A couple of comments:

1) The toolbars for mail and the browser don't share the same design 2) The buttons on the browser toolbar have a heavy outline.. could be a little lighter (as in.. not heavy) 3) the component icons (bottom bar) are cool but the wheel for the browser is a little heavier than the rest and feels a little bit out of place 4) the dark grey-brown widgets ("go", "search", "all engines" etc.) could get some other color.. it's not totally bad but that color is sub-optimal 5) the lock icon should be moved to the left on the toolbar. leaving the empty corner there for the mac resize widget makes no sense since 95% of all computers will just have an empty corner there. 6)

6) the netscape icon in mail news has a weird alignment caused by the text-bar for the buttons.. not good 7) the tabs in the sidebar had a nicer shape before imho

Anyway, overall, I think it's decent.. but I never had a problem with the older version either.. I wish that would have been cleaned up instead of making a completely new design instead. Oh well.. As long as this one gets cleaned up, I guess it's ok. BTW, this isn't a slightly lighter shade of blue. This is purple.

I esp. like the improvements to mail/news, but I'm curious as to why it looks so different than the browser. Nice new icons on the taskbar.

I was guessing something like this would happen in preperation for a 1.0 release and a new netscape release... Must look different than that awful 6.0 thing..

This new skin looks pretty cool but I rather like the grey version of the modern skin that's available on Netscape's Theme Park. I find the grey less distracting. Maybe you could make a grey version of this one?

Why is Netscape taking so long to release the other themes. The contest was over month's ago and there are several theme's I would like to look at and try.

Also why hasn't anyone created an Aqua (Mac OS X theme) for Mozilla?

The Modern theme is getting better, but I think it would do every platform better, if there was a specific theme for each platform, Windows looking, Mac OS 9 theme, Mac OS X theme, BeOS theme, etc.

What's that huge down-arrow button to the left of the URL field? I assume that it's the pulldown button for the list of previously-entered URLs. If so, it should be attached to the right side of the field, not orphaned off on the right. People know what combo boxes (Win) and popup menus (Mac) look like. I don't think it's very smart to reinvent such a common UI element, especially when the result takes up more space and looks awkward.

... as the from mail window - they are more colored and better for the eye.

I like the mail/news toolbar better - they just seem to be less harsh. But will the ability to turn the text labels on/off be available? If you do decide to use the mail/news toolbar style, then putting the Netscape Navigator logo (wheel) at a similar angle would be neat.

Nice start though.

The icons styles in Navigator are sufficiently different from Mail/News to make them look like separate apps. We really need different icons checked in for each of the mozilla components asap. Having the same icon in the taskbar for each mozilla app (or Netscape 6) is just confusing

The psuedo-3D dimple effect is totally cheesy. Just my 2-cents.

I love everything about mail (provided you can turn the text labels off - and that the envelope shrinks correspondingly when you do) and hate (almost) everything about the browser. The circles are ugly and way too pronounced, the grey "search" and "go" buttons don't fit in with the rest of the theme, the sidebar panels are ugly compared to their current state, etc. etc.

If you were to make the browser use the same icon style as mail (get rid of the circles, shrink the icons down, put in optional text labels, etc) I'd be in heaven!

Oh yeah, and I'm in favor of a grey version, too :)

Stuart.

I think all of the design clues from the new Mail should be carried over to the other apps. It looks so much more professional than those ugly circles.

That envelope image is really cool. We need more of that type of design.

Also, the sidebar tabs do not fit in well.

I really like the new look. I just have a few suggestions. 1. Move the home button up with the other default buttons. 2. The look for Mail and Mozilla seem quite different. I like the Messenger look better. 3. I agree with other posts that a gray version would be great. 4. Is there a good way to provide both a large icon version (like the one in the screen shot) and a small icon version that didn\'t take up nearly as much screen real estate? Is there support in Mozilla that would allow all themes to do this?

