taskbar?

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 5:06 PM

Reply to this message

See bug 43797: <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43797>

This is set for milestone 0.9.1.

Keep in mind what you're asking for, and it's a really popular request (hell, I want the thing combined), is a CHROME issue, not a SKIN issue. The chrome provides all the structural backbone for the UI, the skin pretties it and gives it colors and shades.

Alex

#68 Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by jesse <jruderman@hmc.edu>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 3:14 PM

Reply to this message

You can press Tab,Enter (or Down,Enter) to go to the first URL in the dropdown. I like it better this way; incorrect auto-completions would often get in my way while I was using Mozilla.

#69 Re: Re: Why do they call this Auto-Complete ???

by SmileyBen

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 3:42 PM

Reply to this message

Yes, but you can't press right-arrow and then carry on typing.

#87 but...

by jhewitt <joe@joehewitt.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 9:49 PM

Reply to this message

with the new autocomplete you can hit the down-arrow and continue typing. It will fill in the first url in the list and move the cursor to the end.

#103 Aha

by SmileyBen

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 3:32 AM

Reply to this message

That'll be fine for me, then! ;-)

#24 A few comments (and bug report)

by Gorgeus <georgmeyer@loop.de>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 5:05 AM

Reply to this message

I love the mail look, but the browser really needs a redone. This is completly different to modern 2.0 so maybe we should have 3 themes packed with mozilla or at least make the "old" modern avaiable somewhere.

First bug I found: You can select to display the "go" button in the browser, but that doesn▀t work.

George

#25 A few comments (continues ...)

by Gorgeus <georgmeyer@loop.de>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 5:32 AM

Reply to this message

2. Bug I found : After switching themes from classic to modern and back, the line to enter the path goes to low and the search button looks a bit strange.

George

#26 A bit of getting used to...

by dave532

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 5:38 AM

Reply to this message

I like the new mail theme but it's gonna take a bit of getting used to. At the moment I keep clicking the envelope logo on the left to get mail!

#27 A bit of getting used to...

by dave532

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 5:42 AM

Reply to this message

I like the new mail theme but it's gonna take a bit of getting used to. At the moment I keep clicking the envelope logo on the left to get mail!

#73 Re: A bit of getting used to...

by dgileadi

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 4:07 PM

Reply to this message

A while back, someone posted the idea of combining the throbber and the envelope logo.

Whether the combined item would be on the left or on the right, I think it's a pretty good idea.

Just a thought (to keep the idea from dying).

-Dave

#29 WFT, Damn you Windows Users :)

by Brendon <forbiddentears@crosswinds.net>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 6:23 AM

Reply to this message

yup, for the first time in a few months I decided to use windows just to checkout this build.

I was shocked, the GUI.. not only looking much better than the old Modern, is just as quick as native Win GUIs! Window creation is about a second slower than Netscape, popup menu still takes about 1 second, but the rest is.. amazing.

If someone made a perfect copy of the IE GUI for Mozilla, (yes, i know of the ones at themes.org) then i honestly couldnt tell the difference unless I'd open a new window, or used the popup menu! Okay, sometimes the "File | Edit .. " menus slow down a little, but damn..

*nix guru's, damnwell get your butt overhere and start optimizing the *nix specific code! ;)

exaggurating? maybe.. but i'm impressed, very impressed.. I'm tempted in using Windows for a while.. and that says much.. just for this build

oh, the skin.. ofcourse, yah great work people ;)

#33 Timing of the Release

by Chewey

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 7:44 AM

Reply to this message

Before I make my point, let me say thanks for the preview - it's nice to play with this a bit while we can still influence the design.

But I wonder about the timing of this - now that people can play with this, is the next milestone going to be used? People will simply stick with this build until it (the new UI & autocomplete) appear in the nightlies?

Anyway - what's the plan for the new UI? Is this the only preview we'll see until it's in the tree, or are you going to make more experimental builds for us to play with?

#35 Fake Screenshot for Modern3 in Navigator

by AlMalossi <AlMalossi@gmx.net>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:12 AM

Reply to this message

Fake Screenshot for Modern3 in Navigator

I wondered how this changes would look like in the Navigator window. especially the envelope icon and the new button style.

So everybody here is usually just writing "do it yourself" ... so i did.

I faked a screenshot of a navigator window. Its a photoshop fake... it's has nothing to do with the ongoing design or the people working on it professionally. I like to contribute it too keep the interessting discussion of last time alive... beliving that this pixel moving images stuff is more important to the end-user than most of the hackers think.

The fake is of course not perfect and polished. But if you are really wondering "how would it look like if...." maybe reply and if i find some sparetime i can contribute some other fake screenshots.

Sorry for the ugly ship steering wheel couldn't make a perfect on in this short time. I tried to follow the concept of mail, where the envelope is the repeating icon s the wheel should it be in nav.

if also put the photoshop files on the server, just in case anbody else like to waste an hour in front of photoshop.

with bookmarkbar and onMouseover <http://www.phj.production…moz/modern3_fake_nav1.png>

without <http://www.phj.production…moz/modern3_fake_nav2.png>

directory <http://www.phj.productions.de/moz/>

#36 Re: Fake Screenshot for Modern3 in Navigator

by illsleydc <illsleydc@bigfoot.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:28 AM

Reply to this message

That is absolutely gorgeous.

Professional Looking.

'nuff said.

#37 Re: Fake Screenshot for Modern3 in Navigator

by Brendon <forbiddentears@crosswinds.net>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:46 AM

Reply to this message

very.. nice.

Without the bookmarkbar it looks much better, so it should differate itself in color from the toolbar, a nice, much darker blue perhaps?

with the more advanced looking icons the reload and stop buttons obviously need to be chaned to something more appropriate but i'm sure someone is working on that for Modern3.

the icon for a bookmark really needs to change, same with the bookmark folders. I believe some time ago there was a nightly with golden/orange bookmark folder icons, they looked much better...

the throbber really needs to be bigger to still fit in with the toolbar.

I've always liked the little bumps on the ...? (the little things that toggles the toolbar, menubar, and bookmark bar), the ones used now on Modern2 and presumably Modern3 look too plain and slick.

mm, after all this praising Mozilla I'm happy to get a chance to whine again ;)

#90 Orange Bookmark bar

by AlMalossi <AlMalossi@gmx.net>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:08 AM

Reply to this message

if anyone can put a screenshot of this orange bookmark stuff (don'T have this build) on his site we can cut and paste it to give it a try with modern3

#40 Re: Fake Screenshot for Modern3 in Navigator

by dave532

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 9:10 AM

Reply to this message

Looks good, although I don't think the back and forward buttons need the navigator wheel behind them but I do like the basic layout of your screenshot

#47 Re: Fake Screenshot for Modern3 in Navigator

by saberunit02

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:23 AM

Reply to this message

The navigator wheel looks nice but I don\\\'t think you need to have the it on the browser to match the design of the envelope in mail. In my opinion, as long as the button style match those of mail it would fine. Personally, I like a wider location bar and the navigator wheel would take away some of its real estate.

