Tuesday April 18th, 2000
Mozilla has hit M15. Grab it at the ftp site. Versions currently available for Mac, Windows, Linux, and OpenVMS. You can read the M15 release notes here. And please join us in #mozillazine on irc.mozilla.org to talk about the latest release!
Tuesday April 18th, 2000 9:46 PM
I am cheering just for the fact that the sidebar snaps close and stays close! The M16 builds have been "rebounding" the side bar and refusing to close unless I drag it.
#2 Re: YAY
Tuesday April 18th, 2000 10:40 PM
The big irony here is that after downloading the netscape 6 beta at school, I went for a nightly at home and it just didn't really work. So I held off on nightlies for a while...
Then tonight I went for it and it looked pretty good. Then lo and behold, like a half hour after I installed the nightly, the milestone was released! hehe
But yeah I noticed the rebound problem in the brief time I used that nightly. I also noticed that down arrow next to the locatation bar is gone also...
#3 The arrow is in the M16 nightlies N/T <:3)~~
Tuesday April 18th, 2000 10:53 PM
The arrow is in the M16 nightlies N/T <:3)~~
#11 Re: Re: YAY
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 1:32 AM
That's funny; EXACTLY the same happened to me :) I got a nightly, now M15 is out :)
#4 Some info. on what's new...
Tuesday April 18th, 2000 10:59 PM
For those people (like me) who haven't been getting all the nightlies, here are some reasons to download this. As an aside, I think this would have made a much better preview release than M14, but oh well, I guess it will always be like that.
History works! You get a history.dat file and links change color after you've been somewhere and it keeps it after restarting the browser, etc... woohoo!
Not only that bug the disc cache works. I enabled it in the debug preferences and set a directory (not sure if setting the directory was necessary), and has been putting stuff in it and not downloading stuff from scratch as I surf.
I remember someone mentioning wanting to be able to increase and decrease the font size. There are options for that on the view menu and they do work. The only bug is you have to manually hit reload in order to see the difference (but since the cache works that doesn't take so long..hehe).
There is also a nifty feature where you can search your bookmarks and history from a special dialog search dialog box, with results listed in a tree (like the windows search or sherlock).
So, overall I think this is a major improvement over M14. Things really seem like they're coming together now...
P.S. Posted with Mozilla M15 =)
#19 Re: Some info. on what's new...
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 7:08 AM
> There is also a nifty feature where you can search your bookmarks and history from a special dialog search dialog box, with results listed in a tree (like the windows search or sherlock).
this is really old. In fact in the nightlies, it seems to be slowly dissapearing. It used to look almost exactly the same as sherlock, and now its squished in the sidebar.
Its also broaken a LOT.
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 8:01 AM
Well, I first really noticed this when I got the nightly for yesterday, 200041808 I think. It seemed like it was working and in its own dialog. Wouldn't that be latest nightly besides todays?
#5 No Java?
Tuesday April 18th, 2000 11:20 PM
Oops... forgot to mention this in the last message. It says on the release notes that M15 ships with a special version of Java, etc., but I cannot find any Java files in the installation, and any websites I go to say my browser doesn't support java, even though I have the preference checked. (I had unchecked it before and re-checked it, but since it is staying checked now, I am assuming I didn't mess it up somehow...hehe).
I downloaded the win32 fullcircle file. I never did install the preview release on this computer, so I don't have Java 2 installed, but then again it said in the notes that you needed a special version of Java anyway...
So what's up? Shawn =)
#7 Re: No Java?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 12:26 AM
Java can be found in the installer package.
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 5:19 AM
Ok, I guess that makes sense. I wish they would say something about that on the website, though. All the links point to the talkback version and java is mentioned, but then only the installer version has it...
And then if someone wants to use talkback, they need to download the installer version and then the talkback?
But I'm taking for granted that if I get the java installed, then it'll stay installed (and work?) with most of the current nightlies?
And last question... is this the same version that was installed with Preview? If so, then I'd guess most people would already have it installed from that so it wouldn't be a problem...
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 9:58 PM
I just installed using the installer, and no JVM. Interesting tho, The installer file is only 5.7 megs, it can't have a JDK bundled in it. So, where do you go to download it?
#55 Re: Hmm?
Saturday April 22nd, 2000 2:17 PM
It does have the plugins, but no JVM...
