MozillaZine

Mike Shaver Leaving Netscape

Wednesday January 12th, 2000

Mike Shaver, mozilla.org evangelist, developer, and all-around good guy, is leaving Netscape for a new position. Below you will find Mike's official statement on the matter. Although the news isn't good, Mike's commitment to Mozilla still stands, and you'll still see him around. We at mozillaZine would like to wish Mike all the best in his next job, and we would like to thank him for his Mozilla work and advocacy over the past two years. Good Luck, Mike!

Mike writes, "Rumours have been circulating, and rumours are always more frightening than the truth, so I'd like to set things straight. January 31, 2000 is my last day as an employee of AOL/Netscape, and it will also mark the end of my full-time involvement with Mozilla. I've been asked by my new employer to not disclose the details of where I'm going next, but I should be able to say more in the next little while. Suffice it to say that I'm quite excited about it.

Though Mozilla will no longer be my full-time job, I will continue to participate in the community as much as possible, and my new employer is very supportive of that. I'll still be shaver@mozilla.org, and you can be sure you'll see me on #mozilla quite frequently.

It's very important to me that people don't misinterpret this as a vote of no-confidence in Mozilla or mozilla.org. I'm certain that Mozilla will be a resounding success, and I think the state of the M12 release supports my position pretty well. My time on the Mozilla team has been tremendously rewarding, and I will honestly miss my excellent co-workers -- within AOL/Netscape and beyond! -- very much."

If you have any wishes to send Mike, you can post them in the forum for this news item.


#1 Congratulations

by asa <asa@mozilla.org>

Wednesday January 12th, 2000 5:41 PM

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Congratulations Mike and thank you for the time and effort you gave to a project we all value. It was your charisma and pride in Mozilla that really solidified my commitment. I hope that your new projects are a challenging and rewarding experience, just don't let 'em interfere with your mozilla time :) But seriously, good luck and stay visible.

-asa

#2 Thanks

by kerz <jason@mozillazine.org>

Wednesday January 12th, 2000 5:44 PM

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A huge thanks goes out to Mike, as he was the one that kept Mozilla together and rocking when JWZ decided to scream his way out. Best wishes in all endevours ahead of you, and thanks for your dedication and commitment to Mozilla. Without your contributions, Mozilla would be nowhere near where it is today. Thanks.

#3 Sorry to see you leave

by Tekhir

Wednesday January 12th, 2000 8:48 PM

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You and the whole mozilla team rock. I hope you like your new job and hope to continue seeing you around #mozilla.

BTW, someone has to say this: Please don't go! Now that I got that out of the way, go have some funny. You earned it.

#4 Thanks Mike!

by Ben_Goodger

Wednesday January 12th, 2000 9:12 PM

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You (and hyatt and others) got me started hacking in the tree, and I am indebted to the help and support you've given in the past few months. I wish you all the best for your future, and look forward to seeing you around on #mozilla too.

To everyone else at Netscape, I'll be seeing you at work this Tuesday!

#5 Thanks Mike

by Waldo

Wednesday January 12th, 2000 9:31 PM

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Hey Mike--

I'm a big fan! Thanks and keep up the great work! W

#6 Thanks Mike!

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Wednesday January 12th, 2000 11:03 PM

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All my time monitoring the IRC channel and the various newsgroups and afer seeing certain names pop up frequently I know they mean somethin. Thanks Mike for all your hard work, support, and commitment!

<:3)~~

#7 Seeya

by danielhill <danielhill@hotmail.com>

Thursday January 13th, 2000 2:25 AM

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I havent talked to you, but I've seen your name popup and I know you did heaps to contribute to this wonderful project. As has everyone who has coded, downloaded builds and filed bugs.

I hope you have fun at your new job. (it isn't MSFT, is it? j/k)

#8 I wish you all the best in your new job

by RvR <mozillazine@mozillazine-fr.org>

Thursday January 13th, 2000 3:14 AM

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By the way, I noticed you were the fastest-typing-guy on #mozillazine developers conferences ;)

I remember you knew what to answer to all those tricky questions we asked... You are a great representative/advocate for Mozilla and I hope you will still have the time to do that.