Also someone mentioned changing the folder icons orange. I disagree. They may look nice but it doesn\\\'t go with this color scheme.

#63 Re: Fake Screenshot for Modern3 Nav - rev 1.1

by Brendon <forbiddentears@crosswinds.net>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 1:52 PM

Reply to this message

Made a few minor changed, some very subtile.

Throbber, enlarged to a more comfortably size.

Toolbar, the lines that run under the icons and around the URLbar have been connected.

Bookmarkbar, the line that separates the "Bookmarks", "Home" and the users bookmarks has gained a little height.

Bookmarkbar/Menubar, changed the colors to a slightly darker shade of blue.

<http://195.38.200.201/modern3_fake_nav1-1.png>

#65 also..

by Brendon <forbiddentears@crosswinds.net>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 1:55 PM

Reply to this message

added more spacing between "File" | "Edit" etc..

#89 Fake Screenshots rev1.2

by AlMalossi <AlMalossi@gmx.net>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:04 AM

Reply to this message

I really like the idea to connect the tiny 3d line like Brendon done. Even as a webdesigner i do know that it's horribble to make such T-intersections looking good in a layout engine. It gives the impressions that the stuff in the bar is depending to each other, and not just a few widgets in a row.

I updated the stuff i made to make it more realstic

* the width is now 800px so like most of the users will see it.

* I don't prefer an darker blue in the menubar, i think that destroys the nice gradient starting in the menu through main nav bar and fading back in the bookmark bar.

* pushed the four main buttons tighter together to save some screen estage.. think that should also be possible in a layout engine.

* added the print button at the end

* realsize throbber from modern2 at the end

* the end is also pushed together

see all here: <http://www.phj.production…3_fake3_nav_menu_norm.png>

and here with the menu items (words) with more margin from Brendons image <http://www.phj.production…3_fake3_nav_menu_marg.png>

here an big screenshot with the old side tabs (sorry i had to fake the shadow so they don't look so smoth like they really are. but i think you all know how they really look like)

there is one with the navigator wheel <http://www.phj.production…ern3_fake3_with_wheel.png>

and one without <http://www.phj.production…odern3_fake3_no_wheel.png>

and the directory with the photoshop files. <http://www.phj.productions.de/moz/try3/>

so what you...

#64 looks great ! Joe, what about this ?

by RvR <mozillazine@mozillazine-fr.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 1:53 PM

Reply to this message

i think you guys should cooperate because Joe has done a great job for the mail/news appearance and you've done the same for navigator !

#67 merged screenshots

by RvR <mozillazine@mozillazine-fr.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 2:52 PM

Reply to this message

#77 looks nice

by googolplex

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 5:05 PM

Reply to this message

That looks nice it looks much more professional. Cureently all the buttons in the browser look shifted up a little bit like there should be text labels underneath and that fill the space nicely.

Jeff

#110 Re: merged screenshots

by tny

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 7:21 AM

Reply to this message

Some interesting ideas here; but have you thought about how it will look at 800 x 600? I think at 800 x 600 the location bar will be too crowded with the large wheel. Also the small wheels need some more work.

#105 Re: Fake Screenshot for Modern3 in Navigator

by Ben_Goodger

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 4:40 AM

Reply to this message

Unfortunately inserting an image in Navigator breaks about seven years of acquired muscle memory for use of the back and forward buttons, not to mention any sort of ease of use parity between Mozilla and IE. The letter in mail looks cool, but see the other post in this thread about the person who kept clicking it trying to get mail. The least that could be done would be to make clicking the letter retrieve mail ;)

I think the best solution though from a usability point of view is probably reversing these items and placing to the right of the toolbar (replacing the throbber?)

#109 Good idea

by mozineAdmin

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 6:38 AM

Reply to this message

Who ever said the throbber had to look like a button? It could just be an animation that looks like it's part of the background.

#114 Yes! Yes! Yes!

by jsgremlin <joshua@bluestarstudio.com>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 7:49 AM

Reply to this message

I about had heart tremors over how gorgeous the new mail chrome and the fake navigator chrome look together, but I think Ben_Gooder was right: the buttons have to start on the left edge of the screen.

I think replacing the button throbber with a gently animated wheel or envelope (or pen-on-paper as the case may be) would be.... just awesome. please do this. yes! yes! yes! after a year of lurking on these forums and testing builds, this is the one idea I was excited enough about to make an account and give my support.

As far as the animation, it needed be anything difficult or obnixous. It could be as simple as some sparkles passing across or a little pulsating. Or even shooting stars reminiscent of previous Netscapes.

#119 agree ! the throbber is old-fashioned !

by RvR <mozillazine@mozillazine-fr.org>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 9:22 AM

Reply to this message

i agree. the letter and the steerwheels are nice and they could be a really nice replacement for this old square throbber.

#120 Re: agree ! the throbber is old-fashioned !

by dgileadi

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 9:29 AM

Reply to this message

I posted above in support of this same idea. I really think it would help make the app more beautiful and also very usable (I've clicked the envelope too).

Also (opening up for flames here), how about buttons that animate on mouseovers, like the printer button printing, etc.?

This may be ugly, but it could also be cool...

-Dave

#131 Animating?

by jsgremlin <joshua@bluestarstudio.com>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:03 PM

Reply to this message

um, my thought is that it would nothing but distracting and I think we'd be into featuritis if we went that way. also, most buttons wouldn't have anything *useful* to do, and that would be confusing. E.g., what kind of animation could you do for a reload or new message button that would not simply be confusing?

#148 Re: Animating?

by AlMalossi <AlMalossi@gmx.net>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 11:26 PM

Reply to this message

Reload: An arrow following the path of a circle.

NewMessage: An nice light flash reflection like on car chrome at one corner of the envelope

:-)

#121 Re: Good idea

by chiaming

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 9:47 AM

Reply to this message

There is a great idea. The folks at Netscape could still incorporate some sort of branding, I'm sure.

#38 autocomplete and modern3 nothing special...

by billi_kid

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:50 AM

Reply to this message

...nothing that is real need to this browser.... this modern eats more from viewing space... autocompleat add some netscape stuff ... that are useless for rest of the world....i know that for americans there is US and the rest of the world ... so the rest nothing special in this things... mozilla needs : performance, simple view, not showing any new inovation at first start.. why ... becouse mozilla(netscape) lose the war... so to win it need exsactly the same features as IE but fastest and more secure.... i can't imagine that there is az manager who thinks diffrent.... apples thinks diffrent and aren't very successful for THE REST OF THE WORLS ... even for US

#123 Re: autocomplete and modern3 nothing special...

by omidk <omidk@email.com>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 9:52 AM

Reply to this message

i cant really understand what you are say at all. how does this have anything to do with americans and the rest of the world?

