MozillaZine

PR2 Released!

Monday August 7th, 2000

Netscape 6 PR2 has hit the servers. These are accessible from Netcenter, so I suppose they're official.

CAVEAT:On the Windows version (the only version I tested), the files apparently aren't final yet. To get the install to work, click "Cancel" while Smartdownload makes its attempt to start the download process. When it asks you if you want to Cancel your download, click "Yes". The process should start properly.

My verdict, upon initial viewing: Why doesn't the install work without having to do that workaround? Why don't the links on the initial-start-front-page work? Why do I have a Net2Phone link on my personal toolbar even though I didn't install it? And why does Net2Phone start (and then crash) when I click that link??? Why is the default skin not Classic, and instead that goofball Modern skin? Why are all the extra sidebar panels visible in the AIM client? Why is the "Setup" button obscured on the AIM client? Why? Why? Why?

Why am I bothering with this when M18 is already so much better? My wish: that Netscape gets their act together for PR3. This is one of the stupidest rollouts that I've seen (worse than PR1, even). Damnit, guys - the Mozilla product is so much better.

I recommend downloading an M18 build if you're looking for a better indication of where the product is at currently. The PR2 build doesn't do it justice, and I don't see that it has enough useful extras to recommend it.


#1 Linux installer doesn't work at all

by jwb

Monday August 7th, 2000 10:12 PM

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PR2 got released with a broken Linux installer. It dumps core without installing on at least Slackware and Debian Linux.

<P>I'm really steamed about this because I spent a huge chunk of my time smoketesting the candidate build. I filed a smoketest/crash/blocker bug against the installer, but it was marked TRUNK/MOZ only, because someone couldn't reproduce the problem on Red Hat Commercial. Of course it is NOW dogfood+/nsbeta2, but it's a bit late for that. Netsacpe PDT has got to realize that in the Linux world, most people do not run Red Hat. And if someone files a blocker, it should really be investigated before being glossed over.

<P>With that said I congratulate the Mozilla/Netscape team for killing over 1800 bugs since PR1. I just wish they had waited a little bit, if only to get more favorable coverage from the Linux community and trade press.

#19 Re: Linux installer doesn't work at all

by mcamen

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 6:37 AM

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This seems to be a bash2 <-> bash1 related problem (See Bugzilla #47921). On my SuSE 6.4 system changing /bin/sh from /bin/bash to /bin/bash1 has helped. Now at least the installer is able to access to ftp-server.

#36 Re: Linux installer doesn't work at all

by mikem

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:04 PM

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> This seems to be a bash2 <-> bash1 related problem (See Bugzilla #47921). > On my SuSE 6.4 system changing /bin/sh from /bin/bash to /bin/bash1 has > helped. Now at least the installer is able to access to ftp-server.

Yes. It worked for me as well (SuSE 6.2 based system). Thanks!

#28 actually...

by mattdm <mattdm@mattdm.org>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 9:19 AM

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I think most Linux people *do* run Red Hat. That doesn't make this situation any better of course.

#65 Re: Linux installer doesn't work at all

by generic

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 2:34 PM

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This is the worst version of Netscape for Linux yet! Not only does the small installer segfault in Mandrake 7.0, but even the "full" installer with the xpi subdirectory also segfaults after installing a bunch of files (I downloaded the 12MB file from <ftp://ftp.netscape.com>). This release is definitely NOT ready for prime time! Back to 4.7x for me!! M18 works, but is extremely slow on my system ...

#2 It rules, but I want PR3!!!

by Kovu <Kovu401@netscape.net>

Monday August 7th, 2000 10:26 PM

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You can tell it needs optimizing. And even Netscape developers joke that PR3 will be the first usable version of the program, but this one ain't bad. Modern's the default though. >:(

James

#43 Re: It rules, but I want PR3!!!

by unbekannt

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 1:13 PM

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Perhaps Netscape PR2 isn't a usable version, but Mozilla M17 is better than Netscape 4 by a long shot. I've been using it all day today and it is faster, smaller and much more stable (!). Kudos to everyone.

#3 Downloader is Crap

by Anon

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:13 AM

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I'll tell you what, the downloader is crap. "SmartDownload", but I was disconnected over halfway through it, so I quit the setup file (I had checked Save XPIs locally) and restarted it, and it tried to redownload it. Is there any way to resume? I'd probably get an answer here faster than I could re-download those files.

