Notes From San Francisco

Saturday April 8th, 2000

You may have noticed that the site hasn't been updated in the past few days. Kerz and I are in San Francisco, at the Anniversary party and the Developer meeting yesterday. I'll be doing up a full report upon my return, but for now, if you were at the party or the developer meeting, give us your impressions. Remember, if you were at the meeting, the conversations were open and "off the record", so use some discretion when discussing what you heard.

Well, I'm off to meet with some folks to tool around the city...

#1 Meeting pics

by gregquinn

Saturday April 8th, 2000 12:20 PM

I've put up some digital pics taken at ysterdays Dev meeting in San Jose, pretty much uncommented (sorry) at: cheers Greg

#2 Re: Meeting pics

by quake2guy

Saturday April 8th, 2000 1:06 PM

Great pics of the presentation. Wish I could've showed up though. Is there going to be any info put up about what was discussed and if anything major was decided about Mozilla's future?

#9 Re: Meeting pics

by jmissig

Saturday April 8th, 2000 11:04 PM

Pretty cool, thanks. I see jer (of poking his head in breakout1.jpg, and shaver eating a glazed doughnut in meet4.jpg. Any other important people? ;)

#10 Re: Who's who?

by phil

Saturday April 8th, 2000 11:59 PM

Somebody identify more people from these pics! For instance.. who's that standing up front in meet1.jpg ?

#11 Re: Re: Who's who?

by shiva

Sunday April 9th, 2000 6:30 AM

That's David Boswell, from Alphanumerica.


by endico

Saturday April 8th, 2000 2:08 PM

I heard from Katsuhiko Momoi that the mozilla meeting in japan went very well. There were 120 attendees, with 3 sessions and 15 panelists. It would be fun to hear more details from other attendees and to see the pictures you took. It sounds like you had fun.

#4 I hate to be a PITA, but...

by luge

Saturday April 8th, 2000 4:19 PM

What could possibly justify things at a developers conference being "off the record?" Sometimes I think Mozilla really gets Open Source, but other times, I really think that it doesn't. I see messages like this and I have to lean seriously towards "doesn't get it." The sharing of ideas is even more important than the sharing of code to the working of Open Source. Keeping things "off the record" means those ideas and opinions aren't being shared or distributed, and that means in the long term things won't work. I hope I'm overreacting but I'm worried that I'm not...

#5 So that people could speak freely

by Kovu

Saturday April 8th, 2000 4:41 PM

There was nothing stopping anyone from approaching people who spoke and asking if what they said could be quoted. It just would hamper conversation if everything anyone said was considered fair game.

#7 Explanation

by mozineAdmin

Saturday April 8th, 2000 4:55 PM

Keping things "off the record" does not mean that ideas and opinions aren't being shared and distributed - it's simply respect for people's privacy. If you wanted to quote someone, you went and asked them for a quote. It's important to realize that not everyone wants to be quoted, or quoted out of context.

That said, these discussions were very informal, and in order to promote an exchange of ideas, people had to feel free enough to express opinions without the fear of a press hound taking what they said out of context.

I made the "off the record" comment so people posting impressions of the event would show some regard for the people who were there. Remember, in this day and age, forum posts are used more and more as "source" in articles by major news organizations. I think it's important that we keep this in mind, and try to hold on to some ethical standards, especially when our comments (and the comments of others, which me may "report" in a forum) may be used by journalists who lack those same ethical standards.

#12 Another explanation..

by Waldo

Sunday April 9th, 2000 1:44 PM

My understanding was that this was to protect not the mozilla project, but the 3rd party developers who announced they were involving their products or whatever with Mozilla but hadn't made a formal announcement yet.

(Note-- one of the suprising things for me was how many people were there to discuss Mozilla's use as a "total conversion" -- using it as a base for developing standalone applications or converting a current application into a mozilla app)

The meeting was great, btw-- if no one posts a summary in the next few days, I will. W

#13 BigShu

by BigShu

Sunday April 9th, 2000 3:33 PM

Its good to see that 3rd parties are seeing the point of Mozilla. I have allways seen Mozilla's power as a base for other projects, not just as a browser. Good to hear that it wasn't just my impression of the project.

#14 Re: Another explanation..

by danielhill

Sunday April 9th, 2000 11:17 PM

"if no one posts a summary in the next few days, I will."

Please do!

#26 Ok, but..

by Waldo

Tuesday April 11th, 2000 12:00 PM

There was a good summary in yesterday's slashdot...

Read that 1st :) W

#6 Had a blast

by Kovu

Saturday April 8th, 2000 4:45 PM

Mostly it was really nice to meet everyone. It's nice to now be on a human-to-human level with those I've only ever seen as text until now. I'm sure I'm not alone in this, and that it can only help solidify the Mozilla community. It was also nice to see some issues actually hashed out. Communication on that level just isn't possible over the Net. IRC is close, but it's a different level entirely.

#8 Run, don't walk

by wheezy

Saturday April 8th, 2000 9:35 PM

to Akiko's Sushi Bar, 542 Mason St. downtown. The best sushi and conversation you'll ever find in San Francisco. Make sure Herman Chin makes your sushi, and ask him for the RCR roll.

#15 Slashdot article

by basic

Monday April 10th, 2000 11:00 AM

#16 BetaNews article

by basic

Monday April 10th, 2000 11:05 AM

Has been up for a few days...

#17 Re: Slashdot article

by basic

Monday April 10th, 2000 11:37 AM

> Cameron Price had flown down from Real Networks in Seattle to attend the conference. Identifying himself as "just a grunt software developer," he pointed out what everyone was saying: it's not just a browser, it's a set of tools.

So are we going to see some realplayers based on Moz tools?

#18 ;-Þ N/T

by basic

Monday April 10th, 2000 11:40 AM


#19 Off-topic:IEzilla? ;-Þ

by basic

Monday April 10th, 2000 11:47 AM

#27 Re: Off-topic:IEzilla? ;-Þ

by damian

Tuesday April 11th, 2000 1:44 PM

Source code for IE? Who would want it??

#20 Off-topic:IE5.5 anti-standard? ;-Þ

by basic

Monday April 10th, 2000 11:49 AM

#21 Re: Off-topic:IE5.5 anti-standard? ;-Þ

by RvR

Monday April 10th, 2000 12:34 PM

what is this "'innovating' ahead of the W3C ( in areas like Cascading Style Sheets behaviors" ???

(i'm not on Windows, neither @ work, nor @ home) (yes, i know, i'm a lucky guy ;)

#24 Re: Re: Off-topic:IE5.5 anti-standard? ;-Þ

by gerbilpower

Monday April 10th, 2000 10:01 PM

I think they are referring to adding features and support for things that the W3C has not finalized yet, yet when the W3C does finalize it it will be in a different form.

If memory serves me correctly, Communicator supported the LAYER tag before the W3C released the final specs for the similar DIV tag.


#22 RE: IE5.5 and standards

by jhewitt

Monday April 10th, 2000 2:50 PM

If you're interested in reading what the Web Standards press-release is talking about, read this article at MSDN :

It's basically a rant by Microsoft's "DHTML Dude" Michael Wallent telling the world that MS is too good for standards, and will never support them fully. Read it and weep, I know I did.

#23 bad link

by jhewitt

Monday April 10th, 2000 2:50 PM

sorry, the MZ link filter thing didn't cut the period off the end of my link. read the MSDN article here:

#25 the link...

by RvR

Tuesday April 11th, 2000 2:32 AM

i've searched for "Wallent" on MSDN site and found that... pretty disgusting... little things like that are wrecking the Web a little bit more each time... and they call it "optimizations" !