#134 showing lots of [cool] features,a nice GUI

by billi_kid

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:22 PM

Reply to this message

...is to be like opera 5... did you ever tryied opera.... ...one browser wich have about more than 100 windows opened at start up....

i can imageine that ppls at opera can't understand that this thing make their browser ugly and scaring regular users....

and in other words to be usefull for more and more ppl YAHOO and AMAZON keep disign clean ...no movin aroun gifs and other stuff which are useless and olny makes customers to choose something simple.

#125 Re: autocomplete and modern3 nothing special...

by macpeep

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 9:57 AM

Reply to this message

Are you for real?

What's wrong with showing lots of [cool] features, a nice GUI and being original? Provided that they all work, of course. This isn't about a war anyway - whoever thinks that sure has a sad view of the world. You can't make good software by just looking at the competition any more than you can win a car race by watching the speedometer. To be the best, you have to innovate and do something that the other's aren't doing. This *includes* being fast, secure and stable but you can be best without being the fastest as long as you're fast *enough*. It all boils down to what *FEELS* best and for this, a good GUI is absolutely crucial.

And what's with the US-dissing? Maybe you need to relax a little?

#135 not good GUI, functional GUI is absolutly...

by billi_kid

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:30 PM

Reply to this message

functional GUI is absolutely crucial like that which NS4 have... and maybe this is the most important thing so somewhere someone still use NS4.x for exsample APPLE succeed to sell their nice looking GUI to too many ppl, couse regular user used the things that are showed to them by advanced users...and advanced users used their PC for work not for fun and they like functionality not nice-looking GUIs

#136 Re: autocomplete and modern3 nothing special...

by Martyr

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 2:22 PM

Reply to this message

Interesting slam on American culture, coming from one calling himself Billi_Kid, a none-too-subtle reference to Billy The Kid, American gunfighter. I know that for Frenchmen, there is France and then the rest of the world; I know for Germans, there is Germany and the rest of the world, etc, etc. Flabby thinking scores you no points. Apple is not very successful even in the US? *LOL* What rock have you been hiding under?

#152 Re: autocomplete and modern3 nothing special...

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Thursday April 26th, 2001 11:10 AM

Reply to this message

Yes, simplying the UI in an intuitive fashion is a very a good thing. However, you still need a certain number of features, also added in a simplistic and intuitive way. Hewitt is already taking suggestions to improve autocomplete to make it more useful and make it cleaner looking. And autocomplete isn't a useless feature. I admit that I had a hard time accept it when it first came about in Netscape 4, however I've come to rely on it, and countless other people have come to rely on it.

After you got the UI up and running, why not tweak a variation of it for appearance? There is not one size fits all, but many people, including myself, really like new Modern skin. There is still Classic, which is a great skin also.

But, what does nationalism have to do with anything?

Alex

#158 Re: autocomplete and modern3 nothing special...

by gwalla <gwalla@despammed.com>

Friday April 27th, 2001 4:22 PM

Reply to this message

Please use sentences. I couldn't understand what you were saying. In fact, if you'd said "All your base are belong to us", it wouldn't have seemed out of place.

Periods can be used for more than just a third of an ellipsis.

#39 constructive autocomplete criticisms

by caseyperkins <caseyperkins@mindspring.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 9:06 AM

Reply to this message

The are a couple of things about the new autocomplete that are improvements. It feels snappier, and I like the titles that accompany the URLS. **But** Most of the changes actually detract from usability. Showing all of the possible matches of the typed sting is counterproductive, if they are show in alphabetical order. Why? Because it hides some the most commonly used URLs, and shows me many URLs I never wish to visit again. For instance, I often visit the <http://www.washingtonpost.com> and read various news articles there. Most of those articles I never will return to, but I will return to <http://www.washingtonpost.com> (the main page) many times. So with the new autocomplete, I am given too many choices - clutter, basically. That clutter also serves to hide other URLs I use more often, such as webmail.netscape.com or <http://www.washingtontimes.com>, which I will now have to scroll past tons of junk to arrive at. By that time, I could have typed the URL. My suggestion is either sort with either most commonly used URLs appearing first, or to sort to show short paths first. Another possibility is that the longer URLs (such as the specific articles at washingtonpost.com) be shown only after a keyboard shortcut is pressed. Please do not eliminate Mozilla's previous autocomplete advantages over IE. IE does **NOT** always do things in the most optimal manner.

#41 Re: constructive autocomplete criticisms

by tono

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 10:20 AM

Reply to this message

I totally agree. I think the best way would be to use the .com's first and then the subpages of that .com after all the .com addresses are listed. The only problem I have with the auto-complete right now, is that it stores the misstyped url's too. I say this new one is slightly overkill.

#42 Re: constructive autocomplete criticisms

by dave532

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 10:45 AM

Reply to this message

Using .com's first will cause a lot of disagreement with people because you're encouraging the "all the webs a .com mentality" I agree that the best method is to display based on the most recently accessed.

#43 re:

by socbyset <socbyset@hotmail.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 10:56 AM

Reply to this message

I think what he meant was that the site root appears before a sub-page. For example if I visit nytimes.com, then look at an article at nytimes.com/aslkdjf2093kcgc-imcsdoqhoap3948384.html, then autocomplete will show nytimes.com first even if the article viewed was most recent. Makes sense.

#44 Re: re:

by socbyset <socbyset@hotmail.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 10:57 AM

Reply to this message

Or I should say, it *should* behave that way..

#46 Secure Site Problems

by smuench

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:12 AM

Reply to this message

Is anyone else having problems with secure sites on this experimental build? Every single SSL site I've tried turns into an endless loop of mozilla opening new window after new window - like a porn site or something (ex: <https://cubmail.cc.columbia.edu/> ).

The good news is Mozilla is getting much faster, because these windows open rather quickly. Of course, that's what also makes this suck!

#51 my thoughts

by archen

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:45 AM

Reply to this message

unfortunatly I'm going to have to say I'm against the new autocomplete feature - I like the old method much better. I also don't like the new modern skin much better than the old. I think I'm going to end up sticking to classic since I just can't get to liking the new modern skins (well its better than the first one! LOL). Not to be negative, but I think that everything is getting to "cartoony". Heck, I though N4 looked too cartoony for me compaired to N3. Is anyone working on alternative skins that can be imported? I do like the gradiant on the URL bar though. Definatly go with that idea!