#4 Re: Downloader is Crap

by jwb

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:20 AM

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Try this link:

<ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub…ozilla-win32-talkback.zip>

Just use your favorite FTP program to fetch it. FTP can resume.

To hell with the installer, and just say no to PR2.

#5 a bit of a hack

by johnlar <johnlar@tfn.net>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:35 AM

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Run the setup program minimize it, go into /windows/temp/temp_ns (assuming windows) and copy all the files into some other directory. Open up config.ini and change all instances or <ftp://ftp.netscape.com> to an ftp server you setup as well as changing all instances or /pub/.... Then run the setup program that you extracted from the directory (not the one you downloaded). Sadly it seems there is no way to specify a local directory, it has to be ftp (or http:??) :( So be ready to install an ftp server. This is handy if your installing it on several machines though.

#6 Re: a bit of a hack

by Anon

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:49 AM

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Thanks all :(

I have the latest Mozilla nightly, and it's great, but I still crave to try PR2! :D

And johnlar, thanks for the tip! A lot of work though, I'll probably end up downloading it overnight :( I remember PR1 had a single, large file!

#9 You right

by johnlar <johnlar@tfn.net>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 1:13 AM

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Wow, I though I had tried that, feel stupid. Anyways thanks for the added tip (I think when I tried that I ran NSetup and that copied over the .xpi files. arg)

#8 Re: a bit of a hack

by dveditz

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:52 AM

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Uh, it's a lot easier than that.

Put n6setup.exe in some empty directory. run "n6setup -u". Now edit the config.ini to your heart's content, and run setup.exe (NOT N6setup.exe) when you're done.

If your .xpi files are already in the same directory as setup.exe they will not be downloaded. This is the way the install works from CD's, you don't need to set up a local ftp server.

#22 Re: Downloader is Crap

by rkl

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 7:38 AM

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You're right - it's not "Smart Download" at all - it has no concept of mirror sites, so insists on downloading from <ftp://ftp.mozilla.org>, it often gets a bad (1K/s) connection that I have to manually Pause and Re-Connect on (if it's so "Smart", why doesn't it detect that itself and auto-re-establish ?) and, worst of all, there isn't a 16MB-ish .exe you can download for PR2 (there was for PR1 in the "sea" dir) that do the "dumb" download of and install "all in one go" (no further Net connections needed). <P> Strangely, when I installed 6.0 PR2, it actually fired up in the Classic skin without me telling it to - maybe it's cos I use the Classic with Mozilla ? <P> BTW, this "Netscape Activation" thing (the dialog box you get when fire up PR2 for the first time), does it send any info to Netscape (it shouldn't, but it smells like it might) ?

#23 Re: Downloader is Crap

by rkl

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 7:41 AM

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You're right - it's not "Smart Download" at all - it has no concept of mirror sites, so insists on downloading from <ftp://ftp.mozilla.org>, it often gets a bad (1K/s) connection that I have to manually Pause and Re-Connect on (if it's so "Smart", why doesn't it detect that itself and auto-re-establish ?) and, worst of all, there isn't a 16MB-ish .exe you can download for PR2 (there was for PR1 in the "sea" dir) that do the "dumb" download of and install "all in one go" (no further Net connections needed). <P> Strangely, when I installed 6.0 PR2, it actually fired up in the Classic skin without me telling it to - maybe it's cos I use the Classic with Mozilla ? <P> BTW, this "Netscape Activation" thing (the dialog box you get when fire up PR2 for the first time), does it send any info to Netscape (it shouldn't, but it smells like it might) ?

#7 how many PR's are there going to be?

by archen

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:50 AM

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Um... well I hear talk about PR3, but I was under the impression that after PR2, N6.0 would come out. Not that I care so much, but I'd like to figure out where in the timeline Moz will be considered to be in it's Version 1.0

Think I'm going to stay away from any Netscape Preview this time. Sure the little 'N' throbber is cute, but overall Moz has what I want, without the crap like AIM.

#11 Re: how many PR's are there going to be?

by bratell

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 2:22 AM

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Netscape will, according to thier plan as I know it, have one more preview release/beta (number 3) before the full release of Netscape 6.

Mozilla has monthly (give or take 5-6 weeks) milestone releases. As far as I know, there is no set deadline for Mozilla 1.0.

