M12 Out!

Tuesday December 21st, 1999

M12 is now out. Get it from the FTP site. It might be a little difficult to get in. If you have a mirror site, let us know in the forum, and we'll add your info to this news item.

So far there are releases for Mac, FreeBSD, Sparc Solaris 2.7, Windows, OpenVMS and Linux.

#86 You're wrong.

by masri <>

Thursday December 30th, 1999 11:09 AM

You are replying to this message

"All the successful open source projects to date have started with a stable and unseful base laid by a small, talented, meticulous programming team, and then been able to leverage resources because people wanted to use them. Mozilla is a radically unstable base, which is why it has failed to get much outside input so far."

People "want" to use Mozilla, or else we wouldn't all be here. And as to the rest of your comment, the only real difference between Moz's development cycle and other projects is that you don't normally get to see pre-beta releases. You normally don't get the chance to comment on the progression of the core code base. Personally, I appreciate the candor. Sorry you see the open development process as a personal affront to your profession, but I believe this process will yield a product that more closely follows what the users want. With Moz, users have the opportunity to comment early on about features before the developers have spent too much time on them, which I think is a great thing.

Mozilla hasn't failed to get input because of a "radically unstable base" of code. Actually, I think if you ask Netscape engineers, they will tell you this isn't even a true statement. They have spoken before about how outside contributors to the project have introduced some real breakthrough technology in Moz. And over time, as the code base becomes more popular (and after Communicator 5 ships, giving it major distribution), more people will become interested because they will realize this is a real project, not a dead project as Microsoft-centric magazines like to portray it. It's in a lot of people's best interests if Mozilla died. Fortunately for all of us, Mozilla engineers have a very thick skin.

"...argument from authority."

Well, a lot of good information is in his article, and I believe a lot of statements he makes can be proven by looking at the examples he sites. But I guess you won't believe in the model until it's been "proven," if you can even prove such a thing.

I certainly don't see this as a religious issue. Let's say you've worked very hard on a piece of code, and somebody else out there in the world has a far more efficient method of doing the same thing (perhaps they recently did it for another project). With Moz's development cycle, there's an opportunity that the other developer will join in and help you. Under your method, that would never happen. To me, that's why open source is a better method. It's incredibly arrogant to believe you're such a better software engineer that nobody else in the entire world could possibly know more than you.

- Adam