MozillaZine

Netscape Cannot Win

Monday November 6th, 2000

I have recently become convinced that Netscape is fighting a losing battle against third-party micro-managing in their attempt to produce a browser for market.

The first conflict was with the raving loonies of the WSP. The WSP whines and bitches about standards compliance. They create a petition to convince Netscape to switch to development of their "Gecko" rendering engine technology, which promises greater standards compliance. They take credit for the Mozilla project moving to this new technology.

Then, they decide that the WSP is much more concerned about dictating project deadlines than standards compliance, and demand that Netscape release a product before the end of the year 2000, and stop any more work on Netscape 4.x -- including security fixes, apparently. (And read below to see what their fearless leader had to say today).

Now, a guy named Dave Flanagan has determined that Netscape 6 is too non-compliant to be released, although any reasonable, objective assessment of the application would prove that it is much more compliant than any browser currently on the market (yet you don't hear Mr. Flanagan petitioning against the release of iCab or IE6 or Konqueror).

And guess what? Mr. Flanagan has a petition you can sign, telling Netscape to hold off release of Netscape 6! But you can also use his petition to log your dissent.

[Mr. O'Reilly, I'm saddened that you signed an assent to Mr. Flanagan's petition without making an assessment of Netscape 6's standards compliance.

And Mr. Zeldman, I was dismayed, but not surprised, to read your statement in which you backtrack on the WSP's call for product release by the end of the year, when you obviously have not done an honest assessment of Netscape's standards compliance. "Releasing a close-to-perfect standards-compliant browser would be fine. (No software is perfect.) But releasing a browser with seriously buggy, incomplete standards support will not serve Netscape, will not serve developers, and will not serve the cause of web standards."]

I have made it known to a few people that I will no longer be fielding Netscape news on my site. You may see news of product releases, but you will no longer see links to reviews, complaints, rants, or any other information having to do with the Netscape product.

This site is called MozillaZine for a reason. I started it to support the Mozilla Open Source project. Along the way, I tried to be a voice of support for Netscape as it navigated the murky waters of being a commercial contributor to an open project. But what I am confronted with is the fact that if I were to continue posting Netscape news I would be forced to continue posting links to this garbage, giving it more credibility than it deserves. Look what happened when news of Mr. Flanagan's petition hit Slashdot. The petition now overflows with rants against Netscape, and I bet not one of these ravers has done even a modest assessment of Netscape 6's standards compliance. Is that the kind of support you wanted Mr. Flanagan? If you can get lots of people to raise their voices, does the din drown out their ignorance?

In any case, this crap will no longer will find a home in MozillaZine. So, take a good long look. Gaze into Mr. Flanagan's eyes. Because he's the last guy with an axe to grind against Netscape that you will see in these pages. The last armchair-marketer to get a say on this site. You'll have to go elsewhere to get your fix. (However, I allow myself an exception to clobber the hell out of the WSP if they continue to act like pussies.)

Netscape is in the unenviable position of choosing between bug-fixes and product release - the Scylla and Charybdis of software development. They've set their course. Maybe they will stop and reassess. That's up to the Netscape managers and the PDT team. But the waters grow increasingly insipid, and they might just end up deciding that it's not worth the trouble and pack it all up and call it a day. Maybe they can put in the past this peanut-gallery micro-management Hell that they've fallen into.

I'll leave you with a very thoughtful post to the n.p.m.layout newsgroup by Dylan Schiemann.


#38 My $0.02

by DomitianX

Tuesday November 7th, 2000 8:45 PM

You are replying to this message

I am not a mozilla developer, I am not much of a programmer at all. I am a web developer. I am one of the poor people that have to deal with all of this crap.

Let me tell you what I want, I want to be able to develop a site that will look the same on any browser, which will NEVER happen.

I read an earlier comment from a reader about how IE sucks for rendering his pages but NN6/Mozilla looks great.

This is a one sided opinion. That is like saying, I painted a picture but it looks better under florescent lights made by GE not the other. Think about it, if you are viewing as you are designing in IE and you get most if done looking the way you want then you view it in NN6 it looks different. It is the same as painters or printers. As a person that works in the printing industry, and from talking to really anal color people, they have very adiment about the types of light bulbs in the room, the height of the light from the floor, the color of window dressing to let only certain shades of light in because it affects what they feel is the best environment for creating.

It is the same in the web dev world. It isnt going to be perfect. All browsers will ALWAYS look different.

I develop using IE and I always bitch about the way netscape screws my pages up. The previous poster develops using NN/Mozila and he bitched about how IE screwed his pages up.

As web developers we need to develop for what people are using, not what we want or think is the coolest browser or our buddy is developing that browser.

All this pissing and moaning about Mozilla or Netscape and also the pissing and moaning about the pissing and moaning is truly childish.

As web developers, our job is to deliver what the user wants in a way that is appealing to the eye and for the platform that they use. If 97% of the people are using IE, we need to develop for IE otherwise we may alienate our readers. If 97% are using Netscape, then we need to develop for that platform.

Myself I dont care, I use the browser that is used by most people that visit my site and I use the browser that renders it the fastest and they way I want it to look.

If tomorrow Netscape or Mozilla took off and it was the most popular browser, then I would use that and develop for that.

If IE continues to have market share, then I will use IE to develop with. Majority rules, and will always rule.

I will develop for the browser that my logs show is the most popular. Granted, I will check it in different browsers and make a best effort to make sure it works in all browsers, but majority rules.

My $0.02