#45 Number of Milestones

by unbekannt

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 1:16 PM

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The last time I checked, there were plans for up to milestone 29 -- that doesn't mean Mozilla 1.0 won't come out beforehand (in fact, M17 seems damn near perfect for me...), but that they are thinking a ways ahead.

#10 Well...

by Anon

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 1:43 AM

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Thanks for the tip! I finished downloading it and have this to say...

Did they even try this before they released it? Surely they'd notice the taskbar bug. And I also noticed that the "Image Blocking" feature is removed, to no one's surprise. Of course, there are a few good features, such as the Bookmarks menu in the personal toolbar (who's idea was it to remove THAT? I use that all the time, sheesh.) and the old-style Buttons for the personal toolbar (again, make Classic look like Classic!)

Good for a novelty. I haven't tried M17, but it probably looks like this :(

Also, I can't get my ichat plugin working with PR2 like I can with Mozilla, copying the npichat.dll file to the Plugins directory. Anyway, posting with PR2, as I switch to Mozilla...

#56 Re: Well...

by NikoP

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 4:25 AM

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> Good for a novelty. I haven't tried M17, but it probably looks like this :(

- NO! Try M17 and you see what had been possible for PR2 and what Netscape killed.

#12 Proxy Problems...

by unapersson

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 2:46 AM

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Does the installer work from behind a proxy? I'd tried the old cancel trick but it still doesn't seem to able to connect to the FTP server.

FTP in Mozilla doesn't seem to work through a proxy either so I'm wondering if the two are connected.

#24 Re: Proxy Problems...

by jwb

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 8:04 AM

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The Unix installer works by actually forking off a copy of /bin/ftp, so if that doesn't work for you normally, the Mozilla installer isn't going to work either.

#13 My impression (MAC)

by Waldo

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 2:55 AM

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Well I guess I'm the first one to review this for the Mac.

HOLY CRAP. We're in trouble.

All I can do is hope to holy hell that Netscape buries this release and no one in the general public ever downloads/installs PR2, ever.

Oh, and by the way, let me say in advance to whoever will argue the usual "this is pre-beta software, blah blah blah blah" let me remind you that THIS IS THE FIRST EXPOSURE MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE WITH NETSCAPE 6. Their opinions will be formed largely on their earliest experiences. The fact that netscape has released this is.. oh jesus....sweet jesus help us.

I'm sorry, I'm still just totally stunned.

Let's start off with the download/install. I loaded the installer (very small, admittedly, though it was located in a directory labeled for Mac OS 8.5. I use Mac OS 9, but after downloading the readme confirmed it worked on 8.5 OR ABOVE) and took a look inside the folder. There's a README file with astonishingly dry, boring installation instructions, and there's a License Agreement file. No personality whatsoever. Nothing discussing this as an open source project, nothing about what this release is for, no notes about reporting bugs, and no reminder that what you're about to see is a work in progress and you can expect that it's going to be fixed and check out a nightly of mozilla and if you want to help build it, here's what you do and....on and on.

What a totally missed opportunity to introduce the project.

Anyway, so I ran the very unappealing installer which asked me which components I wanted to load (I have no need for German, wanted to try a mail/news free install, etc.)

1. It then installed everything, totally ignoring the components I selected. 2. It took about 50x longer to download than the Mozilla nightlys. Why can I get the whole of Mozilla's .sit in less than a minute on my DSL, unstuff and just run, but to get Netscape I had to go through a whole rigamarole of downloading each peice, then processing them all which took over 10 minutes?! (don't tell me the bigger size is the reason either. The "extras" might account for a little more time, but not this astounding install-a-thon) 3. It then ran a profile manager thing and then, at my foolish request, converted my Netscape 4.x profile to Netscape 6. This took, on my Powerbook G3 about 5 drive-churning minutes. 4. Finally it finished. It then asked me to enter all kinds of bizarro Netcenter-related stuff. I THINK I have a netcenter account (that's my.netscape.com, right?) so I entered some info, which it took without asking for a password or anything. All I have to ask is-- what the hell was it going on about? I just wanted to try the browser, not apply for an East German exit visa. 5. FINALLY after more whirring churning, gurgling and spinning, I finally got something that looked like a browser, albeit wearing the CRAPPY "modern" skin. 6. Displayed on the screen was a totally ugly page with some kind of layered animation that was moving so slowly I could see the redraws. The computer felt like it had ground to a halt.