I must say Moz is pretty smokin nowdays. I remember when Moz finally got far enough to "use"... you click and wait 2 seconds for anything to respond. Now it's just about as responsive (well in many aspects anyway) to the native stuff on windows. "Good job" to anyone that's worked on it.

gah! When did the backspace button start making you go to the previous page instead of "page up" like it used to? Dammit!

#66 Re: my thoughts

by johnlar <johnlar@tfn.net>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 2:37 PM

Reply to this message

>Is anyone working on alternative skins >that can be imported?

Umm <http://mozilla.themes.org>

#57 Document Inspector

by dave532

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 12:12 PM

Reply to this message

For those who didn't know, there's also a document inspector in this build: Tasks > Tools > Document Inspector

Seems like a more advanced version of the DOM Viewer we had for a while

#59 Document Inspector

by dave532

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 12:39 PM

Reply to this message

For those who didn't know, there's also a document inspector in this build: Tasks > Tools > Document Inspector

Seems like a more advanced version of the DOM Viewer we had for a while

#60 Sorry....

by dave532

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 12:42 PM

Reply to this message

I think the reason for my double posts is because I've hit reload after posting the message and no warning dialog popping up that form data was going to be reposted.

#115 Thanks! Re: Document Inspector

by billpena

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 8:08 AM

Reply to this message

Wow, this is a fantastic new feature, why has no one mentioned it? As a web developer it is damned useful, especially if it will work with XML and XSLT files too.

#70 good feedback

by jhewitt <joe@joehewitt.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 3:44 PM

Reply to this message

Thank you all for the interesting feedback on the theme and autocomplete. I've gotten some good ideas for ways to improve autocomplete from your posts.

I agree that the list of autocomplete results is often filled with garbage. We definitely need to sort in a more intelligent way than just alphabetically. I'm thinking that I could sort first by most visited sites, and perhaps also not show urls that have more than a certain number of sub-directories.

Some of you want the url to be inserted in the textbox as you type, while some of you don't. I think that it is only handy to complete the url if the url being completed is the one you want to go to. We could try to determine this by the number of times you have visited a site, or by how may subdirectories are in the url. In cases where no url meets a certain criteria, nothing would be inserted.

#92 pic sources

by AlMalossi <AlMalossi@gmx.net>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:12 AM

Reply to this message

Are the picture sources of modern3 available anywhere? I mean the photoshop or gimp origin stuff.

Or are they keep secretly on the designsers notebook in a directory nobody will find again... (like on mine)

would be fun to play around with it a little bit.

#71 good feedback

by jhewitt <joe@joehewitt.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 3:44 PM

Reply to this message

Thank you all for the interesting feedback on the theme and autocomplete. I've gotten some good ideas for ways to improve autocomplete from your posts.

I agree that the list of autocomplete results is often filled with garbage. We definitely need to sort in a more intelligent way than just alphabetically. I'm thinking that I could sort first by most visited sites, and perhaps also not show urls that have more than a certain number of sub-directories.

Some of you want the url to be inserted in the textbox as you type, while some of you don't. I think that it is only handy to complete the url if the url being completed is the one you want to go to. We could try to determine this by the number of times you have visited a site, or by how may subdirectories are in the url. In cases where no url meets a certain criteria, nothing would be inserted.

#104 Re: good feedback

by Cryp2Nite

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 4:25 AM

Reply to this message

> I\\\'m thinking that I could sort first by most visited sites, and perhaps also not show urls that have more than a certain number of sub-directories. Stripping out URL\\\'s with more than n sub-directories is probably a good thing unless they were entered by the user in the location bar.

> We could try to determine this by the number of times you have visited a site, Sounds like it makes sense

> In cases where no url meets a certain criteria, nothing would be inserted. About this I am not sure, this might be confusing? As I come to think of it, maybe an elaborate scheme for determining what the user wants might be too confusing to begin with? It might be wise to use either \\\'most often\\\' or \\\'most recent\\\' so that the user can still somewhat predict the behaviour.

Anyhow: I think and URL\\\'s should probably be weighed differently if they where typed in the locationbar by the user or they where visited by following a link.

So maybe determine ordering like so: first: URL\\\'s most often/recently typed by user second: URL\\\'s most often/recently visited by following a link Then: Order URL\\\'s within a domain according to number of subdirs wen they fall into the second category? And make the often/recent a pref

Hmm befre I started typing this post was gonna make sense, but as I am typing this I realise there are a lot of possible ways to go about this. Maybe there should be a way for users to make their own rules along the lines of e-mail filtering?

Lastly the obligatory feather up the bum for all the developers: I\\\'ve been downloading the nighlies since M16 or so and I have to say since the crash landings a couple of weeks ago Moz has improved leaps and bounds, keep it up!

#132 Re: Re: good feedback

by tny

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:17 PM

Reply to this message

I'd go with

1. Count any visit to a URI in the data capture period as 1 point. 2. Count any typed entry of a URI in the data capture period as 3 points. 3. Count any visit to a URI this week as 3 points 4. Count any typed entry of a URI this week as 6 points

Then order as follows: domain name and nothing else first, then sort the rest of the visited pages on this domain into groupings by first-order subdirectories in point order highest to lowest, and so with pages and second-order subdirectories, etc. (Does this make sense?)

#106 Re: good feedback [Sorry prev reply got mangled]

by Cryp2Nite

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 4:59 AM

Reply to this message

> I'm thinking that I could sort first by most visited sites, and perhaps also not show urls that have more than a certain number of sub-directories.

Stripping out URL's with more than n sub-directories is probably a good thing unless they were entered by the user in the location bar.

> We could try to determine this by the number of times you have visited a site,

Sounds like it makes sense

> In cases where no url meets a certain criteria, nothing would be inserted.

About this I am not sure, this might be confusing? As I come to think of it, maybe an elaborate scheme for determining what the user wants might be too confusing to begin with? It might be wise to use either 'most often' or 'most recent' so that the user can still somewhat predict the behaviour.

Anyhow:

I think and URL's should probably be weighed differently if they where typed in the locationbar by the user or they where visited by following a link.

So maybe determine ordering like so:

first: URL's most often/recently typed by user

second: URL's most often/recently visited by following a link

Then:

Order URL's within a domain according to number of subdirs wen they fall into the second category?

And make the often/recent a pref

Hmm befre I started typing this post was gonna make sense, but as I am typing this I realise there are a lot of possible ways to go about this. Maybe there should be a way for users to make their own rules along the lines of e-mail filtering?

Lastly the obligatory feather up the bum for all the developers: I've been downloading the nighlies since M16 or so and I have to say since the crash landings a couple of weeks ago Moz has improved leaps and bounds, keep it up!

#107 URL's with subdirs - THE SOLUTION

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 6:12 AM

Reply to this message

If various subdirs of a URL were visited, maybe the URL could be part of the presented list and the subdirs could be a \"subdirectory\" of that URL list item. If only one subdir was visited for a particulat URL, then the entire URL (incl subdir) would be listed in the main list.

