MozillaZine

Teaser - Native-looking Widgets for Windows

Wednesday May 24th, 2000

Did you try the chatzilla link? Here's what it looks like with Ben Goodger's Windows widgets, done up using XUL and XBL. Here's the preferences panel. It's not part of the nightlies, so you'll have to just enjoy the pretty pictures for now!


#1 DROOL! DROOL!

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Wednesday May 24th, 2000 11:51 PM

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Okay, now that we have the teaser, when can we expect the trailer?

Okay, all this waiting is making me suffer ::starts praying to the Skin and Chrome Gods::

<:3)~~

#2 I want this

by Hendy99 <gbhendy1@bigpond.net.au>

Thursday May 25th, 2000 12:00 AM

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bah just give it to me!!!!!!!!

#3 coming soon to builds near you...

by Ben_Goodger

Thursday May 25th, 2000 12:26 AM

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Those of you with build environments can pull and build this. To do so, grab mozilla/themes/classic and make in classic. It does not appear in nightlies currently because

a) Nightly builds do not install skins automatically as debug builds do, so it'd be non functional unless you ran the skin installer yourself. b) I do not want heaps of bugs filed on something that is in development ;)

Thus far I've only got windows widgets going, but the plan is for separate Mac and Unix sets too.

#4 Re: coming soon to builds near you...

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Thursday May 25th, 2000 1:05 AM

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Okay, makes sense, too bad I don't have a complier handy ...

Keep up the great work.

<:3)~~

#5 Finally...

by Waldo

Thursday May 25th, 2000 1:27 AM

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Some native widgets.. These can only be used in the XUL chrome right? That is, a web page which uses radio buttons or whatever is still going to show the old crappy mozilla widgets, huh?

Well, it's a start. Can't wait for the Mac ones to come online. And Aqua too :)

W

#6 These look great

by janahan

Thursday May 25th, 2000 4:01 AM

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I dont know about others, but I find these control looking very professional. I would REALLY enjoy using mozilla with them.

This should satisfy the "naysayers" that keep complaining about mozilla's" wierd look.

#7 Well, they're ugly...

by leafdigital

Thursday May 25th, 2000 4:06 AM

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...but convincing. So, good work.

--sam

#8 Question

by bogado

Thursday May 25th, 2000 6:41 AM

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Just a question, is this a simulated windows look or it's actualy using windows native widgets? I'm asking this because as far as I know (witch is not as much as I wanted to) mozilla is themable in the widget level, but I dind't know that this themability would go as far as changing the code so it would use native widgets. :-/

#11 It's simulated (N/T) <:3)~~

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Thursday May 25th, 2000 10:19 AM

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It's simulated (N/T) <:3)~~

#20 What about schemes?

by dhickey <f43@hotmail.com>

Sunday May 28th, 2000 3:42 PM

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Will the app look different to the rest of the programs if people are using different schemes such as "Rainy Day"?

#9 Coloring?

by mani

Thursday May 25th, 2000 7:50 AM

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Does the Mozilla XUL/widget engine allow for widget sets to use different color schemes?

This is important if, say the windows user changes the color scheme to some other setting; will this windows widget set reflect this change?

#14 Re: Coloring?

by Dan6992

Thursday May 25th, 2000 3:25 PM

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Mozilla widgets are styled using CSS and CSS2 allows for the use of system colors. Since we don't have copy of the new widget files to look at it's hard to say if Ben designed these new widgets with hard coded colors or system colors, but I'd bet it's the later. If not I'd almost guarantee that someone, maybe even me, will pick through his CSS and convert it all over to using system colors.

#17 Re: Re: Coloring?

by Ben_Goodger

Friday May 26th, 2000 3:34 AM

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I used system colours and CSS2/3 system fonts (thanks, Michael Lowe, for the excellent Win32 GFX hookup for CSS2/3 system fonts recently!)