I should mention that the above process took about 15 minutes. A typical Mozilla install for me is, oh, maybe 3 minutes from download to running it. During the install, there was no caveat about (1) how the zillions of files were temporary and that (2) I can expect vast improvements in future versions and that (3) gosh, you can help with this fun internet experiment, and here's how.

In short, the installation experience just plain sucked.

I should also mention that PR2 starting up for the first time on my Mac feels about 1/3 the speed of Mozilla's recent builds. The AIM client in the sidebar made me laugh out loud it was so slow and awkward. After getting no response from double-clicking a buddy's name a few times to send an AIM too, I suddenly locked up as about 9 IM windows slowly tiled themselves on the screen. I stopped laughing and my jaw just hit the floor.

I must also add that during the install, the fake non-native widgets looked totally half-baked. I was having flashbacks to Mac's infamous Word 6 port. I swear to god Java's Swing looks about 5x classier than this awkward mess. Netscape, can you at least use "Classic" for the installer part so I can see some normal looking buttons?

When i finally switched to the classic theme (the preferences wouldn't open at first, and then after I selected it, I couldn't hit the OK button, I had to Cancel) things looked MUCH better, but it's still abominably slow.

WHY OH WHY doesn't this default to classic?

Anyway, I honestly don't know what Netscape is thinking. I'm have a feeling this will be one of the kinder reviews by a Mac user in the next few days. (I *LOVE* the Mozilla project you guys...)

To anyone who may have come here who is not really familiar with Mozilla, please do NOT judge Mozilla on the Netscape PR2 release. It doesn't have to be like this...

Wait for PR3, or go grab one of the M18 nightly builds: <ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/> -- it's a lot better.

W

PS - I hope that they've got better bug report handling than they did for PR1 cuz I have a feeling they'll be overwhelmed.

PPS - Sorry for anyone I've offended. I'm still a believer in this project, and if I made any errors I'm sure they'll be corrected quickly.

PPPS - Stupid new menu items of the day: "Print Plus" (?!!!!)

W

#30 Mac installer does NOT work

by Mundue

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 9:45 AM

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I've no gripe with the Installer other than it does not work. On three of my Macs (G4/iMac/G3 PB, all with 9.0.4) the Installer croaks just after it downloads when it begins extracting.

#69 look at the versiontracker reports...

by soybomb

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 7:44 PM

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they're just as bad, if not worse, than the PR1 release.

and i was _really_ hoping this was going to be the release to make up for the awful first public release. oh well, don't expect Mac users to be using Netscape for a while now... not unless it makes an EXTREME change for the better...

<http://www.versiontracker…?id=3123&showRatings=>

#40 Mac Version works GREAT!

by edoggie <ericg@yackinc.com>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:53 PM

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I've had no problems with PR2, infact I'm writing you from it right now. The is the most stable release I've used. Hasn't crashed once (been about 30 minutes of use). I've switched to the classic theme, which is very nice, like the old Netscape but better (you can finally put folders in the Personal Toolbar and get pop-up menu's when selecting them, like in IE 5 for Mac). I would say Mozilla and Netscape still have a ways to go. But this is a suprising turn of events, finally a usable and stable release of Netscape 6. I can't wait for the final one.

#79 Re: My impression (MAC)

by soybomb

Friday August 11th, 2000 5:58 PM

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HOLY CRAP is right -- at least PR1 would run. PR2 just sits there without a menu with a big, blank window covering my entire desktop. Oh wait, was that supposed to be some page rendering? Sorry, too slow. Crap crap crap. Expect every other average user to get the same reaction. Netscape has lost its chance, as far as I can tell, unless they pull some REALLY compelling content out of their ass when this goes final to get people to switch. Because as someone who started building pages since lynx first came out, Netscape 6 (not Mozilla, I'm still a fan of that) will NOT grace my machine again until final, and ONLY if the reports are favorable, and maybe then I'll start coding for it. Like many other Mac users, I'll be (very, very sadly) using IE 5.0 for regular use until then.

#14 Maybe NOt official?

by quarkness

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 4:05 AM

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I went to netcenter and there is no mention of pr2?! Just pr1. Based on the reactions I hope they're just testing the ftp servers or something and this is not the final pr2?

They know better than this, or not?!