URL-1 URL-2 > subdir-1 subdir-2 url-3

#108 how do you enter hard returns in this forum? :(

by peterlairo <Peter@Lairo.com>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 6:14 AM

Reply to this message

how do you enter hard returns in this forum? :(

#116 Re: how do you enter hard returns in this forum? :

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 8:15 AM

Reply to this message

It seems you have to press Enter twice (i.e. start a new paragraph).

Like this.

Alex

#72 thanks joe

by caseyperkins <caseyperkins@mindspring.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 4:03 PM

Reply to this message

Thanks for listening to us, and for your hard work, Joe. One of the main reasons why I support the Mozilla project is that I have input into it. Your response affirms that that is true. Thanks again.

#76 Document Inspector does rock!!

by MentatDev

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 4:43 PM

Reply to this message

Document Inspector does rock!!

#79 just in case...

by rilister

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 6:10 PM

Reply to this message

it's hard to predict which bits of the gui are yet to be finished and all that, but I'd hate to see the hover highlight square clashing with the raised bumps around the buttons on the toolbar like that in the final version.

Otherwise it's looking great. I'm one of those freaks who preferred Modern v1, though. Will it stay an option - it looks so gloriously clunky.

#80 just in case...

by rilister

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 6:10 PM

Reply to this message

it's hard to predict which bits of the gui are yet to be finished and all that, but I'd hate to see the hover highlight square clashing with the raised bumps around the buttons on the toolbar like that in the final version.

Otherwise it's looking great. I'm one of those freaks who preferred Modern v1, though. Will it stay an option - it looks so gloriously clunky.

#81 Prefs

by tea <tea@grilledcheese.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 6:27 PM

Reply to this message

The new autocomplete is great, amazingly fast too. One thing i wish it had tho was a section preferences control panel. As you can see from the many posts here, some people like this feature to work in different ways than other people. It would be huge if we could all customize it to our liking. In particular, my suggestion would be to allow the user to turn off the mouse reaction to the list being brought up. I know many people use the mouse to go through the list, but I can\\\'t stand it. Whenever I hilight the textbox the mouse falls somewhere in the list that gets in the way of me pressing the down arrow. (I also hate this in windows autocomplete).

The new gui is great as well, the email topbar makes the app seem so new and professional. I wish it took up less vertical space on the screen, but I can live with that.

#86 Re: Prefs

by jhewitt <joe@joehewitt.com>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 9:45 PM

Reply to this message

The new mail toolbar is slightly taller than it used to be, but we are planning to implement an option to shrink the toolbar (by removing text and/or using smaller icons).

#88 Re: Prefs

by SubtleRebel <mark@ky.net>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 11:18 PM

Reply to this message

How about an option for text only?

#96 Re: Prefs

by masi

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 1:47 AM

Reply to this message

On small screens text-only is great, *ah* small :-) WOuld be nice to have this option again.

#97 Re: Re: Making money of this?

by dave532

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 2:05 AM

Reply to this message

#111 Re: prefs

by masi

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 7:23 AM

Reply to this message

Great! I don\'t even have to vote for it :-)

#83 Why not have both?

by CosmicDreams <cweber@gac.edu>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:24 PM

Reply to this message

Reprinted from my earlier reply:

Though I don't know the coding issues around the autocomplete feature, I suppose that both the address box completion of the a common name root site from an incomplete word AND a drop down list of the most common pages within the site could be available simutaneously.

This way we benifit from both methods of auto-complete.

Just a thought -- cosmic

#84 Looks great. Time for MozAmp 3!

by jesusX <jesus_x@mozillanews.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:35 PM

Reply to this message

Looks GREAT from the screenshots. I'll run it shortly. These are big changes that are going to be massive leaps forward for Mozilla.

Since this isn't due to be "out" for a while, it means I can get a new WinAmp/XMMS skin ready on or before this gets released! Get ready for MozAmp 3.0!

MozAmp Blue [dead, no link] MozAmp 2.0 [<http://www.winamp.com/ski…l.jhtml?componentId=51175>]

#85 Bad link, correct one here.

by jesusX <jesus_x@mozillanews.org>

Tuesday April 24th, 2001 8:36 PM

Reply to this message

#91 Autocomplete to eager

by lama <lasse@lama.no>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:08 AM

Reply to this message

I love both the skin and the autocomplete. My only complaint would be that the autocomplete should not suggest all my previous typos that have resulted in 404's. Any way to filter out those?

Also I agree that the envelope looks great, but I still keep clicking it to get new messages.

#93 Re: Autocomplete to eager

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:34 AM

Reply to this message

YES! YES! Joe, are you listening? I can't believe I forgot this myself. Autocomplete, and perhaps this might be the fault of history since its the one recording the URLs, should NEVER show address that get 404 (File Not Found) pages and mistyped domains that don't exist. I mistyped my own domain a few days, which doesn't exist, and the autocomplete (the current one, not the new one), still lists it!

Alex

#99 Actually, there's a bug for this

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 2:19 AM

Reply to this message

The bug is 9203: <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9203>

Join in the discussion :)

Alex

#98 if the buildbar won't continue, please remove it

by ogiesen

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 2:08 AM

Reply to this message

this starts to get pretty frustrating. I really loved the build bar and relied on it. I understand that Asa is out of time to maintain it. but if no else is going to take his place, you should better remove it altogether. otherwise it looks like the last usable build was from April 12...

Oliver

P.S.: one other thing which i think has been missing for a real long time on mo'zine is a general mozillazine discussion forum aside from the feedback sections. best example is this post: it has nothing to do with the original post, yet where else should I have posted it?

#100 Re: if the buildbar won't continue, please remove

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 2:20 AM

Reply to this message

Is Asa out of time in general, or just for the week? After all, we're in the 0.9 freeze period, which gets really busy, so maybe when this calms down Asa would returnth.

Alex

#102 Re: Re: if the buildbar won't continue, please rem

by asa <asa@mozilla.org>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 2:52 AM

Reply to this message

I should be back in business and updating the buildbar as soon as we release. Until we branch there isn't much new in the daily builds anyway. WHen checkins are limited like they are now, keeping up withth changes (bonsai query) is much easier and you all don't really need me anyway.

--Asa

#117 Re: Re: Re: if the buildbar won't continue, please

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 8:29 AM

Reply to this message

Why is there just one reviewer for the build bar? Surely, someone else could volunteer to download builds and write comments for times when Asa's busy.

I would volunteer myself, but I have a 56.6kbps dial-up connection, pay for calls by the minute and have a load of A-Level exams starting soon.

