MozillaZine

Weekend Discussion

Friday May 5th, 2000

Has the Web revolution just begun? Or is the Web already in a phase of decreasing returns? Are the Web's possibilities boundless, or nearing exhaustion?

Are you still having fun? Is the Web a new learning experience every day? Or are you overwhelmed (or underwhelmed) with new standards, new programming paradigms, new letters like 'i', 'e', and 'x'? Is the Web still your friend? Or is it the monkey on your back?


#1 Worst Comment Ever

by bloviate

Friday May 5th, 2000 9:49 PM

Reply to this message

I'm pretty sure the Web is not the monkey on my back. And how did you know there was a monkey on my back?

#2 Because he was placing calls on your cell (n/t)

by mozineAdmin

Friday May 5th, 2000 9:56 PM

Reply to this message

.

#3 My Thoughts

by Tanyel <tanyel@straightblack.com>

Friday May 5th, 2000 11:17 PM

Reply to this message

The "Web revolution" has not just begun but the Tanyel revolution has. The "Web's possibilities" are not boundless but there is still much more that lies in the future.

I do not have much fun with the Internet but I enjoy adding to it quite much. It is a new learning experience often, as many things are. I am not overwhelmed by new standards although I do not necessarily care about them. I do not see them as "revolutions". The i, e, and x are just letters to me. The "Web" is not my friend or enemy but it is one of my playgrounds.

#4 bunch of hacks

by lunatic <lunatic@e-net.co.kr>

Saturday May 6th, 2000 12:52 AM

Reply to this message

I think today's web is a big bunch of hacks. With just 2 yrs of experience, I might be wrong. But all web-based projects have costed me too much pain.

I think dot com's are killing web's potential. I admit many web technologies might not be even invented without them, but they have commercialized the web too early, and they are a barrier to web's potential now.

And I just hope new open source projects like Mozilla take the control of web back.

To sum, I think it's not the web itself or web-based technologies but various dot com's that is killing the web today.

(sorry for the poor English)

#17 Re: bunch of hacks

by locka <adamlock@eircom.net>

Monday May 8th, 2000 5:24 PM

Reply to this message

Don't worry about the dot-coms. Half of them will be dead inside of two years.

#5 The web revolution

by basic <_basic@yahoo.com>

Saturday May 6th, 2000 12:57 AM

Reply to this message

The web revolution is going through changes. It used to be just putting up a page. Now we are talking about using it to do businesses, use it as an interactive media. Overwhelmed by standards? Sort of, still a student here, trying to keep up while learning what they are all about is not easy, but I can see the huge potential. I've not been too impressed by the 'e's much less the 'i's but the 'x's seems to be where it is. Mozilla is sitting right in the middle of it (if not it is very close), from my standpoint.

With all this going on one wonder why responsibilities are not taken seriously... <http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-1820959.html>

#6 no news = good news

by jilles

Saturday May 6th, 2000 4:53 AM

Reply to this message

No news is good news I guess.

I don't believe in revolutions. I think the average web user couldn't care less what's going on at mozilla.

Mozilla (when finished) will start a painfully slow transition to a more standardized web. I think it is going to take years to complete this process. For webusers it will just appear as evolution of the web, most likely they will hardly notice when sites will become compliant with the various websites.

From a pure technology perspective the coming few years are going to be interesting. Loads of people are investing loads of money in web related stuff so something interesting should happen. I just don't think it will have any revolutionary impact on society. It all fits in with the evolutionary, technology driven change that has been going on for the past few centuries. Probably the introduction of the web was a relatively quick step in this evolution (it took about five years for most people to get online).

#13 Re: no news = good news

by jesse <jruderman@hmc.edu>

Sunday May 7th, 2000 6:05 PM

Reply to this message

Having one browser that conforms to the non-ambiguous aspects is mostly good (except for when the standards goof, such as in <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34981> ), but people will continue making pages that are ambiguous to the standards pages unless <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6211> is implemented and future versions of HTML say "browsers should not interpret the new tags in this version unless a doctype is given".

#15 Re: Re: no news = good news

by Tanyel <tanyel@straightblack.com>

Sunday May 7th, 2000 11:09 PM

Reply to this message

"the standards goof"

"browsers should not interpret the new tags in this version unless a doctype is given"

Do these statements mean somebody actually listened to me?

#7 You will never "see" the real web revolu

by ERICmurphy <murphye@gmail.com>

Saturday May 6th, 2000 9:07 AM

Reply to this message

If you refer to the Internet as a bunch of web pages and e-mail, well, it cannot go much further than it already is. Soon we will reach a saturation point where pages will die as fast as they are created, but that might not be for a little while. Also, e-mail is likely to evolve into a hybrid with instant messaging.

The real growth of the Internet is going to come in raw data (Likely to be XML) transfer and embedded device communications. I think the Business-to-Business using the Internet idealogy will finally start to happen with the coming of standards, which is likely to be XML.

By integrated devices, I am talking about everything to your refrigerator to your car. Now, if everyone's refrigerator to their car uses the Internet, that is going to be a significant portion of Internet traffic.

We have seen all the Internet we will ever want to. Now it should be put to work in unseen ways.

#8 sometimes I'm still amazed...

by sdm

Saturday May 6th, 2000 12:18 PM

Reply to this message

...but it's getting rarer and rarer. I find myself visiting the same old sites everyday. I get bored. But, the other day I typed in an old friend's phone number in the url bar, and up came her name and email address. I was quite impressed! Ok, I'm not a stalker, promise....