#15 Nope, it is

by Anon

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 4:14 AM

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Go here ( <http://www.netscape.com/c…uting/download/index.html> ), on the right side you'll see "Netscape 6, Now Available With Themes!" Click that and you'll be moved to a similar download page with the "Netscape 6 Preview Release 2" subheader. :(

#16 weird

by quarkness

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 4:42 AM

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Very weird... It looks like a banner for a netscape credit card :) I didn't see it at first. If you got to Netscape -> download... they still point at netscape 6 pr1.

I'm still hoping it's just a bad dream. Why don't they just release one of the m18 builds witth the classic skin default. Rave reviews everywhere! Oh well, I was never good at marketing...

Is it just my connection or is Netcenter terribly slow these days, I have to use ie or mozilla to see the pages, netscape refuses to show the tables till they're done, and they never fully load...

#17 Modern Skin

by thales

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 5:15 AM

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Why are you surprised that the Netcenter Ad (Modern skin) is the default? Netscape has ignored all the negative reactions to it since last October. It isn't going away. It dosen't matter how much you hate it, because marketing loves it. Last month I visited my parents while I was on vacation. I was talking to my mother while she was watching her soap operas. On a TV show I was paying NO attention to, somebody was using a computer. Netscape PR1 was on the screen! It's that eye catching. It stands out from any other UI. With AOL/Time-Warner's ability to stick that in hundreds of Movies, TV shows, and other media, Modern is a great marketing tool. If you look at the Modern skin as a Netcenter ad and a marketing tool instead of a UI, then you will realize there is zero chance that any other skin will ever be the default Netscape skin. The best you can hope for is a new Netcenter ad that is better at it's secondary function (Default UI in Netscape) and a different default skin in Mozilla.

#57 lol n/t

by badben

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 6:25 AM

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/

#18 Modern Skin

by thales

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 5:16 AM

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Why are you surprised that the Netcenter Ad (Modern skin) is the default? Netscape has ignored all the negative reactions to it since last October. It isn't going away. It dosen't matter how much you hate it, because marketing loves it. Last month I visited my parents while I was on vacation. I was talking to my mother while she was watching her soap operas. On a TV show I was paying NO attention to, somebody was using a computer. Netscape PR1 was on the screen! It's that eye catching. It stands out from any other UI. With AOL/Time-Warner's ability to stick that in hundreds of Movies, TV shows, and other media, Modern is a great marketing tool. If you look at the Modern skin as a Netcenter ad and a marketing tool instead of a UI, then you will realize there is zero chance that any other skin will ever be the default Netscape skin. The best you can hope for is a new Netcenter ad that is better at it's secondary function (Default UI in Netscape) and a different default skin in Mozilla.

#20 test

by ezh <ezh@menelon.ee>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 6:39 AM

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test

#21 Where's the full version?

by ezh <ezh@menelon.ee>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 6:41 AM

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Is there a full install somewhere? I do not want this stupid SmartDownload... I just want DL the whole archive on my computer and then distribute it for my friends!

#62 Re: Where's the full version?

by johnlar <johnlar@tfn.net>

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 11:55 AM

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#25 Activator

by tswan

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 8:14 AM

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For the love of decency, they could have at least said this is optional, and put a button for "No, I don't want to do this." Fortunately you can cancel from that point, but tell people they can cancel. This is going to lose a lot of people.

Please don't succomb to imitating IE's behavoir.

Not having to do, or be asked to do, all that wonderful form filling, is one of the 'features' I love most about Navigator and the Mozilla releases.

Aside from my gripe. The Mozilla group has made wonderful strides since M16. Congratulations on another milestone!

#26 Why another preview?

by Hard_Code

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 8:15 AM

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I swear if I see one more preview I'm going to puke. Netscape has been teasing everybody with these damn previews. Either get the product out or don't. Don't stay in some prolonged eternal-preview stage. I say three previews is pushing it way too far. One preview, fine. Two, and we're clued in to the fact you're schedule has slipped. Three, and we know you're just toying with us while you screw around.

#33 Re: Why another preview?

by FrodoB

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 10:35 AM

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Well, to be fair, Netscape did plan to do three previews.... 1 was basically laughable, 2 is feature complete (but still basically laughable), 3 should be usable, since the memory usage won't suck so badly.