Alex (not the Newzilla guy)

#127 How can we track checkins?

by theuiguy

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 10:39 AM

Reply to this message

Can you give us a hint of what you do to track changes? Do you just do a Bonsai <http://bonsai.mozilla.org> query for changes in the last day and then compare the checkins with the bugs? What other tools and resources do you use? #mozilla?

#128 Re: How can we track checkins?

by castrojo <castro@infantry.com>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 11:01 AM

Reply to this message

On the mozilla.org homepage, bottom left menu .. "New Checkins"...

#129 Only for last day's checkins

by dipa

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 11:17 AM

Reply to this message

but sufficient anyway. Most bug fixes there include descriptions so you can easily decide if it worths risking to try the corresponding build.

#112 Weird bugs

by cyfaone

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 7:26 AM

Reply to this message

Im getting 2 weird bugs with the experimental build. When I go to <https://service.capitalone.com/cgi/Home?Login> , it opens up IE.

The browser opened up the download dialog when I tried to go to this page <http://www.mlx.ml.com/_me…/FormsLogin.asp?/coresite>

Anyone else experience these happenings?

#122 Re: Weird bugs

by saberunit02

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 9:48 AM

Reply to this message

Got the same result with your first link, but not your second. IE also opens up for me when I click the sign in button on hotmail's sign in page with the experimental build.

#137 Re: Weird bugs

by Ben_Goodger

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 3:50 PM

Reply to this message

I'm told that if a protocol helper is not available for a given protocol, Mozilla will defer to the operating system on Windows. I saw this too trying to log into Bank of America. Looks like PSM isn't configured with this build, so https URLs get loaded by the OS' default handler

#118 envelope logo in mailnews

by mozuser

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 8:39 AM

Reply to this message

I like what I've seen of the new Modern3 theme. However, I think the envelope icon in the upper-left corner of the mailnews window should go. It looks good, but the space it takes up interferes with the function of the toolbar.

#124 Scrollbar needs to be lightened

by saberunit02

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 9:54 AM

Reply to this message

It's a minor issue, but the color of the scrollbar needs to be lightened a tad to match the browser.

#126 toolbar images and throbbers

by macpeep

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 10:06 AM

Reply to this message

I've looked at the screenshots for a couple of minutes now and contemplated for a while..

I've come to the conclusion (same as a lot of people here) that the images (the envelope and the fake-screenshot steering wheel) definitely look good but that they definitely shouldn't be on the left side. Toolbar widgets are anchored on the left edge of the window and when you resize, you manipulate the empty space on the right of the toolbar widgets. If you miss something there, it's not the end of the world. On the left side though, there's no extra space. This too is a reason to move the images to the right side - or even completely remove them.

Second issue comes up both by looking at the screenshots and by moving the images to the right side of the toolbar. The throbber is a problem.. The throbber in the screenshots is smaller than it could be. It is also DIFFERENTLY sized for the browser and the rest of the apps because of the different styles on the toolbars. Provided that there's just one style and that the style is the new mail-news one, we are now sitting with a small throbber and no good way to put the toolbar images (envelope, steering wheel etc.) on the right side.

The MozillaZine admin had a good idea. Let's drop the throbber (the way it is now) and make the toolbar images be the throbber - either functionally or just simply by being on the right edge of the toolbar. We still have a progress meter on the status bar so we don't really NEED the animation on the throbber. And let's face it, the throbbers have been there since what - 1993 at least - and there's really very little added value in them. Why not drop the throbber and use the saved space for cool toolbar graphics?

And just to make the point one more time.. WE NEED CONSISTENCY! There should only be ONE size of throbbers (if there are any). There should only be ONE type of toolbar. There should only be ONE look for icons.

#130 keep the throbber.

by joschi

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 11:19 AM

Reply to this message

most of your comments are good, but we should definitely keep the throbber idea up in the right hand, people like my granddad unconsciously know that when that thing up there is animating that the browser is still working. Its a de facto standard that works.

#133 morph the throbber.

by jsgremlin <joshua@bluestarstudio.com>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 12:18 PM

Reply to this message

An animating *something* in the top right is good, but I don't think it *has* to be an ugly, boxy button. I loved the Orbit theme for NS6 in large part because it included a throbber that looked decent and wasn't rectangular.

IMHO, using an envelope/wheel/pen&paper/rolodex in that area would be great, since it would make each ap more distinctive, yet consistent. Consistency would be even better if they could be animated similarly, with lightly shaded (and thinner than in NS4) shooting stars passing in front and behind them. I think that would confuse very few people, and the overall aesthetic gain would win some converts.

#138 indeed.

by joschi

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 4:03 PM

Reply to this message

that was essentially my point, thanks for reinforcing it for me :) I love the new mail image, but it should be used as the throbber on the upper right... that would be so slick if it animated somehow, same thing with that communicator wheel icon :)

#139 But throbbers fit smaller screens

by theuiguy

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 4:44 PM

Reply to this message

The only downside I can see to this is that the envelope image and the others are pretty big. When you resize the browser window smaller, the throbber stays on the right edge of the window. The throbber needs to be small in order to maximize the amount of toolbar buttons that you see on a small window. Perhaps we can come up with some other technique to replace the throbber... I dunno, maybe the image can become background of the toolbar if there's not room for it.

Don't get me wrong: I love the idea of having a slick animated image instead of a buttonish throbber, especially if the image will always be present.

#155 Re: But throbbers fit smaller screens

by pirat

Thursday April 26th, 2001 5:04 PM

Reply to this message

For smaller screen I can hit F11 and use "fulscreen"-mode (in fact I'm using it on 1600x1200 :). It took about 30 lines of code to implement it. Unfortunately it doesn't work on Linux - its window manager doesn't allow to expand windows out of the screen.

#140 another fake screenshot for another throbber...

by RvR <mozillazine@mozillazine-fr.org>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 4:44 PM

Reply to this message

i hacked some animated enveloppe and wheel to replace the throbber in that fake screenshot. it's crude, it's an ugly hack (sorry for that) but it does demonstrate what the throbber could be, doesn't it ?

<http://mozillazine-fr.org…sts/modern3_wish_RvR.html>

(obviously, the animated enveloppe throbs while retrieving mail, while the wheel throbs while retrieving a web page)

#141 Looks good to me

by chiaming

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 5:01 PM

Reply to this message

This would look really good!

#143 that is it.

by joschi

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 5:10 PM

Reply to this message

it definitely needs a graphic artist to make it smooth, but that should DEFINTELY be the motif for this theme... it would be so slick for each of the apps to have its own slickly animated throbber like that, i really like the idea of the mail envelope flying in like that :)

#142 Re: another fake screenshot for another throbber..

by castrojo <castro@infantry.com>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 5:07 PM

Reply to this message

RvR,

That looks way cool. Though personally, I would prefer the Navigator wheel to be thicker, with fewer spokes and more iconolike. (is that a word?) Maybe if it looked something like the navigator launcher at the bottom left of the app.