#6 I decided to go back
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 12:15 AM
I've been waiting for M15 for a while now, and oddly enough... I'm disappointed. Not because M15 isn't better than M14, but because I think the nightly builds I've been using lately are way better. Just recently I noticed that the gfx scrollbars work with my logitech mouse. M15? nope. Seems like the bookmark management isn't as good either, and the performance of M15 seems a bit slower too. So basically I just switched back to the nightly build.
Anyone else notice this?
#8 Re: I decided to go back
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 12:43 AM
Remember that the nightly builds are always at least one day (most if not all are actually at least half a week) ahead of the milestone build. That will probably show how fast Moz is being developed.
#9 GIF vs PNG
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 1:13 AM
Alright, this is it! Mozilla better beef up its PNG support. Looks like more and more people would be using PNG as opposed to GIF. When would the PNG binary transparency work on win32?
Now that Unisys is jacking up the price:
I think it is even more urgent for Moz to have full PNG support (including 8-bit alpha transparency). Anybody with me? While we are at that, I think that MNG should come next so that we would have totally no reason to use GIF (except for backward compatibility).
#16 PNG nearing completion
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 6:15 AM
Proper PNG support is planned to be included in NS beta 2, as I understand it.
I've been following the progress on Bugzilla:
It seems that currently there is support for alpha-channel transparency via dithering (Screenshots etc):
and proper alpha-channel support will be forthcoming (it already works on some platforms).
#17 Ooops, forgot to say...
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 6:17 AM
...that I really respect the developers involved in putting in the effort towards making PNG work. (Some of this is help from external developers, not just Netscape's.)
Along with millions of other people I've been clamouring for PNG support with alpha channel - I was really worried that yet another major browser release would happen without this essential feature - and it looks like we're not being ignored.
Thanks guys :)
#23 I second that :-) n/t
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 11:09 AM
#28 You missed a bug
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 12:59 PM
See also http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19283 relating to binary transparency. Alpha channels are needed in the long run, but this is essential for any new browser.
#34 Re: You missed a bug
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 5:18 PM
Yes I was thinking about that bug. But judging from the last comment in that bug (4/19/2000), it's going to be fixed soon, only question is when...
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 1:29 AM
I recently posted on the japhar mailing list asking about japhar's mozilla support for linux, and this was the answer I got from them. Could anyone give them a definite answer?
> Well, we have stepped up on the plate a few times, but every time they
> remove the plate by changing the API. I don't know what the current
> status is, but I guess it should be fairly easy to update Japhar to
> support Mozilla again. Is the Mozilla JVM API stable now?
#41 Re: Japhar
Thursday April 20th, 2000 12:57 AM
Does no one know what is going on with OJI? (the newsgroup has been rather quiet lately) Or is it that SUn has taken over its development and for now it is no longer in the "open process" (meaning only Sun's engineers knows if anything is final at all, and other JVM's are not welcome?). No offence meant, but I don't know what to make of this "silence".
#48 my thoughts exactly
Thursday April 20th, 2000 2:45 PM
I've been wondering about Java on Linux, since I started testing at M10. There has never been java support in the linux builds, so no one has ever had a chance to test it. For a long time it was because there was no Java plugin for Linux, then Sun/ Blackdown released one with the Java 2 JDK, at the exact same time that they changed the OJI API.
#52 Re: Japhar
Friday April 21st, 2000 2:34 PM
One of the followup to the above email, anyone interested in giving a hand? And can anyone answer the question about the status of OJI? Or am I in the wrong place?
> The docs look cool for Japhar and I imagine that once it becomes 1.2 > equal or so it'll be a really neat VM. About how often does Japhar > do updates?
Not often enough. :-)
We have been planning a new release for months now, but no one has taken the time to iron out the last flaws and wrapping it up.
The most important thing would be Classpath support. Rumours say that the current CVS version do not work with Classpath, and we need to fix that.
If it crashes on any platform, we need to fix that as well.
Volunteers? -- ##> Petter Reinholdtsen <## | firstname.lastname@example.org
#53 Re: Japhar
Friday April 21st, 2000 2:52 PM
Saw this comment from the OJI status 3/14/2000:
3 OJI API changes George 3 No impl action until after 2 mths.
anybody knows what this means?
#12 BeOS?? Java in the Linux Build???
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 2:13 AM
I have two quick questions:
1) Does anyone actually know what the status of the BeZilla project is? I found the site and it had (complicated) instructions for building M11 via a GTK port, but what about newer builds, such as M15?
2) Someone earlier mentioned Java. Does this mean Java in Linux as well?