#9 Festa go away

by arielb

Thursday January 13th, 2000 3:44 AM

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Shaver's a good guy-everyone knows that. But I can see the CNet headlines coming "Exodus from Netscape Continues: Is this the end for Mozilla?"

#12 Re: Festa go away

by beastie

Thursday January 13th, 2000 11:51 AM

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Actually, it's better than I expected...

"Key Mozilla developer moves on

A key figure in the group developing America Online's Web browser has announced his departure, adding to a string of defections by AOL's technologists."

But enough of that. Mike, have a great time wherever it is that you're headed, and I hope to see you around the 'net still.

#14 Didn't stop "Upside"

by BrerBear

Thursday January 13th, 2000 1:57 PM

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For a prime example of sensationalist journalism, check out <http://www.upside.com>'s brand new story: "Open-source Leaders Jump The Wall", subtitled "Leading developer Mike Shaver defects from Mozilla.org." Big surprise that it also dregs up JWZ. And quotes a fellow team member's anonymous "bulletin to the media" that this "this will really hurt". And it conveniently leaves out those parts of Mike's qutoe where he pledges to continue working on Mozilla and where he calls the project a resounding success.

#17 oh gawd!

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Thursday January 13th, 2000 8:22 PM

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That upside article makes the CNET one a zillion times better, although the CNET one wasn't as bad as I was expecting.

I have high respect for journalist (because I work for a journalism organization and written a few things myself), but this is just poor.

<:3)~~

#10 Best of luck my man!

by shabbs

Thursday January 13th, 2000 10:09 AM

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Shaver, we'll have to hoist some Single Malt in honour of your new venture. See ya in the Big Smoke.

-- Shabbs in Toronto

#11 Best of luck my man!

by shabbs

Thursday January 13th, 2000 10:14 AM

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Shaver, we'll have to hoist some Single Malt in honour of your new venture. See ya in the Big Smoke.

-- Shabbs in Toronto

#13 Good luck in the future

by dave532

Thursday January 13th, 2000 1:30 PM

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As someone who's always had an interest in the Mozilla project (although never had any time to contribute anything other than bugfixes) I've appreciated the vital work that you've done for the Mozilla project. You kept many people confident the the project is going to be a success even when the press were trying to convince everyone that the project was dead.

I'm glad that you're still going to be involved with Mozilla, if anyone had any doubts about your commitment to the project then I believe that the fact that you're still willing to work on Mozilla proves it.

Good luck in the future.

#15 Mike Shaver really is Bill Gates!

by design4use

Thursday January 13th, 2000 5:00 PM

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Seattle. In addition to no longer be available for mozilla.org MS/BG also resigned from his position as CEO for Micorsoft. Sorry just kidding. Mike you will be missed tremendously I will miss your knowledge of XUL, JavaScript and other plumbing and your always helpful advice. I am sure you are going to kick some serious butt at your next desitination. Above all: have fun. + German

#16 Good luck dude!

by petejc <pete@mozdev.org>

Thursday January 13th, 2000 6:11 PM

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I still owe you a beer!

All the best.

pete

#18 What's Mozilla?

by slack

Thursday January 13th, 2000 9:05 PM

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I heard Mozilla is Netscape without the 'overhead'; smaller, faster, cleaner. so whats the big hold up with getting a working version out? I'd think those who created Netscape ought to be able to very easily go in and rip out all the 'overhead' and pop out a fast, fresh, clean Mozilla. Whats the hold up?

#19 Re: What's Mozilla?

by asa <asa@mozilla.org>

Thursday January 13th, 2000 9:29 PM

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I think you misunderstand the nature of this large software project. Mozilla is not Netscape forced on a diet. Mozilla is an entirely new beast. The old codebase was scrapped and a new browser was built basically from the ground up. Building an application that runs on a dozen platforms, renders standards compliant HTML 4, CSS1(+ big chunks of 2) and full DOM1 is not an easy task. Mozilla is moving at a good pace and will be ready for mass consumption soon. If it is moving too slow for you then help make it better faster, contribute code, test and file bugs, write docs, etc. If you don't want to help then keep using navigator or ie or opera or whatever you use and check back on Mozilla in a few months.