I really like the new look. I just have a few suggestions. 1. Move the home button up with the other default buttons. 2. The look for Mail and Mozilla seem quite different. I like the Messenger look better. 3. I agree with other posts that a gray version would be great. 4. Is there a good way to provide both a large icon version (like the one in the screen shot) and a small icon version that didn\'t take up nearly as much screen real estate? Is there support in Mozilla that would allow all themes to do this?

Will the new skin finally use PNG images, or are we still using GIFs? (which is illegal, right?)

When are we going to get movable toolbars like Netscape 4.x had? http://www.mozillazine.org/chat/logs/2000-1-6-SKINS.html

In that log from Jan 2000 hyatt claims he's working on making the toolbars reorderable. What happened to that?

It'd be great to bring back the IRC moz developer chats too :)

The buttons look like they were made out of Playdoh (Plasticine-like stuff that small children play with) and the borders around them are too thick. And, no offence to whoever made them, but the new My Sidebar tab titles suck.

Having said that, I quite like some of the new blues, especially the Taskbar shade (which, purple or not, I think is the same as the Navigation bar colour) and the mail message highlight. The new drop-down menus (as in 'All Engines') are great - I always thought the ones in the old Modern let the theme down a bit. Ditto the new scrollbars - very nice.

I love the envelope picture on the Mail toolbar. If space is a problem, why can\'t it be moved to the other side (just before the 'N')? The background for the text labels has to go though.

I wish the dividers (between My Sidebar and the content area etc.) could be like the ones from PR3. They were gorgeous.

I guess Netscape is making a new Modern theme because they want Netscape 6.5 (or whatever they call their Mozilla 1.0 release) to look different from the tragedy which was Netscape 6 (which I'm using now... the Navigator component is very good).

Alex

The buttons look like they were made out of Playdoh (Plasticine-like stuff that small children play with) and the borders around them are too thick. And, no offence to whoever made them, but the new My Sidebar tab titles suck.

Having said that, I quite like some of the new blues, especially the Taskbar shade (which, purple or not, I think is the same as the Navigation bar colour) and the mail message highlight. The new drop-down menus (as in 'All Engines') are great - I always thought the ones in the old Modern let the theme down a bit. Ditto the new scrollbars - very nice.

I love the envelope picture on the Mail toolbar. If space is a problem, why can\'t it be moved to the other side (just before the 'N')? The background for the text labels has to go though.

I wish the dividers (between My Sidebar and the content area etc.) could be like the ones from PR3. They were gorgeous.

I guess Netscape is making a new Modern theme because they want Netscape 6.5 (or whatever they call their Mozilla 1.0 release) to look different from the tragedy which was Netscape 6 (which I'm using now... the Navigator component is very good).

Alex

It sounds like this skin is going to replace Modern. Why? I like the current Modern skin. (Could changing the toolbar color be an option within the skin?)

Btw, a few problems visible in the screenshot: the scrollbars look recessed. The toolbar buttons in the browser look disabled.

The new messenger looks good, and colour makes the icons easier to use. But I don't like the dimples under the toolbar buttons - they have no relation to the icon.

Navigator sucks compared to the current skin, I can see no improvements.

Oh, and Asa: This skin is not an alternative skin, it is a replacement to the existing modern skin.

I like both the modern and this new modern. I hope the now "old" one will be an option as well. I think it looks a little less "heavy" in some parts such as the navigator buttons. I also dont like how it is a little purple instead of blue. I think mail looks much better, however. Jeff

It seems less drastic from the modern looks. Or use the latest aphrodite? http://jeff.newdream.net/other/mozilla/ui/concept.html

Has Asa given up commenting on builds? It was pretty useful.

I think the Navigator part should assume an appearance similar to the Mail program. I love the new toolbar and look for the mail program, definitely a huge improvement and it makes the mail program look very professional. The Navigator part however should look like its mail counterpart to be consistant and to make the interface look very professional. If navigator has the same appearance as the new mail look, then I think the browser will be taken much more seriously since it will look so much more professional. May I add that Internet Explorer will pale in comparision to this UI.

From the screenshot, it seems to me that the design is very far from complete.