FWIW, my vote is for the envelope/wheel thing to be on the right like his example.

#144 Re: another fake screenshot for another throbber...

by Brendon <forbiddentears@crosswinds.net>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 5:31 PM

Reply to this message

mm, like the layout but i dont quite agree with the animation

it should be something _very_ subtile, currently its IMHO very annoying. Someone mentioned stars, I think that would be a great idea.

The animation now that it feels more integrated into the toolbar, should be very low profile.

#145 Looks great ... two suggestions ..

by ipotting <iapottinger@netscape.net>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 5:34 PM

Reply to this message

To reiterate some of my comments in a previous discussion <http://www.mozillazine.or…ticle=1889&message=52> I think that replacing the throbber with animating envelope/nav-wheel images would be great. Marketing fluff would be replaced by a identity creating element that also provides user feedback.

Two suggestions: 1) Ensure the images and the animations are very subtle. Don't distract the user. He can turn his attention to these elements when he wants, at his choosing. Don't force it on him. 2) Though probably not possible in Mozilla right now, make use of the space behind and around the other elements on the toolbar. This helps to conserve space. Ideally the toolbar background should *be* the throbber!

#146 Could someone file a bug for that?

by Sparkster

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 6:30 PM

Reply to this message

I guess that would get more attention. :) Also I would like to vote vor this. Very very great idea. I always thought, someone should try to come with something more interesting than this boring throbber box, which everyone copied since Netscape. Or was it Mosaic? Or is it even older?

#147 Re: Could someone file a bug for that?

by AlexBishop <alex@mozillazine.org>

Wednesday April 25th, 2001 7:13 PM

Reply to this message

I believe Mosaic had a throbber on the left-hand side that also acted as a Stop button. It was a stylised 'S' (as in NCSA). Netscape has always had throbbers on the right-hand side, starting initially with one based around an 'M' (it was called Mosaic Communications then) in a circle with coloured blocks (they rotated during data transfer). By the time of the first 1.0 release, legal reasons meant that it was now a rather dull blue 'N' that raised to become embossed and then sunk back into the screen. The shooting stars throbber debuted in 1.1. It was restyled for 4.0 (the animation became faster and the throbber reduced in size), but I always preferred the previous version. I love Netscape 6's throbber though. Very cool.

Alex

#149 like it too... where to get a nav wheel

by AlMalossi <AlMalossi@gmx.net>

Thursday April 26th, 2001 4:43 AM

Reply to this message

I like it this way too, vote

this small graphics workshop really works.

does anybody has a picture of a nice ship steering wheel (maybe a screenshot from netscape 4.04 open screen).

the here used nav wheel was made by me in 3d but i didn't have any picture of a true nav wheel one, so thats way this one looks so lousy

#153 Re: another fake screenshot for another throbber...

by wampus

Thursday April 26th, 2001 11:36 AM

Reply to this message

Its great, definitly prettier than the current throbber.

#154 Re: another fake screenshot for another throbber..

by ksheka

Thursday April 26th, 2001 12:30 PM

Reply to this message

I like the pictures, but don't like how they are animated. Here are my suggestions for the animations: For the Navigator wheel, how about making it spin (like a real wheel does). Maybe clockwise for a new page and counterclockwise when you're going backwards to a previous page. For the envelope, how about opening the envelope and a page coming out when downloading messages, and putting a page in and closing it when sending email?

#156 bug filed! (was: Re: another fake screenshot...)

by NikoP

Friday April 27th, 2001 5:10 AM

Reply to this message

oh yes, would be really cool to have the proposed animations, except that I think the (netscape!) navigator wheel should be removed from _all_ the mozilla apps. Perhaps there could be the current mozilla throbber in a bit other version. I filed the bug# 77871 (<http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77871>)

Niko!

#150 Great!

by tssr

Thursday April 26th, 2001 6:40 AM

Reply to this message

I like the new skin, but one thing: Mozilla really REALLY should use Windows' colour schemes -- like Classic.

I would like a version of Modern that uses Windows widgets (OK/Cancel boxes), and Windows colours (like Classic).

Alternatively, I would like a version of classic which had Modern icons (especially the ones for Mail!)

#151 Great!

by tssr

Thursday April 26th, 2001 6:41 AM

Reply to this message

I like the new skin, but one thing: Mozilla really REALLY should use Windows' colour schemes -- like Classic.

I would like a version of Modern that uses Windows widgets (OK/Cancel boxes), and Windows colours (like Classic).

Alternatively, I would like a version of classic which had Modern icons (especially the ones for Mail!)

#157 List of suggestions for interface improvements

by mpconnelly

Friday April 27th, 2001 4:09 PM

Reply to this message

Echoing points made by others and introducing some new ones, in no particular order:

* The new icons in Mail and Address Book are _wonderful_ improvements over the old theme(s). I won't comment on the icons in Navigator or Composer because I suspect that these are either placeholders or first drafts. It is good to see an effort to match the softness (and ease on the user's eyes) of the icons in IE6/Luna (the browser and desktop icons as opposed to other aspects of Luna).

* One commenter asked for the Windows-default colors. I strongly echo the need for an earthtone base to your color scheme. While my eyes are color-deficient, it would appear that the new scheme tones down some of the pink of previous versions (but doesn't eliminate it entirely) and then combines such with green and baby blue highlights. To my eyes, the new colors don't work. IE6's earthtone base and complementary icon colors are far easier to stare at for hours (i.e. if you are working on email) and far less likely to clash with the color of visted web sites. Beyond past bugs and sluggishness, the number one reason why I haven't switched back to Netscape was what I considered to be the garish colors (in modern 1 & 2) and chunky nature of the included themes.

* Don't mix and match photographs and cartoonish icons. It's a clash of design styles. Pick one or the other and stick with it throughout the program. Either use something akin to Luna or MacOS X but don't try to combine both because it doesn't work. I prefer the subtle cartoon nature of the current icons like the printer.

* Don't include pictures that are nonfunctional (like the envelope on the left side) anywhere. This will confuse users because they won't know what button to click. Always remember the grandma test.

* Regardless of the style in which you depict the icons, align all of them on the same axis. BeOS had a very uniform look and feel to the OS's icons, applying an approximately 45 degree perspective to all icons. You can choose whatever angle you prefer to indicate 3 dimensions but once chosen, please stick with that angle throughout as much as possible. Similarly, shadowing should be applied to all icons and consistently.

* Include a user option to remove the throbber. If it must be included by default, fine. But I consider it a useless waste of my screen real estate given the progress thermometer on the task bar.