#20 Don't forget

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Thursday January 13th, 2000 10:04 PM

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Don't forget they they only decided to rewrite the code from scratch only after many months of work Mozilla already did. If the decision for the rewrite came earlier, then things would be further down the line by now.

<:3)~~

#21 Please do list

by Mazen <mazen@artmagic.com>

Friday January 14th, 2000 10:31 AM

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I've been downloading and using Mozilla for the better part of a year now. While I am pleased (and impressed) with it, there are a few important features that are not yet implemented. Most users respond better to visible changes than to more abstract compliance-type features, regardless of their relative importance.

Here is my proposed list of visible features that would help convince many users, and the folks at C|Net that Mozilla is improving quickly:

- Users absolutely expect multi-page back and forward buttons. - Enlarging and reducing text is not yet implemented. So is 'Use Stylesheet' - The scroll bar is disproportionate in some windows, such as the sidebar or the message selection window - When toolbars are minimized, there is no text or icon to indicate which toolbar tab corresponds to which toolbar. - The text in the Preferences dialog runs into borders when resized. - The Composer doesn't justify text. - The Account Setup feature of the Mail reader doesn't seem to allow the editing of the user ID or password. - The newsgroup subscription option doesn't give a list of available newsgroups. - The Newsgroups menu doesn't work. - The color selectors should work.

[I'm using Windows NT and 98]

#23 Re: Please do list

by basic <_basic@yahoo.com>

Friday January 14th, 2000 10:41 AM

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Liked your suggestions, mind checking in bugzilla <http://bugzilla.mozilla.org> if these features/bugs are filed already? If not would you post your suggestions in bugzilla?

Is anyone testing Mozilla for security problems yet?

Basic

#24 Re: Re: Please do list

by gerbilpower <gerbil@ucdavis.edu>

Friday January 14th, 2000 11:12 AM

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Yes, listing it here won't do anything, gotta report them bugs!

The multiple-backs feature is planned but Ben Goodger recently said on the UI newsgroup:

"its related to the session history, and is as yet not hooked up as we lack the proper widget/consensus on how it will be done."

<:3)~~

#25 Re: Re: Re: Please do list

by basic <_basic@yahoo.com>

Friday January 14th, 2000 5:33 PM

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Speaking of bugs, have you noticed bugzilla now has a bar with often used bugzilla links at the bottom of every page (since the upgrade that happened sometime this week)? Cool! Now I can reduce the number of bugzilla links I have in my bookmark.

The keyword search is cool too!

Basic (LWP)

#22 Please do list

by Mazen <mazen@artmagic.com>

Friday January 14th, 2000 10:33 AM

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[Sorry, my previous message was sent prematurely. Please ignore it.] I've been downloading and using Mozilla for the better part of a year now. While I am pleased (and impressed) with it, there are a few important features that are not yet implemented. Most users respond better to visible changes than to more abstract compliance-type features, regardless of their relative importance.

Here is my proposed list of visible features that would help convince many users, and the folks at C|Net that Mozilla is improving quickly:

- Users absolutely expect multi-page back and forward buttons.

- Enlarging and reducing text is not yet implemented. So is 'Use Stylesheet'

- The scroll bar is disproportionate in some windows, such as the sidebar or the message selection window

- When toolbars are minimized, there is no text or icon to indicate which toolbar tab corresponds to which toolbar.

- The text in the Preferences dialog runs into borders when resized.

- The Composer doesn't justify text.

- The Account Setup feature of the Mail reader doesn't seem to allow the editing of the user ID or password.

- The newsgroup subscription option doesn't give a list of available newsgroups.

- The Newsgroups menu doesn't work.

- The color selectors should work.

I think that these features are all easy-to-medium in difficulty, but their impact will be significant.

[I'm using Windows NT and 98]

#26 Re: Please do list

by basic <_basic@yahoo.com>

Friday January 14th, 2000 5:33 PM

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Nice suggestions, but see my reply to your previous post (the one you asked us to ignore).

Basic (LWP)

#27 Re: Please do list

by lchiang <lchiang@netscape.com>

Friday January 14th, 2000 8:04 PM

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The account setup and newsgroup items mentioned are known bugs.