Is it just me, or is Mozilla really shaping up? I've been trying the daily builds since last August. Most of my friends thought I was nuts then (back around M8) but it's really starting to show some nice polish now.
Way to go Mozilla!!
#30 Re: BeOS?? Java in the Linux Build???
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 2:52 PM
I aked about the BeOS status, and they should be posting something soon. Apparently, a couple of the guys are moving.
Their philosophy is that it is best to work in spurts to bring the port up to speed, rather to do every Milestone release.
I am sure they will catch up sooner or later. As long as they get a 1.0 out along with the other platforms...
P.S. I doubt there will be a Netscape version of the port. Just Mozilla.
#13 hundreds and thousands of ports opened!?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 3:14 AM
sorry if I understand the "port" concept not clearly enough. However, when I run NETSTAT.EXE after M15 loaded a few pages, I saw hundreds of ports listed and 80% of them are linked or previously linked to the web servers of the pages I loaded. This is what I haven't seen before with NS4.7.
Sometimes it crashes too but I don't know it this the cause.
#14 Re: hundreds and thousands of ports opened!?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 4:03 AM
Is that what's happening! After surfing for a couple of minutes, I get: connection refused. If I start ns4.7 after that it gives some more info: tcp error: not enough memory.
The only thing I can do is restart windows. Haven't tried the linux buil yet.
#18 same on linux
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 7:04 AM
nightlies are fine
#21 Managing bookmarks
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 9:58 AM
I still cant move bookmarks into newly created folders. Help please...
#22 How to import old bookmarks?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 11:02 AM
How do I import my old NS4.7 bookmarks into M15?
#29 How to import old bookmarks
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 1:03 PM
Copy bookmarks.htm from your old users folder as bookmarks.html in your new users50 folder.
#31 Re: How to import old bookmarks
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 3:29 PM
Usually this doesn't work...I tried it a houndred times. Since the bookmarks.html is being overwritten or something. Now I figured, that you have to set the bookmarks.html to write only and start Mozilla...
#33 Sure you actually replaced the file?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 5:00 PM
The old Netscape 4.xx bookmark file is called "bookmark.htm" while the Mozilla bookmark file is called "bookmarks.html." So make sure you delete the Mozilla bookmark first, copy your old Netscape bookmark in place of it, and rename it to "bookmarks.html"
#24 Can Plug-ins be used?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 11:19 AM
Is there a way to use plugins with the M15 build? I have tried copying and pasting in various locations of the M15 directory to no avail.I was hoping that it would be possible to use the trick which opera users try,namely simply copying ones netscape plugins into a different plugin folder,but I cannot find a plugin folder with the M15.Any advice would be appreciated.Three Cheers for the enabling of the cache!
#25 Re: Can Plug-ins be used?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 12:02 PM
Mozilla should automatically recognize existing plugins on your computer. Shockwave Flash and Quicktime have worked seamlessly for me.
#26 TCP/IP Memory Leak!
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 12:28 PM
M15 is out... yay. Too bad the thing has a TCP/IP memory leak in it! Good luck keeping the thing running for more than a couple of minutes!!
Can they go back and fix this, and re-release M15?? (which would be a good idea, IMHO)
#27 Re: TCP/IP Memory Leak!
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 12:52 PM
Get a nightly build. M15 is old technology anyways.
#32 Disk Cache
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 4:31 PM
checking 'Disk Cache' in the debug section of prefs has done somthing for a while now. However, the only thing I've seen is that my Home page loads quickly, even after I've restarted Mozilla. It was only recently that the Disk Cache bug was marked 'fixed'. My question is, Should Disk cache be fully working in M15? I don't really want to get a new nightly at 2.5 kb/s (!) untill I know it's worth 45 minutes... I have memory cache enable too, if you're wondering
#35 Where'd the search engines go?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 7:36 PM
When the non-AOL search engines were removed from N6PR1, I assumed that they had done that for the Netscape release only. Now, it seems, that only AOL search engines are allowed in Mozilla as well. :( Is there any way to add search engines?
#36 Re: Where'd the search engines go?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 8:09 PM
You might want to look at this. http://www.mozilla.org/projects/search/technical.html
#37 Re: Re: Where'd the search engines go?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 8:40 PM
Fine but I don't want it in the sidebar. I want to be able to choose any url as my default search engine in the menus/toolbars. If you agree with this, add your comments to this bug http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32586
#38 So where is the crypto?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 9:10 PM
Where the beef?
#40 Re: So where is the crypto?