The overall color change is an improvement. The changes to the browser window are for the most part nice. I like the shape of the sidebar tabs. The toolbar button outlines are a little to heavy as some have suggested.

But the mail toolbar is where I have problems. The "blister" effect on the toolbar buttons make the buttons less distinct and I suspect they would be harder to hit than the current buttons. The text for the toolbar buttons seem to be enclosed in a horizontal box, which seems to indicate that they are part of the same element when they are not. The envelope icon on the left is a nice touch, but I suspect this makes the "Get Msg" button more difficult to hit because it's farther away from the edge of the screen.

I'm curious as to why this is an "upgrade" for Modern rather than an entirely new skin? I'm pretty happy with the usability of Modern 2.0. Besides the color tweak, I can't see why it needs a redesign. I think Netscape is making a mistake if they think it's a good thing to have the UI vary from release to release just because they can.

By the way, for those of you who posted about wanting a gray look for Mozilla, check out the GreyModern skin on x.themes.org.

Please keep the current Modern theme as an option. The newer one proposed seems a bit \"over the top\" to me.

Does anyone else notice that a lot of the changes made are responsive to the criticisms of the original Modern2? For instance, several folks complained that the navigator buttons in Modern 2 aren't 3-D enough; so now we have more 3-D navigator buttons, and folks are complaining about how thick the lines are!

Me, I think this theme (which obviously isn't finished yet) is heading in the right direction, and I'm not about to criticize either the author of this theme or Netscape. I'm used to Modern2, I got used to Modern1, and I actually liked the old EarlyBlue theme best (and yes, I have installed that early-blue theme and I switch to it sometimes). I doubt that the changes between Modern3 and Modern2 are going to turn people off Netscape. (I'm not sure if they'll help distinguish a later Netscape from the IMHO premature 6.0 product, but hell, it's worth trying: Mozilla today is much better than 6.0 was in November.)

That said, I would prefer to see a little more work on the browser window; there have been some interesting points made above.

Comments for other aspiring theme designers: I wonder if a more translucent look might not be more aesthetically pleasing, though, given the direction the two major commercial operating systems are headed? Linux folks you don't have to worry about too much; they'll probably download alternate themes anyway or make their own (I imagine we'll start see a lot of new E and Sawfish themes designed to match Moz and a lot of Moz themes designed to harmonize with the existing E and Sawfish themes). But OSX folks will want something that looks good with Aqua, and XP folks will want something that looks good with XP. (Not native, just harmonizing). So it might be worth it for some UI guru out there to work up a theme with a translucent color scheme that will look good with either (or both), which I think Classic (and possibly Modern2) will not. (Aphrodite's Sullivan is good, but not quite what I am thinking of . . .)

The look between the two apps MUST be unified - there is no way around that one.

The mail style is very professional lookin, so that style should be used for all apps.

The mail style needs some serious tweaking:

1. The icons look great but are way to small. This will be a big problem with far sighted people. Also aiming a an icon is too difficult at the current size. One nice thing about NC4.x and the "classic" theme, is that the icons were large (idiot proof).

2. Although the envelope graphic looks cool, it gets in the way of usability. People will look for their icons starting from the left edge, and will always be forced to "scan" over the envelope - not good after prologed use. I suggest to loose it (sigh).

3. If the graphic stays, then the browser (and all other apps) should have a graphic too.

4. We don't want a Netscape throbber. Please use a Mozilla throbber.

5. The address book icon on the taskbar is too washed out. I suggest to put only one silouette of a person that is much larger and clearer to recognize.

6. The mail throbber should be larger

7. Did I mention that the mail icons need to be much larger? Oh yes, but it's important.

8. Most other comments here I agree with totally: go/search buttons to dark, browser wheel in taskbar too bulky/blurry, browser icon borders to bold/thick, mail icons text shouldn't be in a box, scrollbars look recessed, need option to hide/show icons text and adjust icons size accordingly.

9. I DO like the 3D effects under the mail icons and taskbar items.

10. This theme should be in addition to the Modern theme since it will be so different. Call this theme: "Classic 2". Or at least put modern on x.themes.org.