#27 Netscape 6 Milestones

by dave532

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 8:39 AM

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Perhaps all this crap wouldn't have happened if Netscape were open with the releases of their commercial builds and had allowed interested Mozilla.org people to download the Netscape Commerical nightlies as well as the mozilla.org nightlies. Why all this confidentiality over the Netscape 6 product on a nightly basis we all know it's gonna be mozilla with a lot of the commercial cruft. OK most Mozilla.org people will prefer the mozilla nightlies and will download them but there's enough people who'd really like to see Netscape make a success out of this and would be willing to test the Netscape 6 nightlies just to ensure that Netscape 6 will be a decent browser so the market share of people using Mozilla based browsers will be high and people will design pages for it.

#47 I agree n/t

by Netvigator

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 2:42 PM

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#29 Java issues too - Netscape 6 PR2

by darnell

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 9:43 AM

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It does not handle Java too well either. Try using a site that uses Java based controls from site navigation. The whole browser locks up on Win NT 4 SP 6a when you try to use any Java control. I even tried a java control on <http://www.javasoft.com> and it locked up. Just try clicking the link in the applet on the right side of the screen.

Even sites with that "Punch the Money" banner ad will cause the browser to lock up if the banner is Java based. You try to punch the monkey and it's lights out for the whole browser.

This build sucks. It should have not been released.

#32 I had no problems with Java (n/t)

by mozineAdmin

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 10:34 AM

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.

#52 Re: I had no problems with Java (n/t)

by darnell

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 8:23 PM

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I have been able to duplicate this problem on a PC with Windows 2000 Professional and SP1.

This happens on most Java based navigation controls that are on a page with other HTML code. The site applet menu at Javasoft.com <http://www.javasoft.com/> does not cause the error, but on the right side of that front page there is an "Industry News" section. The news headlines are displayed by a Java applet. Clicking a headline will cause the browser to lockup. I would like to see if someone else tries this and has the same result.

#59 Re: Java issues too - Netscape 6 PR2

by darnell

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 10:41 AM

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I just checked the known issues for the M17 release at <http://www.mozilla.org/pr…s/m17-detail.html#general> .

This appears to be a known issue: "Loading problems (possible crash or freeze) sometimes occur on pages that contain Java applets. "

#31 The Windows Installer works Now

by Tekhir

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 10:31 AM

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I d/l it last not at home and the installer gave me troubles. But today at work it worked fine. Although it could just be because I'm on a different network.

#34 Re: The Windows Installer works Now

by sdm

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 11:12 AM

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The problems last night were partly because the installer referenced internal netscape urls (sweetlou.mcom.com) for the beginning of the process.

#35 WaSP: This is the cost!

by ravi_n

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 11:58 AM

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The Netscape PR2 horror stories I've seen are straightforward consequences of the WaSP letter (and other Mozilla/Netscape criticism I've seem). They complained Netscape wasn't producing a browser fast enough, so Netscape rushed on PR2. Foolish, in that the PR2 release will only further damage Netscape's credibility (which is very said because Mozilla M17 rocks!), but very human. I suspect that if Netscape had waited a few days or a week after M17 to release PR2, it would have been much cooler and suprised a lot of people, but we'll never know.

#37 Exactly. (n/t)

by mozineAdmin

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:32 PM

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.

#39 Re: WaSP: FUD.

by jelwell

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:45 PM

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Netscape has a higher authority than the clueless WaSP.

#70 Re: Re: WaSP: FUD.

by ess

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 8:06 PM

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How sickening if this were WaSP-by-proxy, though: our response to that vapid flamage is of course quite rightly "Bite me, Jeffy," but if the boss took the spew to heart, well...

Only the AOL/Netscape project scapeg^W leader knows for sure.

#76 Re: WaSP: This is the cost!

by LarryWest42

Thursday August 10th, 2000 10:46 AM

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You actually believe AOLscape changed their plans because of the WaSP letter?

This seems very unlikely.

In passing I should mention that every reaction I've seen here to that letter has ranged from hypersensitive to hysterical. Relax, folks, it was just some honest folks voicing sincere opinions from their (uninformed) perspective. The best response is calm explanation and good code.

#38 can't connect to Netcenter

by NikoP

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 12:36 PM

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I wanted to download PR2 (AFTER I read the 'impressions' here at MozZine), but I can't connenct to Netcenter, not through netcenter.com, not home.netscape.com.