#23 Re: Re: Re: Coloring?

by Dan6992

Monday May 29th, 2000 10:31 PM

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>(thanks, Michael Lowe, for the > excellent Win32 GFX hookup for CSS2/3 > system fonts recently!)

Yipee! I've been waiting and wondering about when/if system fonts were going to be hooked up. Thanks Michael :)

#10 Unix

by stephan <stephan@micropop.com>

Thursday May 25th, 2000 8:22 AM

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*Please* don't make the Unix skin a Motif skin. *Please*!

#12 Trailer!

by JPrismon <Josh@xor.com>

Thursday May 25th, 2000 10:23 AM

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#16 Re: Trailer!

by danielhill <danielhill@hotmail.com>

Friday May 26th, 2000 2:21 AM

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Excellent work! Looks very good. Will this be shipped by default?

#13 WOW!

by Kovu <Kovu401@netscape.net>

Thursday May 25th, 2000 11:49 AM

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That ROCKS. Ben Goodger: YOU ROCK!

#15 Nice!

by kc7gza

Thursday May 25th, 2000 5:02 PM

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Remember all those long dissusions we had here and on the newsgroups about people being frieghtened away from mozilla because the widgets don't look like the rest of their programs? Well we won't ever need to have one again. All those end users will have widgets that look just like they are used to.

Good Job Ben!

#18 Re: Nice!

by Darchmare <jeff@newdream.net>

Friday May 26th, 2000 3:00 PM

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Sorry to say, that's not necessarily true. While the widgets may look real, the real test is what happens if you use a system-wide theming system (for example, Kaleidoscope or the MacOS theming capabilities). Will the changes take effect? Nope.

What if Apple or another vendor makes changes to the look of the widgets. Do they take effect in Mozilla? Nope.

Furthermore, even if Mozilla captures the look perfectly, the behavior is far more difficult. I have yet to see a non-native UI in any application perfectly mirror a true native UI.

#24 Re: Re: Nice!

by Dan6992

Monday May 29th, 2000 10:48 PM

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"I have yet to see a non-native UI in any application perfectly mirror a true native UI."

Obviously you have never looked at IE4/5 for Windows! Because contrary to popular belief those are not native widgets! I know if you look close enough you will notice the subtle differences between native widgets and the ones used in IE4/5, but all in all they act and feel enough like the real thing to please 99% of the people 99% of the time. And in the case of list boxes, which are the only native widgets used in IE, they suffer from scripting and style problems and cause headaches for developers. Now Mozilla may not be able to mimic the look and feel of native widgets exactly but they are doing a hell of a job considering they don't have the luxury of an "in" with the developers of the OS like the IE development team does :)

#19 Really dumb question

by danielhill <danielhill@hotmail.com>

Saturday May 27th, 2000 4:19 AM

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Will this affect the document's form elements, or is it just the chrome?

As you probably know, the document's form controls look different to the controls in dialog boxes, and I'm unsure if it's possible to use a package like this to alter the document's form elements.

#21 widgets

by cristiana <cristiana@cloud13.com>

Monday May 29th, 2000 10:24 AM

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I think its funny that in the open source world we are trying to standardize the look of our widgets, and apps, but in the commercial world everyone is trying to differentiate themselves by using a differnent widget set for each of their apps.

For example look at the real audio g2 player or the new ms media player. Do they look standardized, no. And look at apples fare, once the bastion of consistency in ui design, quicktime 4 and sherlock 2. The ui of sherlock2 reminds me of some unix file manager from 1990, i for one am against using photos as buttons, they look unprofessional, use ICONS.

anyway enough of my rant. but us in the open source world should not be as worried as we are.

cristiana

#22 Re: widgets

by FrodoB

Monday May 29th, 2000 9:30 PM

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Don't use Quicktime 4 as a benchmark against anything. Apple knows they screwed that one up, and they're fixing it in MacOS X (and I suppose the next version of Quicktime in general).

#25 Fantastic

by cybr

Tuesday May 30th, 2000 2:18 PM

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This should be the default skin for Windows Netscape/Mozilla.