options/preferences window

Buddy Christ · Post by **Buddy Christ** » April 24th, 2003, 7:03 pm

i was wondering if the firebird designers are planning to change the current options window. i know they want to keep it as small as possible but there should be an advanced section for powerusers. didn't they use the tools menu and the options name is to make it more like internet explorer. now they do the same as internet explorer and put an advanced section.

jareha · Post by **jareha** » April 24th, 2003, 8:54 pm

I like the idea of checkboxes. No check meaning no. Check meaning yes. None of this true, false stuff that confuses the hell out of my simple ass.

shill · Post by **shill** » April 24th, 2003, 10:42 pm

I agree. As much as I hate copying from other software, Internet Explorer has the perfect advanced tab, sort of like the "about:config" we have now, but with checkboxes and radio buttons, more easily accessible (part of Tools > Options, not something you have to find and type into the address bar), and actual descriptions instead of property names.

colfer · Post by **colfer** » April 24th, 2003, 11:21 pm

Perfect, except it doesn't tell you what is default and you can't save it to a file and it has security stuff mixed in with appearance stuff.

daihard · Post by **daihard** » April 25th, 2003, 12:13 am

I do have a few items that I'd like them to put (back) in the Options dialog box. Given that everyone has his/her own favourite menu options, however, I feel that the Firebird team made the right decision to keep the Options menu as compact as it is now.

Thumper · Post by **Thumper** » April 25th, 2003, 3:14 am

Oh for god's sake, I wish people would stop whining for an Advanced tab. Anyone who needs it is more than capable of using about:config. The second Advanced went back in, everybody would want every single option in about:config jammed into it. The only way to stop the madness is to not have a catch-all for stupid power-user stuff in the panel at all.

- Chris

Post by **alanjstr** » April 25th, 2003, 5:37 am

Why not read some of the existing threads on the topic, like http://www.mozillazine.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9762

daihard · Post by **daihard** » April 25th, 2003, 6:44 pm

thumperward wrote:Oh for god's sake, I wish people would stop whining for an Advanced tab. Anyone who needs it is more than capable of using about:config. The second Advanced went back in, everybody would want every single option in about:config jammed into it. The only way to stop the madness is to not have a catch-all for stupid power-user stuff in the panel at all.

- Chris

So basically, we share the same opinion.

iamnotniles · Post by **iamnotniles** » April 26th, 2003, 2:28 am

Well I do not. There is definatly a need for an advanced option. Preferential is nearly as faffy as about:config to use. IE is meant to be easy to use and it has one. Not including it is not pandering to the lowest common demoninator, it is discriminating against the "middle class" of computer users.

There are lots of major features that should have an option. Find as you type (which should be disabled by deafult, it mucks up accesskey), image resizing and open links in new window.

Of course everyone is going to want something else in but that is what you have to put up with. Microsoft probably get loads of emails from power users wanting more and more options, why do you think all their stuff gets so bloated?

How about having a poll option, people could say what would be useful in advanced and then the most popular things go in.

Look at IE for inspiration, M$ didn't become the way it is by doing it's own thing (well not at the start) it copied the things from other programs to make them easy to use and migrate to.

Please can we have some advanced options?

Buddy Christ · Post by **Buddy Christ** » April 26th, 2003, 6:36 am

how about making about:config easier to use. searching could be added like preferential has and the structure could be made into trees. just make sure the entire list doesn't have to be reloaded on each change like in preferential. i hate that. and like jareha says there could be checkboxes and radio buttons. descriptions would be important too.

Thumper · Post by **Thumper** » April 26th, 2003, 10:33 am

Hymagumba wrote:Well I do not. There is definatly a need for an advanced option. Preferential is nearly as faffy as about:config to use. IE is meant to be easy to use and it has one. Not including it is not pandering to the lowest common demoninator, it is discriminating against the "middle class" of computer users.

The "Advanced" panel is the problem here, not the options in it.

- Chris

iamnotniles · Post by **iamnotniles** » April 26th, 2003, 10:50 am

thumperward wrote:
Hymagumba wrote:Well I do not. There is definatly a need for an advanced option. Preferential is nearly as faffy as about:config to use. IE is meant to be easy to use and it has one. Not including it is not pandering to the lowest common demoninator, it is discriminating against the "middle class" of computer users.