Wednesday April 19th, 2000 11:03 PM
Because of the RSA copyright, they can't bundle the Personal Security Manager (PSM) with Mozilla, only Mozilla-branded commercial releases (such as NS6 PR1). So you still have to download it separately, I link for that is in the MZ news archives, and I think Mozilla.org has the link also.
#45 Sorry didn't explain myself
Thursday April 20th, 2000 8:59 AM
I know how the crpyto works, but m14 included a builds in which there where hooks to install PSM into mozilla. It appears m15 doesn't include said hooks, I'm wondering why?
#46 Re: Sorry didn't explain myself
Thursday April 20th, 2000 10:07 AM
The hooks are there, I just checked it myself.
#49 I don't know.
Thursday April 20th, 2000 9:11 PM
Yea, PSM seemed to install fine, but when I goto any https web sites, it totally horks it. It will connect but the lock will have a line through it, selecting it will say that this website doesn't support encryption and that its not incrypted, though I know the sites do work?
#42 Mention of WinZip in Win32 install release notes
Thursday April 20th, 2000 2:53 AM
I don't think anyone's commented on this before, but have people notice that the M15 (and earlier) release notes at http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/release-notes/M15-detail.html#WIN32_INSTALL mention WinZip, which is shareware (aka a commercial product) and yet fail to mention two free equivalents:
1. "unzip" at ftp://ftp.freesoftware.com/pub/infozip/UnZip.html (Source code, binaries and a command line unpacker)
2. "PowerArchiver 2000" at http://www.powerarchiver.com/ (No source, but a full Windows-based clone of WinZip that's freeware !)
I've e-mailed email@example.com about this - at the very least they should mention the free alternatives in addition to WinZip...
#44 Re: Mention of WinZip in Win32 install release not
Thursday April 20th, 2000 6:16 AM
You also forgot Aladdin Expander, again freeware (for decompression anyway)
#58 Re: Mention of WinZip in Win32 install release not
Monday April 24th, 2000 8:11 AM
This should be directed to Vera Horiuchi (mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org). She's in charge of the release notes.
#43 HTML3.2 not fully supported
Thursday April 20th, 2000 5:07 AM
There are some issues left that apply to the HTML3.2 (and HTML4.0) standard, which are not resolved - yet.
Just take a look at bug 678 !!!
Thursday April 20th, 2000 12:39 PM
Will libc5 be supported? what is the status on bug 11634. Looks like it hasn't been touched for a long time. http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11634
#50 Trouble with tables (still)
Friday April 21st, 2000 3:09 AM
There has been an anomaly in table width display for most of the nightly builds throughout April, and now M15.
A simple table with width="95%" and cells of th width="5%" th width="10%" th width="50%" th width="10%" displayed correctly in M14 and nightly builds through March 29, but for every nightly build I've tried since then, extra width (blank space) has been added when the same table is displayed, forcing the table to scroll horizontally. So each time I've gone back to the March 29 nightly and waited to see if the next one might change. Not so far.
I've also tried to set font size in prefs.js and user.js to 10 point for fixed and 11 for variable width. Nothing less than 12 is offered in Preferences, and nothing set in the prefs.js and user.js files to less than 12 seems to have any effect.
In NS6PR1 the table displays correctly (no extra blank space and no horizontal scrolling), but the font stays stuck at 12 point.
So what happened in M15 (and now M16) nightly builds? Why is table display so distorted?
#51 No More! (Trouble with tables)
Friday April 21st, 2000 3:30 AM
Okay, as a last desperate try, I ran the offending page through a validator yet again, and found one /font and /center nesting error had crept in at the very end of the page.
That change seems to have fixed the problem in tonight's build, so I take it all back!
For HTML4.0 Transitional, that's pretty picky!
#54 Trouble with tables (still)
Friday April 21st, 2000 11:49 PM
Sigh, I spoke too soon. The expansion problem is still there. The table adds space in the cells, causing it to spread out and scroll horizontally in both M15 and last night's build, unlike builds prior to the end of March, including NS6PR1. Back to the March 29 nightly build till this gets fixed.
#56 Overlapping elements
Sunday April 23rd, 2000 6:08 PM
Has anybody else noticed that adjacent inline elements overlap in M15? Does this only happen on Mac 8.5?
Monday April 24th, 2000 1:23 AM
Looks like LDAP will not be supported. Old news, but the question is will this affect the acceptance of Moz in the short term? Is this widely known? Has anyone been approached to help solve this?
#59 Styling PNG with CSS?
Monday April 24th, 2000 11:03 AM