#41 Give it another try...

by Netvigator

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 1:04 PM

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Seems to be working for me now. Give it another try

#42 Hotmail?

by unbekannt

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 1:11 PM

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Why doesn't hotmail give any information back to me when I use Mozilla? It almost seems like Microsoft is writing custom pages for different browsers and they don't have one for Moz.

#44 Hotmail?

by unbekannt

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 1:13 PM

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Why doesn't hotmail give any information back to me when I use Mozilla? It almost seems like Microsoft is writing custom pages for different browsers and they don't have one for Moz.

#46 Full Download

by Alastor <rowanmulder@zonnet.nl>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 2:00 PM

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You can now download the complete package of Netscape 6 PR2 at the FTP, it's 16.54 MB

#48 ZDNET on PR2

by jakubusa

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 3:19 PM

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A review appeared on ZDNET. As can be expected, does not paint a very rosy picture of the Netscape 6.0 future. Based on this review, I doubt there will be much excitement. And the viewer comments are overwhelmingly negative as well.

<http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn…,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01>

#51 Not nearly as bad as I was expecting

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 7:46 PM

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It wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting, especially since it's coming out of ZDNet.

<:3)~~

#63 not bad at all

by balram

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 12:13 PM

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This is a good report. All it does is list the new features and doesn't go into politics. As far as i can remember, ZDNet gave a bad, bad review of PR1.

#49 Please Tell AOL: 686 vs 386

by Mike_Cornall

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 3:31 PM

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There has been some negative feedback on Linux Today coming from people who were finding Netscape 6 PR2 to be extremely unstable. Some posters think they have this narrowed down, in that, the people who are having a lot of trouble have a regular Pentium, not a PII. Looking at the Netscape download, the file name does indeed say "686".

If anyone reading this has the right connections, can you please inform the AOL brass that they desperately need to include a version compiled for the 386. Thanks.

#50 works sooo slow

by Kerem <kerem@softhome.net>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 6:22 PM

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my comp is 166mhz/32mb ram and I had never heard it making so much noise. Netscape was so slow that I had to quit pr2 by using "ctrl+alt+del". not so good news...

#58 Re: works sooo slow

by locka <adamlock@eircom.net>

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 9:14 AM

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That's not surprising considering your machine's specification and the lack of optimization in NS6 (particularly for memory consumption) in PR2. Your poor machine is probably paging like crazy.

Memory issues will be addressed for the next release, though I doubt performance for you machine will ever be that great.

Stick with an earlier version or upgrade to a new machine. It runs fine on my 450mz machine and that's not even entry level nowadays.

#71 P-166 w 32 MB: me too.

by ess

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 8:15 PM

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The nightly builds go acceptably on my P-166, 32 MB RAM running (heh...) Win95. Not the most sprightly application, but certainly worth using. Memory consumption is indeed the stickiest point, but the progress reports are not often without a tale of memory saved here or there. We'll see...

#81 I'm a testing

by mozineAdmin

Tuesday September 5th, 2000 6:31 PM

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I'm a testing

#53 Suicide

by Pyro

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 8:55 PM

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It seems that the old Netscape management has either disintegrated or been subject to so much AOL training that they don't know how to run a good company anymore. Listening to all this bashing of PR2, I'm not even going to bother downloading it. Before you release a beta, you are suppsoed to document all the known issues. You are supposed to give it somewhat of a polished look. You have to make it faster, if at the expense of a little functionality.

I think AOL's goal is to destroy the Netscape name...they buy Netscape, then completely kill them by re-signing the IE contract. They won't even allow Netscape a fighting chance - they have to kill Netscape's name. If PR3 isn't a godsend, then they shouldn't even release this new browser as Netscape - change the name to iPlanet - new name, new reputation.

#54 What are you guys talking about???

by rgelb <nospam@nospam.com>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 9:27 PM

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PR2 is the stablest I've ever seen Moz. It hasn't crashed for me today yet, even though the other milestones & dailies always crashed.

#55 Re: Mileage varies

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Tuesday August 8th, 2000 9:45 PM

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It depends a lot on the computer being used. People with older computers say that it's slow, and people with only 32 MB of RAM will say the same also.

Performance and memory improvements are expected to get more focus in the next coming milestones.