* Speaking of real estate, make every effort to reduce the amount of the desktop occupied by the Mozilla interface. This includes the taskbar, which is almost the right height when "turned off" in the demonstration build. Things like icons for other components of Mozilla should be incorporated in this small task/status bar or eliminated from the GUI. The t-bar used in the mailing program should be put on a diet. Consider the use of alpha-blending to separate screen items (see the MacOS X for an example of how the menu bar is separated from the desktop).

* Borders should be the same color pallete and thickness throughout. For example, the scrollbars are very thick and dark pink. The sidebar's index tabs (titles) are similar. Without consistency of colors and thickness, my eyes are drawn first to the scrollbar and tabs and then to the icons. Things like the t-bar should be almost invisible.

* Replace the widgets in the HTML render with similarly soft widgets. Beta 1 of Windows XP better demonstrated buttons and pull down menus than Luna.

* Finally and importantly, simplify the menu items. There's too much from which to select. IE has always had a more intuitive menu structure, burying most of the least used configuration settings on the options > advanced screen. That's the best place for such. Examples of what could be moved/hidden include: pruning the new / open on the file menu to one each, a la IE; removing the search Menu and access that functionality via an icon on the navigation toolbar; eliminating use style sheet, page info, languages and web content, character coding and theme from the view menu (most of these are configuration settings that should be in preferences anyway). In summary, the interface should be as streamlined as possible so as to speed the adoption curve for newbies and eliminate clutter for experienced folk. If a menu item isn't used all the time, then it should be moved as appropriate. The exception to this rule is where the removal of a menu item would represent a significant departure from the Windows interface standard and thus confuse users who are used to a location (if for no other reason than 90% of your potential user base is familiar with that standard).

#159 List of suggestions for interface improvements

by mpconnelly

Saturday April 28th, 2001 12:28 PM

Reply to this message

Echoing points made by others and introducing some new ones, in no particular order:

* The new icons in Mail and Address Book are _wonderful_ improvements over the old theme(s). I won't comment on the icons in Navigator or Composer because I suspect that these are either placeholders or first drafts. It is good to see an effort to match the softness (and ease on the user's eyes) of the icons in IE6/Luna (the browser and desktop icons as opposed to other aspects of Luna).

* One commenter asked for the Windows-default colors. I strongly echo the need for an earthtone base to your color scheme. While my eyes are color-deficient, it would appear that the new scheme tones down some of the pink of previous versions (but doesn't eliminate it entirely) and then combines such with green and baby blue highlights. To my eyes, the new colors don't work. IE6's earthtone base and complementary icon colors are far easier to stare at for hours (i.e. if you are working on email) and far less likely to clash with the color of visted web sites. Beyond past bugs and sluggishness, the number one reason why I haven't switched back to Netscape was what I considered to be the garish colors (in modern 1 & 2) and chunky nature of the included themes.

* Don't mix and match photographs and cartoonish icons. It's a clash of design styles. Pick one or the other and stick with it throughout the program. Either use something akin to Luna or MacOS X but don't try to combine both because it doesn't work. I prefer the subtle cartoon nature of the current icons like the printer.

* Don't include pictures that are nonfunctional (like the envelope on the left side) anywhere. This will confuse users because they won't know what button to click. Always remember the grandma test.

* Regardless of the style in which you depict the icons, align all of them on the same axis. BeOS had a very uniform look and feel to the OS's icons, applying an approximately 45 degree perspective to all icons. You can choose whatever angle you prefer to indicate 3 dimensions but once chosen, please stick with that angle throughout as much as possible. Similarly, shadowing should be applied to all icons and consistently.

* Include a user option to remove the throbber. If it must be included by default, fine. But I consider it a useless waste of my screen real estate given the progress thermometer on the task bar.

* Speaking of real estate, make every effort to reduce the amount of the desktop occupied by the Mozilla interface. This includes the taskbar, which is almost the right height when "turned off" in the demonstration build. Things like icons for other components of Mozilla should be incorporated in this small task/status bar or eliminated from the GUI. The t-bar used in the mailing program should be put on a diet. Consider the use of alpha-blending to separate screen items (see the MacOS X for an example of how the menu bar is separated from the desktop).

* Borders should be the same color pallete and thickness throughout. For example, the scrollbars are very thick and dark pink. The sidebar's index tabs (titles) are similar. Without consistency of colors and thickness, my eyes are drawn first to the scrollbar and tabs and then to the icons. Things like the t-bar should be almost invisible.

* Replace the widgets in the HTML render with similarly soft widgets. Beta 1 of Windows XP better demonstrated buttons and pull down menus than Luna.

* Finally and importantly, simplify the menu items. There's too much from which to select. IE has always had a more intuitive menu structure, burying most of the least used configuration settings on the options > advanced screen. That's the best place for such. Examples of what could be moved/hidden include: pruning the new / open on the file menu to one each, a la IE; removing the search Menu and access that functionality via an icon on the navigation toolbar; eliminating use style sheet, page info, languages and web content, character coding and theme from the view menu (most of these are configuration settings that should be in preferences anyway). In summary, the interface should be as streamlined as possible so as to speed the adoption curve for newbies and eliminate clutter for experienced folk. If a menu item isn't used all the time, then it should be moved as appropriate. The exception to this rule is where the removal of a menu item would represent a significant departure from the Windows interface standard and thus confuse users who are used to a location (if for no other reason than 90% of your potential user base is familiar with that standard).

#160 Submit bug? (refresh shouldn't resubmit)

by mpconnelly

Saturday April 28th, 2001 12:32 PM

Reply to this message

I am not sure whether the issue is in Netscape or in the site (perhaps a unique ID should be associated with each form, the resubmission of the same ID would prevent multiple entries) but all I did was return to this page a day later and press refresh to read the comments and I appear to have inadvertantly resubmitted yesterdays' comments.

#161 This looks great

by josh_hall2k <josh_hall2k@hotmail.com>

Sunday April 29th, 2001 6:58 AM

Reply to this message

The new Modern theme looks absolutely fantastic.

The new icons for Mail, News etc. look brilliant, as does the colour scheme.

Also, a point for debate, but maybe once you have clicked on a link in the autocomplete window it should appear in the address box as soon as you click it, rather than once you are actually on the page?

#162 New button/tab colors

by bugs4hj <bugs4hj@netscape.net>

Monday April 30th, 2001 10:03 PM

Reply to this message

I would love to see those ugly colors for button and tabs to be changed a.s.a.p. When you open Composer, for example, you hardly see the text on those buttons, do you. The buttons are to dark, at least when you compare it with all other nice stuff.

So Hewitt, nice work, but please change the button/tab color because they are simply to ugly for the rest of it.

I have used this build to test MultiZilla and didn't like those colors at all. When you like to learn more about MultiZilla please follow this <http://members.v3spave.co…ultiviews/multiviews.html>