The "Advanced" panel is the problem here, not the options in it.

- Chris

in what way? By the name of it? Well use another like "Miscellaneous"

boneill · Post by **boneill** » April 26th, 2003, 10:56 am

It's not a good idea to add an advanced tab to the options screen, but making about:config easier to use would be a great thing. I like the idea of grouping the items into a tree structure, so all the accessability items can be expanded and shrunk etc.

Gort · Post by **Gort** » April 26th, 2003, 11:48 am

Thing is, the advanced users can use about:config, the newbies (for lack of a better word) wouldn't want to use such options and wouldn't want to be confused by the "advanced" options in the Options box, but those in between, the experienced users, may well be put off with what appears to them to be a lack of choice in options and customisibility.

Personally, I feel that the success of this browser is more likely to come from those "middle class" users who have some experience in software to enable them to happily mess with options, but feel unsure about such esoteric things as about:config, userChrome.css, user.js, etc. Advanced users won't be too bothered themselves in messing with options that are hidden from general use, while newbies won't even think about such options, but I can see that these middle users will just think this browser is too patronising for them (even if it's not) and limited. Perceptions are powerful things, unfortunately.

It's these kind of users who many a newbie turns to, not the advanced ones (well, not as likely). For a newbie to go from IE to another browser like Firebird will require some evangelism by these middle users, and it's the middle users who will convince them that the browser isn't too complicated for them and is good to use. However, with limited options which can only be found through detailed work, this browser is likely to make these middle users look for something more "flexible" for their use.

So, I do think that there needs to be some sort of relatively easy way to get to advanced options within the Options box. The idea that this will only encourage a fight for what "advanced" options are to be included doesn't wash too much. With that logic, you might as well kill off all options, because there'll always be a fight to include different options, even in the simplified options box, with some wanting one thing and others wanting something else. There'll always be arguments over what options to include, but to deliberately make it too esoteric for a wide and important userbase does strike me as the wrong approach.

Saying that, on a personal basis, I'm fine with the current set-up, but, then again, I feel confident in messing with *.css, *.js, about:config, etc.

iamnotniles · Post by **iamnotniles** » April 26th, 2003, 12:01 pm

Gort wrote:Thing is, the advanced users can use about:config, the newbies (for lack of a better word) wouldn't want to use such options and wouldn't want to be confused by the "advanced" options in the Options box, but those in between, the experienced users, may well be put off with what appears to them to be a lack of choice in options and customisibility.

Personally, I feel that the success of this browser is more likely to come from those "middle class" users who have some experience in software to enable them to happily mess with options, but feel unsure about such esoteric things as about:config, userChrome.css, user.js, etc. Advanced users won't be too bothered themselves in messing with options that are hidden from general use, while newbies won't even think about such options, but I can see that these middle users will just think this browser is too patronising for them (even if it's not) and limited. Perceptions are powerful things, unfortunately.

It's these kind of users who many a newbie turns to, not the advanced ones (well, not as likely). For a newbie to go from IE to another browser like Firebird will require some evangelism by these middle users, and it's the middle users who will convince them that the browser isn't too complicated for them and is good to use. However, with limited options which can only be found through detailed work, this browser is likely to make these middle users look for something more "flexible" for their use.

So, I do think that there needs to be some sort of relatively easy way to get to advanced options within the Options box. The idea that this will only encourage a fight for what "advanced" options are to be included doesn't wash too much. With that logic, you might as well kill off all options, because there'll always be a fight to include different options, even in the simplified options box, with some wanting one thing and others wanting something else. There'll always be arguments over what options to include, but to deliberately make it too esoteric for a wide and important userbase does strike me as the wrong approach.

Saying that, on a personal basis, I'm fine with the current set-up, but, then again, I feel confident in messing with *.css, *.js, about:config, etc.

I agree entirely with this post.

On a similar topic, why does the options panel remember the last place you were in insetad of resetting like most other applications? I'm not bothered by this I'm just wondering why.