#9 Only just begun

by Kovu <Kovu401@netscape.net>

Saturday May 6th, 2000 2:18 PM

Reply to this message

Trying to gauge the Internet's potential is like looking at your 2-year-old and trying to figure out what he/she will want to do with his/her life. It's a technology just beginning to start multimedia convergence in this world, and broadband being widespread will be a big part of that. In two years you won't even recognize the Internet. It has barely begun to show, much less fill, its potential.

I will say I'm getting tired of the "dial-up" Internet, right now pages are made specifically to be fast to d/l and that stifles a lot of innovation.

#10 Playtime is over, Now let's get serious!

by yancey

Saturday May 6th, 2000 9:55 PM

Reply to this message

I feel that the newness of the web is beginning to wear off and people are looking for something different to keep their attention.

Along those lines, the web will have to become more valuable than it is fun and interesting. It is high time that standards took over and we really begin to do useful things with the web instead of seeing how exciting we can make a flash presentation.

I want to see a web where I can actually DO things on the web, not just see stuff. I want to be able to schedule my own classes, not just see the schedule. I want to be able to pay bills, not just see my account balance. The web should enable us to do things we otherwise could not. I don't need another electronic newspaper or fan site. Show me a web that saves me time and money. Otherwise, I'm gonna go watch T.V. because the web just isn't that interesting anymore.

#11 Re: Playtime is over, Now let's get serious!

by aengblom <aengblom@gwu.edu>

Sunday May 7th, 2000 1:55 PM

Reply to this message

Thanks to Y2K, I *CAN* register for my classes via the web! So some things like that are coming. There are some websites that help you pay bills and if you don't wanna watch how much you spend, many utility companies can charge your credit card and a number of them can w/d directly from your checking account! :)

I Just can't wait until we forget it's the web and the information just appears :)

#12 Re: Re: Playtime is over, Now let's get serious!

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Sunday May 7th, 2000 3:22 PM

Reply to this message

You poor thing, you had to wait til after Y2K before you could register your classes online?

<:3)~~ <---- spoiled college brat :)

#14 It comes in waves

by enoosphere

Sunday May 7th, 2000 7:38 PM

Reply to this message

The Internet revolution has only just begun. Mass-market penetration of broadband and ultra broadband connections to the Net are still on the horizon. Site pages will evolve from static text pages to multimedia applications. The potential of the Internet cannot be judged until high definition video and audio become integral pieces of any "web page". There are exciting times ahead, no question.

#16 Paradigm shift

by Hard_Code

Monday May 8th, 2000 8:01 AM

Reply to this message

I'm all for the open standards of the Web, but, although I hate to say it, I think the web is really due for a change. HTML is now in its fourth iteration. There is only SO much you can do on a statically rendered page. All these years we've been coming up with better kludges and hacks to get around the fundamental static-ness of the web. CGI, Servlets, JSP, ASP, JavaScript, DOM, all in many grotesquely complex backend systems, just to make good on the promise of an "interactive" medium. Let's face it: the web was NEVER designed to be interactive. It has always been passive. A plain web page has never /interacted/ with me. The user always drives. So we've come up with solutions to shove pseudo-interactivity into the web...we push applets, we stream pages and pseudo-realtime update them, we use Flash and streaming plugins to fill the holes of interactivity. Several new fields of internet tools have been created...instant messaging, distributed file sharing. I think the web really needs a transformation from a pure static platform agnostic medium to something truly /interactive/. And I think Mozilla just might be it. Mozilla is more than just a web "browser". It is truly the first web /application/. You have web widgets and inherent dynamicity. Things can be pushed and augmented in real time. Instead of kludgy backends, we have a dynamic _front end_. We don't need to dynamically generate content on the back end...we push the application to the user in a dynamic front end. And this is multi-protocol...HTTP itself cannot deliver on interactivity. This dynamic front end can really represent the "web" dynamically. The "page" metaphor is really deader than a doornail for anything other than online texts. Please, let's move to a brighter future.

(rant over ;)

#18 The road goes ever on and on...

by Orinoco

Thursday May 11th, 2000 8:19 PM

Reply to this message

Web, Internet, same thing. I've been her e since '91. The thing which strikes me is how little things change. Oh, the corporates and PR flacks are constantly crowing over Digital this and Convergence that, but my sister's favorite app is ICQ, eight years after I first logged on to IRC. Mail is still the core. Even discussion groups like this are simply re-hashes of the decades old usenet news system. The speed improves, the interfaces get prettier, but the thing the Internet always did was connect people. That's the key. People talking to people. The advertising may say different, but that's just pretty lies to make you buy things. Surely you know that by now.

It can't be denied that the Net is changing things out there in the 'real world'. To hash an old topic, the Recording Industries are suddenly finding that they can no longer charge lots of money just to copy 600Mb files. Economies are in upheaval. The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy is being made flesh. When you change the way people relate to each other, a lot of other things which depended on those relations will change chaotically. More people log on daily. The eventual goal is everyone, everywhere. Resistance is futile. :-)

As long as this free, unrestricted personal communication continues, the corporates can fill as many billboards as they like, the legislators can pass as many laws as they like, and the internet will, at heart, stay the same. It may even improve as the technology arrives to make the Great Conversation even more intense.

Of course there are many power stuctures with vested interests in silence and complicity, but every attempt to restrict the flow has resulted with the pipes exploding in their faces. People love to talk.

The revolution continues. The wheel turns, and turns, often bringing us old ideas with a new twist. Each revolution takes us a little further along the road. Wherever we're going. Maybe there is no destination? just the journey, and the friends we meet along the way. Enjoy the ride.

~ Orinoco