First thing that struck me was how much it made Mozilla look like a Palm m50x ;)

Anyhow, for the most part I like the new look. However, the thing I dislike about it the most are the new tabs in My Sidebar. They look cartoony and childish. The tabs from the current Modern are polished and slick. I much prefer the straighter edges on the current Modern, and the shadow effect is just awesome.

This is one item that should be left alone, IMHO.

So some people seems to like the envelope image and some want pure visual usability why not make a switch in the preferences to toggle between a state with nice pictures (yes i like them, and would find it a pitty to kick them out for usability reasons) and one without.

This should make both partys happy, and also solve some width problems.

Just one point for the "envelope"-picture: When I think of a real killer-user: My mother, she is already confused when ns4 opens all this windows (like mail compose) with different use. For users like her this describing images are quite usefull. A real linux user shoud have the possibility to get rid of all this completly unnecessary image staff and have just the first letter of each function (reduce to the max) B F R S Back Forward Reload Stop

*I* think this is a great theme.

First, the browser window. Newbies will welcome the distinct-contrasting-thick buttons because they help to answer the eternal question of "where to click". Also the way that the modern theme is layed out, the focus tends to jump right to the location box (and everything inside); after all, isn't the most important part of the web browser the address of the current page? No, the address is the second most important part of the web browser window. The actual site is the most important and this is emphasized by the use of paleness, flowability, and unobtrusive.

However, the sidebar seems to go against the over theme of the top bar. It seems a bit darker, drawing attention to the selected tab and away from the main page. Maybe the selected tab should be a lighter color then the other tabs. Maybe all the tabs should be colored more consistantly with the top bar (lighter). Maybe I should stop complaining... In anycase, the shape of the tabs flow towards the page... drawing the eye with them.

Then their is the mail window - wow - cool! The first thing that the eyes goes to is the top bar, but then it is right to the selected message (good). But, as other people have flamed, the top bar is not consistant with the top bar of the browser. For example, the colored highlights are a cool effect, but on browser top bar, there are none. I tend to like the added color, and I tend to like the mail icon on the left... if space was a concern, would it be possible to have it as a background image of the top bar? I also appreciated the way the text is set off from the buttons.

But, I disgress from consistency. Maybe just having text under both would even out the size diffence of the two sets of buttons.

I really cannot see why anyone would not like this theme... yes it does have some minor flaws, but overall it is giant leap in the right direction. As my Dad would put it, "you done good."

I really wish we had a single taskbar along the bottom. it would free up a bit of precious screen estate and it would - imho - look a lot neater.

The new design is cool. I like the 3D things under the icons. The gray idea is good too. Personally I liked Modern1 and Early Blue the best. Modern2 is just plain ugly. Now this is a step in the right direction. I don't think that this is for Netscape6. I think that the hole reasoning behind this is that Netscape is releasing mozilla1.0 as Netscape7 and they needed a new look so people won't think it's more of the same. Fresh look,lots more speed, loads more stability, sounds like enough to change to 7. I could go on but I won't.

In mail, I'd suggest putting the envelope background on the right hand side, and (maybe) layering the throbber over it. At the moment it looks great as visual design, but people do expect their icons to start on the far left, so why not put the envelope on the right instead?

Can we get new screenshots of the skin as it progresses? That way, people can comment more on it and give their opinion instead of seeing a beta and then seeing it next in their nightly build - as "final".

Marlon is working on incorporating much of the feedback we've gotten from this Talkback, on the newsgroups, and in general into a new revision. He's changing so much stuff that it's likely we'll push the landing back a bit so we can get it all done. Specifically, he's made all new icons for toolbar buttons in mail, etc... will be toning down the "purplish blue" color to a more "grayish blue" color, and a few other little things here and there.

As soon as he's done with his mockups I'll post a screenshot to n.p.m.ui so you guys can give us more feedback.

... linked from the article, then check out this link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010607201539/http://www.joehewitt.com/mozilla/modern-new.jpg