MozillaZine

Web Standards Project Blasts IE

Monday April 10th, 2000

Luke writes, "The Web Standards Project posted a press release pointing out (and frowning upon) Internet Explorer 5.5's poor standards support. IE still does not fully support CSS1 or HTML 4, and has very poor support for DOM level 1 compared to Mozilla, which is currently very close to full support with only minor bugs left."

You can read more about this at XMLHack, and you can also read MS's position on standards here.


#2 Who are you kidding??

by ttielkes <t.r.tiekes@zap.a2000.nl>

Tuesday April 11th, 2000 3:49 PM

You are replying to this message

IE5.5 has no support for core XML, but when is the last time you put CDATASections, ProcessingInstructions or EntityReferences into you HTML??

On the other hand, IE5's W3C *HTML* DOM is 100% working.(and usefull!) From my own experience with Milestone 10 to 14, Netscape6 beta1 and M15 nightlies, the known DOM1 and event bugs in Mozilla are growing by the hundreds every month. As for DOM2, most DOM2 methods only have empty "placeholders".

Just one example: <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30461>

Moving over an HTML element inside (for instance) a table cell triggers an mouseout for the table cell. Constructing HTML using basic DOM1 that works flawlessly in IE5 is a nightmare in Mozilla...missing cells, missing rows, dissapearing elements, "missing" attributes. Stuff that only works in a certain order, et cetera...

I agree that IE5.5 doesn't make much progress to compliance and a "compliant" web platform.

On the other hand, most Mozilla/Netscape programmers have a completely reversed view, towards compliance that is *really* unusable and incomplete: XML

In Mozilla M15:

-I can't load XML in ECMAScript.(GET)

-I can't save XML in ECMAScript.(POST)

-I can't persist XML.(XML cookies)

-I can't get the serialized XML.

-I actually can't use the parser in any way ;-)

IE5 can do all those things. This allows me to hook up Windows clients to (mostly) non-Microsoft servers.(Debian and FreeBSD). Mozilla, in comparison, is like an editor without "Load", "Save" or "Print", because "there aren't standards for those yet".

*Come on*

If Navigator 1.x hadn't introduced cookies, we'd still be passing state in URLs.(Yuck!)

Standards complaince is good.

Not going into uncharted territory because the maps aren't ready is wrong. I want to build kick-ass webapps NOW. I want those apps to work in Mozilla. Being able to load, save, (client)persist and edit XML in any possible way is *essential*.

I keep hearing about all the great XML and Core DOM1 support in Mozilla. Well, it's time you do something usefull with it! Gimme XML! ;-)