<:3)~~

#60 Screw Netscape/AOL....

by samfish

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 11:24 AM

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I'm sticking with the Mozilla builds. Why is the PR build almost 10 megs bigger than the Milestone build? I don't want all the AOL crap that they add in anyways. Good riddance AOL/Netscape, Hello Mozilla.

#72 Re: Screw Netscape/AOL....

by locka <adamlock@eircom.net>

Thursday August 10th, 2000 5:37 AM

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It's bigger because it contains the JRE and several other extra bits. If you don't want these then choose the custom installation and don't install them!

#61 Screw Netscape/AOL....

by samfish

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 11:25 AM

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I'm sticking with the Mozilla builds. Why is the PR build almost 10 megs bigger than the Milestone build? I don't want all the AOL crap that they add in anyways. Good riddance AOL/Netscape, Hello Mozilla.

#74 Re: Screw Netscape/AOL....

by huputthe

Thursday August 10th, 2000 8:41 AM

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My feelings exactly-- Mozilla is always way ahead of Netscape in speed, reliability, and new developments. Since trying PR1, I refuse to try PR2 (or PR3, when that comes out). AOL/Netscape is busy marketing themselves and shooting themselves in the foot, whereas Mozilla is quickly developing and testing new releases. I only wish more people knew about Mozilla and how different it really is from Netscape.

If only Mozilla could find a way to break from Netscape, people would have a better browser. Unfortunately, it won't happen.

#64 Netscape 6 download areas done well

by balram

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 12:21 PM

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Netscape seems to have done the marketing in the Netscape 6 page well. Any user visiting it will be impressed.

The problem is that Netscape isn't doing the rest of the marketing well at all. IMO, good marketing is Netscape's key to success in the browser market.

#66 https is VERY slow in PR2!

by igor_irina

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 4:46 PM

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Have anybody tried https in PR2? My impression it's just crawls, being much much slower than any other browser I have.

#67 Re: https is VERY slow in PR2!

by darnell

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 5:22 PM

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Get a M18 nightly build. They run much faster.

#68 opens with classic, and works well

by shelleyp <shelleyp@yasd.com>

Wednesday August 9th, 2000 5:58 PM

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My download was flawless, I didn't have to do anything wierd, and the browesr is working without a hitch. In addition, the browser opened with the classic skin. I'm running the Windows version. Not sure why I seem to be having different results than other folks.

#73 Actually

by Anon

Thursday August 10th, 2000 5:43 AM

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After more and more use, PR2 is actually pretty cool now ;D

I may use it instead of 4.74 from now on if I replace the quicklaunch button and the button on my RapidAccess keyboard. However, how is it possible to check my Webmail? It asked me during installation, but never encountered it again. I heard you could check your Webmail with Netscape Mail.

I'd rather use an M18 nightly, but I can't figure out how to install the nim.xpi file for use with M18 :(

#80 Re: Actually

by CraigJ

Friday August 11th, 2000 6:04 PM

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I finally downloaded the PR2 whole package for Linux and got it installed, after installer failures. It seems to work more or less well now, although obviously need speeding up, and closing mem leaks. The classic skin is much prettier than the modern, but it seems Netscape is trying to distinguish it from 4.x, so nobody gets them confused (as if)!

Anyway, the mailer supports multiple boxes, as we all know, but won't POP Netscape webmail, because their POP server is not available now. 8(

#75 Another review

by jakubusa

Thursday August 10th, 2000 9:44 AM

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CNET has posted a huge review. This one is really positive, it sounds like they cannot wait to see a useable alternative to IE released in its final version. One thing is unclear though. They first state that v. 6.0 will be released by the end of next year, but in their wrapup they changed it to the end of this year. Which one is true?

<http://cnet.com/internet/…t.cn.1.prl.3779-7-1581673>

#77 Where?

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Thursday August 10th, 2000 7:47 PM

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I don't see the reference to the "end of next year," which doesn't sound right. So far all clues point to late this year.

As much as I want Netscape to be more patient and careful when making their branded versions of Mozilla, another year is too much for the first release of 6.0.

#78 Another NS6 date

by Anon

Friday August 11th, 2000 5:12 AM

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<http://news.excite.com/ne…808/14/tech-netscape-flaw> states "The flaw is expected to be fixed in Netscape 6.0, a new version that the company is expected to release within the next few months."

#82 test

by mozineAdmin

Friday September 15th, 2000 4:56 PM

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test